Terminator 1 & 2 (1 Viewer)

[FoxyMulder]

Can you reveal if James Cameron viewed and gave his blessing to Terminator 2: Skynet Edition and is there any hope they will do a brand new 4K film scan and re-issue the movie on Blu ray within the next few years. ?

 

[cineMANIAC]

I was talking facts not a wish
http://www.columbiahouse.com/pages/nm/product/productDetail.jsp?skuId=1076275435&ds=8

Never mind.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I currently own the following Terminator Movies in HD:
Terminator (Uncompressed PCM 5.1) Bluray
For a low budget film at the time I think it looks good and the sound is most likely as good as this one is going to get.
Terminator 2: Judgement Day (DTS-ES Lossy) Bluray
The video looks good and the sound is better than DD but I am seriously considering upgrading this one to the Skynet Edition just for the DTS-HD MA lossless track. How is the video transfer on the Skynet Edition?
Terminator 3: Rise Of The Machines (Dolby Digital Plus) HD-DVD
The video transfer seems to be good and the Dolby Digital Plus audio is average IMHO. I will not buy the Bluray version till this title has a lossless audio track! Terminator 3 on Bluray with the old Dolby Digital track is just not acceptable!
Terminator 4: Salvation (DTS-HD Master Audio) Bluray
This will be one of the next movies I buy on Bluray! If Terminator 3 and 2 came out with DTS-HD MA or even in Dolby True HD I would buy them over again. I would even repurchase the entire franchise in a set if they all had a lossless track included!!!
I would love some incite on why Terminator 3 has not yet received a lossless audio track on Bluray? My next order may just end up being Terminator 2 Skynet Edition and Terminator 4 Salvation, just need to decide what to do with the current two copies. My neighbors may just end up getting my current versions of T2.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by Dave Moritz /t/274676/terminator-1-2/660#post_3945325
I currently own the following Terminator Movies in HD:
Terminator (Uncompressed PCM 5.1) Bluray
For a low budget film at the time I think it looks good and the sound is most likely as good as this one is going to get.
Terminator 2: Judgement Day (DTS-ES Lossy) Bluray
The video looks good and the sound is better than DD but I am seriously considering upgrading this one to the Skynet Edition just for the DTS-HD MA lossless track. How is the video transfer on the Skynet Edition?

They need to redo the soundtracks on both Terminator films, they are NOT anywhere near their full potential and have been altered in a negative way from their original soundtracks.

 

[DVDvision]

The transfert for T1 isn't up to current standarts (it was even even back then, the whites are all blown out).

I think there's a european version of T3 with better sound.

The Skynet edition is fine, but it will all be essentially rendered archive disc, once T2 is transfered to 3D, Titanic style, and a new 4K transfert is struck

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by HDvision /t/274676/terminator-1-2/660#post_3945340
The Skynet edition is fine, but it will all be essentially rendered archive disc, once T2 is transfered to 3D, Titanic style, and a new 4K transfert is struck

Not to my eyes or ears, it needs a new 4K film scan and a new master struck and they need to go back to the original soundtrack, the remix is not good.

 

[Van Ling]

