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PMF

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When the film opens, but we’re not talking about that right now. Lucas didn’t care whether we liked how he revised his original films.
Whatever direction we may go, can either of us actually know for certain whether a filmmaker does or doesn't care what the established reviewers are writing in regards to the current output or product they oversee?

Tell you what, I’ve just ordered American Graffiti solely to go your way and to receptively see it for its attribute that you have enjoyed. It’ll be fun to see if our visual tastes are a match on this topic or not. As it is, your Film Noir suggestions have certainly benefitted my collection.
 

Robert Crawford

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Whatever direction we may go, can either of us actually know for certain whether a filmmaker does or doesn't care what the established reviewers are writing in regards to the current output or product they oversee?

Tell you what, I’ve just ordered American Graffiti solely to go your way and to receptively see it for its attribute that you have enjoyed. It’ll be fun to see if our visual tastes are a match on this topic or not. As it is, your Film Noir suggestions have certainly benefitted my collection.
I’m just expressing my opinion.
 
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PMF

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I’m just expressing my opinion.
I know. Nonetheless, you have inspired me to pick up a 4K/UHD of American Graffiti, anyway. You do have solid views and great takes on things; which I find to be an integral part, if not a trademark, of HTF.
 
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Ronald Epstein

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I know. Nonetheless, you have inspired me to pick up a 4K/UHD of American Graffiti, anyway. You do have solid views and great takes on things, which are an integral part, if not a trademark, of HTF.

I’ll second that!
 

sbjork

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All that I'll add is that while I agree with much of the previous posts, at this point, I really do disagree that Lucas cares at all about negative consumer feedback of any kind. His history over the last three decades belies that. He may well be aware of the negative criticism regarding the prequel trilogy, but that's only resulted in him doubling down. It's like he's trolling his own fans at this point.

Which is why I'm dubious not so much about making complaints about the American Graffiti UHD online, but more about the tone of much of it. There's a not-so-fine line between complaints and outrage, and the former can potentially have a positive effect while the latter is more likely to result in studios putting their fingers in their metaphorical ears. Damned near everybody gets outraged about damned near everything these days (internet popular culture in general, not jus this small niche of it) so it all becomes noise at a certain point. I think that the more gentle yet firm and well-reasoned criticisms have a far better chance of being heard than the weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth.

At least, that's true in general. I still maintain that Lucas couldn't care less what any of us think, and in the case of a title like American Graffiti, Universal will do exactly what he he tells them to do regardless of how the criticism is being made. He says jump, they ask how high.
 

Worth

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On the plus side, this is saving me some money. I won’t feel the least bit tempted to buy this or the upcoming James Cameron discs.
 

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All that I'll add is that while I agree with much of the previous posts, at this point, I really do disagree that Lucas cares at all about negative consumer feedback of any kind.
As much as I'd like to own the versions of Star Wars or THX-1138 or AG that I first saw, I respect that Lucas doesn't care what other people think. They're the way that he wants and that's apparently all that he's concerned about. I find it admirable that he could have made even more money from home video formats if he had kept putting out the OOT as individual releases from the SEs but he didn't do it because he clearly prefers the revised versions.
 

PMF

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As much as I'd like to own the versions of Star Wars or THX-1138 or AG that I first saw, I respect that Lucas doesn't care what other people think. They're the way that he wants and that's apparently all that he's concerned about. I find it admirable that he could have made even more money from home video formats if he had kept putting out the OOT as individual releases from the SEs but he didn't do it because he clearly prefers the revised versions.
I only wish that all versions could be made available, as had other classic films, in which packages included the full array of various cuts, running times or multiple ratios. Nothing suffers and it’s also quite interesting from both an educational, archival and historical point of view.

But like I’ve said, I’m grateful for the accesses that we already have.
 
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sbjork

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As much as I'd like to own the versions of Star Wars or THX-1138 or AG that I first saw, I respect that Lucas doesn't care what other people think. They're the way that he wants and that's apparently all that he's concerned about. I find it admirable that he could have made even more money from home video formats if he had kept putting out the OOT as individual releases from the SEs but he didn't do it because he clearly prefers the revised versions.
Fair enough, but we're talking about someone here he hasn't needed another penny for many, many years. I'm a bit less impressed by people who stick to their guns when they don't even remember what it's like to be hungry.

"Principles only mean something when you stick to them when it's inconvenient."

