"The Alamo"s Status? (3 Viewers)

[Doug Bull]

Atfree wrote.... just watch final attack, and hear Alfred Newman's incredible Entr' Acte, FInale, and Exit Music with the Ken Darby Singers (who did similar great work three years later in 'How the West Was Won' - that was a beautiful restoration on blu-ray!), but it's still 202 glorious minutes of film making. So what are you waiting for?

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Dimitri Tiomkin wrote the score for "The Alamo" not Alfred Newman, and Ken Darby was not involved.

 

[JoeDoakes]

Mark Brown: with only a 65% probability of creating a viable print, and a budget of perhaps $2m (a very uneducated guess), and how many months, if not years, of renewed restoration, how many copies of the finished product do you think MGM (or whomever) could possibly sell, but more to the point, how many copies would they have to sell to recoup their investment?

Face it, Mark, there isn't a very large market for this film. That probably explains why companies like "Twilight Time" only release their films in a very limited release (for example, "Khartoum" is only 3000 copies). So, just for a giggle or two, if they restored and released "The Alamo" on blu-ray at $50 a copy, they're going to make a whopping $150,000! And at $50 a copy, they would have to sell 40k copies just to recoup an estimated $2m budget. How likely is that?

Yes, it's all about preserving an important cinematic artifact, but in this very critical time when we can't even get unemployment extended, and school lunches are being cut, who would possibly "green light" such a questionable project? The clock is ticking, the elements are degrading as we speak, so if you want this to happen, you better find a sympathetic and deep-pocketed non-profit ASAP.

And one last point, with RAH's sterling reputation and credentials, don't you think if anyone could have found the funding, he's your guy? And from the tone of his few posts on this forum, I think he's lost interest in the topic and would rather move on to films that can still be salvaged and restored before they reach their expiration date. Sorry that I can't be more optimistic.

My understanding is that, at one point, RAH had the funding for the restoration. He may still have it. The money for the restoration is not the issue. The issue is MGM's decision to let the film rot versus doing something about it. Check the other Alamo thread if you want more details.

 

[sonomatom1]

Arrgh! My bad... I was thinking Newman when I should have been writing Tiomkin -- thanks for the correction (I'm so embarrassed...).

 

[LouA]

My understanding is that, at one point, RAH had the funding for the restoration. He may still have it. The money for the restoration is not the issue. The issue is MGM's decision to let the film rot versus doing something about it. Check the other Alamo thread if you want more details.

It's difficult , actually almost impossible , to understand MGM's motivation here.

 

[Mike Frezon]

While the feeling of helplessness is palpable in this thread, there are industry insiders here - maybe a kidnapping of the film elements is in order.

Does anyone have the Jason Statham's phone number? He's be perfect for the job.

 

[Charles Smith]

I was thinking of a RIFIFI style break-in...

 

[cwilli]

Maybe there will be an eleventh hour rescue for this timeless epic. Didn't we go through this same scenario with IMMMMW about 5 years ago? It was also in the advanced stages of decomposition. And lo and behold, Criterion stepped in to save the day. I think if we keep this post alive someone, maybe the right person, in the industry will see this thread and make a miracle happen.

 

[Brian McP]

Actually, that might not such a bad plot for a low budget indie film.....

Instead of one of those art heist movies (I've seen loads of them), how about a team of Expendable-type movie geeks raid a studio film archive to steal the rapidly decomposing film elements from a long forgotten masterpiece on behalf of the movie's elderly director (now working in the back of a McDonald's) and his stellar cast on their last legs (the he-man star of the movie now doing voice work, currently playing the lead character in the cartoon series version of "Hello Kitty", the leading lady playing a variety of elder patients/bag ladies on an endless cycle of medical and crime investigation tv shows)

One can also say it was 'inspired by true events' (well, The Alamo happened, right? The movie and the aftermath 54 years later certainly has happened)

Naaah, some studio executive would put this into turnaround anyway....

 

[Doug Bull]

Actually, that might not such a bad plot for a low budget indie film.....

Instead of one of those art heist movies (I've seen loads of them), how about a team of Expendable-type movie geeks raid a studio film archive to steal the rapidly decomposing film elements from a long forgotten masterpiece on behalf of the movie's elderly director (now working in the back of a McDonald's) and his stellar cast on their last legs (the he-man star of the movie now doing voice work, currently playing the lead character in the cartoon series version of "Hello Kitty", the leading lady playing a variety of elder patients/bag ladies on an endless cycle of medical and crime investigation tv shows)

One can also say it was 'inspired by true events' (well, The Alamo happened, right? The movie and the aftermath 54 years later certainly has happened)

Will it include the obligatory nude sex scene?

 

[Robert Harris]

Several people have raised the concept of going to outside sources for funding. MGM has no interest in the concept, even if the film is lost.Cost vs reward is relatively simple. This is not about home video sales.RAH

 

[Rick Thompson]

Several people have raised the concept of going to outside sources for funding. MGM has no interest in the concept, even if the film is lost.Cost vs reward is relatively simple. This is not about home video sales.RAH

I guess it's because the film is not revisionist and sufficiently PC. Guess it needed a section where disillusioned defenders realize too late that Santa Ana was right all along, and the Texans were agents of European-descended white imperialists who have tricked them into fighting for the moneyed one percent.

 

[Jari K]

"Several people have raised the concept of going to outside sources for funding. MGM has no interest in the concept, even if the film is lost."Mr Harris, are you saying that the "money" for restoration is there (or at least close), but MGM doesn't give permission to start the project?