In answer to Malcolm's earlier question, as far as I understand it back in the day, no releases of any of JC's films can be contractually released without using a JC-approved transfer master and audio mix. This means that any new transfers that are used will have been sent up the approval chain at Lightstorm to JC and cannot be used until an official approval is given. This may mean making various adjustments and changes until approved, or it may mean never getting an approval.
This ultimately means that only the most recent approved transfers can be used without a lot of flak from Lightstorm, as it should be. However, that means that if no new transfers are made and approved, then ANY releases moving forward can ONLY use the existing approved transfers, no matter how old they may be... this is one reason why The Abyss has never been released in anamorphic; there has never been an approved HD transfer as of yet. Also, note that the original video transfer of The Abyss in 1989 is far inferior (and incorrectly formatted at 1.91) and wildly different-looking from the 1992 Special Edition transfer... yet both were personally approved by JC at the time... this exemplifies either acceptance and accommodation of the limitations of the current technology, and/or the evolving eyes of both filmmakers and film viewers over time.
It's been interesting to note that in my experience, you kind of need to retransfer the film from the film elements every few years if you want to take advantage of advances in transfer technology and format resolution, but this is expensive and goes against the point of studios trying to be efficient with their resources; when they spend a lot of time and money on a transfer and bend over backwards to get a filmmaker's approval, they expect to be able to use that transfer for as many years as possible before having to shell out and do it again. Also, some filmmakers do not want to be having to re-approve transfers every few years of the same films over and over, and in fact will likely have one of two reactions: 1) "I already fully approved a transfer that is exactly what I want, so just use it, or match it EXACTLY in the new media format(s), so I don't have to do it again!" or 2) "Good lord! I can't believe I had approved that previous transfer! What was I thinking? We need to do a new one that looks completely different and better... I'll take a look at it once I've finished my current project and have time to review..." The former leads to "interpretive" changes or not taking advantage of the newer technology, and the latter can sometimes lead to no new anything for years, during which the studio can only use the prior "approved" version even if the director hates it, because he cannot enjoin the studio (who probably owns the film) from exploiting their assets.
The long and short of it is that the T2 Skynet Edition was made using the existing approved HD transfer, one that was made and approved in 2003 for the T2 Extreme Edition DVD, as I recall. We did do a bunch of dirt cleanups on it for the Skynet Edition, and I personally fixed (using morphs on my computer) a pair of image jumps in the SE version that were the result of lost negative frames in some shot extensions, but that was it. And the audio was from the approved 5.1 remixes that were created up at Skywalker Sound by Gary Rydstrom in 2000 for the Ultimate T2 DVD, released in 2001.
So if things are going to be done right, Lightstorm should be considering doing a new 7.1 (or 11.1!) remix of all versions of the film, as well as a 4K transfer from the original film elements... and maybe even convert it to 3D like they did for Titanic. I have to emphasize that I have no idea if they are in fact going to do any of this... the person to ask would be Geoff Burdick, my successor at Lightstorm who took over my old job when I left almost two decades ago. And while I continued to work on disc releases of the older JC films for many years even after I left, simply because I reckon I knew the films best at the time, I don't profess to be an authority on what Lightstorm is doing currently with them.
As for whether you like or dislike the remixes, it is entirely up to your interpretation... but it's pretty hard to say "they're not as good as the original release mix" unless you have an actual copy of the original mix in your possession to compare it with. If you are using the "original" video release as a guide, that's an altered mix already; the theatrical mixes were often remixed to account for stereo downconversion issues and other factors. If you are going by what you remember from hearing it in the theatre as a kid (or even in a current screening of an old print in a revival house), bear in mind that you are hearing a nondigital print, since neither Dolby Digital nor DTS existed when T2 came out, and there is NO available CDS capability anywhere as far as I know. And memory is notoriously unreliable and very subjective... so like whatever you like, but know that pretty much any released disc contains sound and picture that is ostensibly approved by the filmmaker... although whether they have reviewed and approved the final ENCODES for the specific disc release, or the final product, may still be in question.
Hope this helps,
V

 

[FoxyMulder]

I'd just like to add that when i say the remix is not good that's probably a bit harsh, i really mean i am a bit of a purist, i know Terminator 2 had a digital mix for the CDS format which never really took off and as a purist i would always like to see the original theatrical mix put on a Blu ray disc, if it's mono then include it, if it's a 2 channel mix put that on, they can of course include any re-mixes, the space is there for that, i do hope that something special is being re-considered for both Terminator movies because as you say transfer technology moves on, i have read news that someone has been working on the original Terminator but nothing specific, maybe that one will come out in the next year or so, as for Terminator 2, it's crying out for a new film scan and i hope we don't have to wait until 2016.

It's interesting that you say the final encodes may or may not be approved by the director, i have always wondered about that, especially after viewing Jurassic Park and not being 100% happy with it, i tend to think they need to approve every stage because that final encode could alter things in a negative way.

Thanks for your reply though, it's very enlightening and confirms a few things to me.

 

[Dave Moritz]

I currently have the Bluray release with the DTS-ES audio track on it which I have always felt was better than the Dolby Digital mix. Although I still felt that there should be a better mix and over all sound for that movie. I will be picking up the Skynet edition with the DTS-HD MA lossless track on it. Not sure how much better the first film can get audio wise do the the film being a budget movie from what I understand. I am happy with the DTS-HD MA track for Terminator Salvation and that for me doesn't need an upgrade. My main soar spot is Terminator 3 only getting a Dolby Digital track on the Bluray Edition. I have the HD-DVD of Terminator 3 with the Dolby Digital Plus which is an improvement over Dolby Digital but I still want to see a Dolby True HD or DTS-HD MA track come with a re released version of T3. And even though I said the DD+ was an improvement I am still not happy with it as I feel it can be much better in lossless. But if T3 doesn't have lossless audio on Bluray then I will just keep my HD-DVD version till it does.

 

[DVDvision]

One thing for certain: that crunch when the endo-skeleton crushes the human skull at the beginning of T2, never sounded as good as the laserdisc version did. Same goes for the "invitation" explosion in True Lies. However, I'm optimistic that any new remaster will bring that huge sound back.

 

[cineMANIAC]

Mr Ling what can you tell us about that mysterious Terminator Anthology set Best Buy is releasing next week? A set collecting all four films sounds tempting but if it's just a repackage of existing material then I simply can't justify spending any more money on something I have just to get a pretty box.

 

[FoxyMulder]

I recently bought the HD DVD edition of Terminator 2, the film grain is more intact, important for preserving the film look and even though i suspect it comes from the same master as the Skynet edition i must say its far better, not perfect by any means but its better. Good encode too and using less space to achieve it. ( bitrate isn't everything )

cineMANIAC; I think its just a re-packaging of whats already out there.

 

[supersonic395]

Some people over at Blu-ray forums have received their sets and have said it's old disc repackaged.
However this is a trailer for the new upcoming UK blu-ray (1st Oct), which is said to have the new remaster

The US get this on Sept 11th, and if Mr Van Ling is out there, could you confirm if this is the remaster you were working on? (It looks like a new remaster imo).

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by supersonic395 /t/274676/terminator-1-2/660#post_3967610
However this is a trailer for the new upcoming UK blu-ray (1st Oct), which is said to have the new remaster

I really can't tell anything about the quality from a youtube trailer, their compression makes it impossible to know whether it looks good or poor.

 

[Van Ling]

Folks: I was working on special features, and not on the remaster, so I'm afraid I can't tell you if this is a new transfer/remaster or not. My understanding is that Lightstorm was doing a full 4K scan of the film negative with Lowry Digital as a remastering source, but as I have not been involved with the project for several years now, I can only wait to see, like everyone else!
On the subject of Terminator compilation sets, bear in mind that ANY compilation set will likely be just a repackage of the existing individual discs, since pretty much each movie in the series is owned by a completely different entity... MGM, Studio Canal, Warner Bros... so any one of them (or a third party) is going to pay through the nose for licensing all of the titles, and would never allow (nor spend the money for) the creation of new special features if it were not on their OWN version of the title. The studios also would stipulate that all they would deliver to the compilation licensee would be essentially finished existing discs with no additional authoring or revisions... they would likely never just give over a transfer master and let another party encode and build their own disc (though never say never in this business).
Hope this helps,
V
PS: For anyone who's interested, my most recent Blu-ray menu work was on The Hunger Games for Lionsgate, and I put in a couple of interesting Easter Eggs in the menus for the fans...

 

[DVDvision]

Thanks for the update. People who have received the US 4 films box set, confirm the T1 disc is the old disc from 2006. The UK trailer obviously shows some modified footage, color wise, from the old master. I'm wondering if this UK release is not like the early european release of T1 on DVD, a "version 1.0" of the master, while awaiting for the US issue sometimes in the next two years. (2014 is just right there).

 

[Geoff_D]

Yeah, they added some cool little goodies to the US version like Cameron's commentary on the deleted scenes. Wouldn't surprise me if Europe got a "1.0" version again, with a slightly more refined product to follow in the US. Still, as long as the opening text card isn't FUCKING PLAYER GENERATED ('scuse my French) then it's already got a leg-up on the Euro "1.0" DVD.

 

[supersonic395]

Hi everyone.
Wreck, over at HidefNinja who worked on the artwork for this release and confirmed that it's using a new master (it's the supposed 4K Lowry one. Of course we'll know for sure once it hits in under 2 weeks).
Anyhow, he's posted the specs of the UK disc and it's as follows:
SOUND - English 5.1 DTS HD-MA, Spanish 5.1 DD, French 5.1 DTS, Japanese 5.1 DTS, Portugese 2.0 DD stereo, Thai 2.0 DD Stereo
So no mono unfortunately.
It's unknown whether the 5.1 DTS-HD track is the same as the 2001 mix, (it most likely is, but we'll find out soon) or whether it's a new mix (wishful thinking).

 

[supersonic395]

Hi everyone.
Wreck, over at HidefNinja who worked on the artwork for this release and confirmed that it's using a new master (it's the supposed 4K Lowry one. Of course we'll know for sure once it hits in under 2 weeks).
Anyhow, he's posted the specs of the UK disc and it's as follows:
SOUND - English 5.1 DTS HD-MA, Spanish 5.1 DD, French 5.1 DTS, Japanese 5.1 DTS, Portugese 2.0 DD stereo, Thai 2.0 DD Stereo
So no mono unfortunately.
It's unknown whether the 5.1 DTS-HD track is the same as the 2001 mix, (it most likely is, but we'll find out soon) or whether it's a new mix (wishful thinking).

 

[DVDvision]

The trailer for the new version is up on youtube in 1080p now.

Here is two frames comparison. It's not a totally exact match I maybe one frame off, but it's the best I could do to match it.

New master youtube 1080p grab

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/vlcsnap2012092119h00m55.png/


Current Blu-ray 1080p grab

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/vlcsnap2012092119h04m53.png/