 

[David_B_K]

It is starting to sound as if the loss of The Alamo is not due to neglect, but rather, to willfulness.

 

[LouA]

Look at all of the responses that this post has generated in just a few short days . That should be proof that there's lot's of interest in this film , and plenty of people willing to spend money on a Road Show Bluray .

 

[Dr Griffin]

Several people have raised the concept of going to outside sources for funding. MGM has no interest in the concept, even if the film is lost.Cost vs reward is relatively simple. This is not about home video sales.RAH

Soon, "Remember The Alamo", will have a totally different meaning.

 

[JoHud]

It is starting to sound as if the loss of The Alamo is not due to neglect, but rather, to willfulness.

It is willful neglect, and this is just one film in their library. Who knows how many more obscure titles are being blocked from attempts at outside intervention/rescue?

Also, does Fox have a role in this? Do they have any influence in regards to what gets newly remasters and which elements are used?

 

[rsmithjr]

Look at all of the responses that this post has generated in just a few short days . That should be proof that there's lot's of interest in this film , and plenty of people willing to spend money on a Road Show Bluray .

As a frequent poster here, I certainly wish that interest here reflected general consumer interest.

However, it seems unlikely that there is much interest in The Alamo at this point. MGM doubtless has numbers on the previous video releases and models that predict how many units of a remastered version they might expect to sell. As much as I would like to contest that kind of reasoning on preservationist grounds, I suspect that MGM has enough data to substantiate their decisions.

If you look at Amazon, The Alamo (short version) is available in their instant catalog, and also on a double-feature DVD with The Magnificent Seven. Clearly, they think this film is not going to generate much more revenue. If you like the movie and will tolerate the short version, go for it.

Also, as to the roadshow version, whatever we may think about it, it long ago acquired the reputation of being too long and bloated. We would be lucky to see a DVD or streamer of the roadshow version made from the existing 480i element but I don't see it. For one thing, the people who are interested in the roadshow version would be infuriated by not having a pristine restoration or at least a Mad-World treatment on Blu-ray. You figure.

I apologize for repeating myself but, hey, time to move on. The LD of the roadshow version is still selling for $9.99 on EBay with 0 bids.

 

[rsmithjr]

Actually, that might not such a bad plot for a low budget indie film.....

Instead of one of those art heist movies (I've seen loads of them), how about a team of Expendable-type movie geeks raid a studio film archive to steal the rapidly decomposing film elements from a long forgotten masterpiece on behalf of the movie's elderly director (now working in the back of a McDonald's) and his stellar cast on their last legs (the he-man star of the movie now doing voice work, currently playing the lead character in the cartoon series version of "Hello Kitty", the leading lady playing a variety of elder patients/bag ladies on an endless cycle of medical and crime investigation tv shows)

One can also say it was 'inspired by true events' (well, The Alamo happened, right? The movie and the aftermath 54 years later certainly has happened)

Naaah, some studio executive would put this into turnaround anyway....

Probably more marketable than an Alamo restoration would be.

 

[sonomatom1]

rsmithjr : I totally agree with all of your comments. In fact, I said just about the same thing in an earlier post (#179). The point you didn't make is that most of the people who want to see this film restored belong to the "aging fanboy" demographic (myself included) that have made something almost mythic out of "The Alamo".

I no longer believe there is indifference, bad faith (but neglect, surely, from earlier decades on almost a cosmic scale) on the part of MGM/Sony - it just doesn't make sense to invest so much time and money for a restoration that would only sell a few hundred copies. I would love to know how Criterion decides what films to restore and market. I imagine they do a pretty exhaustive consumer and critical analysis to see if they can sell a minimum number of copies to sustain a title in their catalog (look at Twilight Time - they restrict their (re)issues to only 3000 copies, but how many titles actually sell out?).

I purchased a DVD transfer of the "Roadshow" LD and I'm very pleased. A blu-ray release would be nice (but so would being 18 again...). I'd like to focus on seeing reissues/restorations of other films that are moulding away somewhere (including, hopefully, some titles that I've really enjoyed for decades: "Lion in Winter", "Robin and Marian", "A Man for all Seasons", "The Vikings", "In Harm's Way", "Seven Days in May", Branagh's "Henry V', etc., etc.), but the clock is ticking on those films too; it is time to move on.

 

[JoeDoakes]

rsmithjr : I totally agree with all of your comments. In fact, I said just about the same thing in an earlier post (#179). The point you didn't make is that most of the people who want to see this film restored belong to the "aging fanboy" demographic (myself included) that have made something almost mythic out of "The Alamo".

I no longer believe there is indifference, bad faith (but neglect from earlier decades on almost a cosmic scale) on the part of MGM/Sony - it just doesn't make sense to invest so much time and money for a restoration that would only sell a few hundred copies. I would love to know how Criterion decides what films to restore and market. I imagine they do a pretty exhaustive consumer and critical analysis to see if they can sell a minimum number of copies to sustain a title in their catalog (look at Twilight Time - they restrict their (re)issues to only 3000 copies, but I don't think they ever sell out a title).

I purchased a DVD transfer of the "Roadshow" LD and I'm very pleased. A blu-ray release would be nice (but so would being 18 again...). I'd like to focus on seeing reissues/restorations of some films that I've really enjoyed for decades: "Lion in Winter", "Robin and Marian", "A Man for all Seasons", "The Vikings", "In Harm's Way", "Seven Days in May", etc., etc., but the clock is ticking on those films too; it's time to move on.

Bizarre. Some have ears but hear not.