-- Rod Lurie, The Contender
 

TravisR

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Fair enough, but we're talking about someone here he hasn't needed another penny for many, many years. I'm a bit less impressed by people who stick to their guns when they don't even remember what it's like to be hungry.

"Principles only mean something when you stick to them when it's inconvenient."

-- Rod Lurie, The Contender
Fair point but it's not like all the money they'd ever need is enough to stop many people from trying to get even more.
 

FoxyMulder

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That's the problem with internet outrage; it vastly overestimates its own importance. Personally, I'm not thrilled with what was done to American Graffiti, but George Lucas gives exactly zero ****s about what I think. Or anybody else on the internet, for that matter. He's spent decades demonstrating conclusively how little that he cares about what his own fans think. So while I may not be thrilled with the results in this case, I'm going to expend exactly zero energy on outrage about it. I suggest that others do the same.
I think ultimately all that matters is how well something sells, no one cares what we say in forums.

i just watched My Fair Lady on UHD tonight, fabulous image quality, quite possibly the best I have seen on this format and the documentary on it was fascinating too, so much damage to the original film elements, now they used computer technology to fix it, but you can use that technology to do proper restoration work and you can also use it to create something else, James Cameron prefers something else.

I was actually a little under whelmed by Lawrence of Arabia on UHD disc, not sure, I just thought some detail was missing, by that I mean I expected more detail on that one.
 

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When I started my career, I had the opportunity to work alongside a key creative talent behind Disney’s Snow White. In preparation for a new Snow White project, we rewatched the 1937 film together. My coworker commented all the way through on what could be improved and even pointing out a mistake he personally made. He relived the horror of working all night to mask his accident, rendering it undetectable for filming the following morning.
While listening to his emotional spiel, it was obvious that he was unable to fully experience the film from the innocent perspective of an audience...especially that of an impressionable child.
The creative expressions he revisited were entirely different from the joys of music and laughter, tears and excitement that I brought to the screening. He was consumed with reminders of difficult creative challenges that may or may not have met his high expectations.
My point is, that we who come to film favorites with audience perspective, cannot fully appreciate what motivates a creator's mind who fought deadlines, budgets and technical compromises to bring a dream to reality. Dreams that in their minds will forever have flaws and a burning need for improvement.
 
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FoxyMulder

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My point is, that we who come to film favorites with audience perspective, cannot fully appreciate what motivates a creator's mind who fought deadlines, budgets and technical compromises to bring a dream to reality. Dreams that in their minds will forever have flaws and a burning need for improvement.
I understand what you say but I think some directors go too far, they so wish that the film stock had been less grainy, that the picture could have looked so sharp that they are changing things dramatically and more often than not for the worse.

I mean take American Graffiti, if you remove the film grain you are removing the fine detail, if you are releasing this on UHD then people expect fine detail, so what’s the point of releasing a version which seems to have been filmed in smoothavision?

The other side of the coin is the James Cameron approach, degrain and use the latest computer upsampling techniques with machine learning to create something less like the original, too sharp might be the words to use, but too sharp in an artificial way, perhaps bringing out details in faces that are not desirable, not all the time of course, 90% could look stunning for some people but then you get some shots which look just plain odd or wrong, I get it, it’s machine learning, it will improve in years to come but tell me what’s wrong with just a new 4K scan and clean up and HDR pass and just release the movie, they are not that old, the film grain on Titanic or True Lies was never thick so I don’t understand his reasons.
 

Indy Guy

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FoxyMulder said...but tell me what’s wrong with just a new 4K scan and clean up and HDR pass and just release the movie, they are not that old, the film grain on Titanic or True Lies was never thick so I don’t understand his reasons.

I tried to show why a creator may see the results of their work very differently than some members of the audience do. He has the right to change that look to more closely match his personal expectations.
 

Ross Gowland

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Personally, I think restoration is good but revisionism is bad. Once a film has been released then the creator should loses the moral (but of course not legal) right to withdraw that version.

Special editions should always be accompanied by the original.
 

Robert Crawford

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I’m not seeing the things you stated about the faces. Perhaps I was too much into the movie to notice those issues on my screen. With that stated, I’m out of this thread.
Early this morning while it was still dark outside, I watched this 4K/UHD for the second time in its entirety. This time I concentrated my attention on the actors faces and I'm still not seeing the smeary mess that some have stated in this thread. Perhaps it's because I'm sitting at my normal seating position away from my 65" OLED, but I thought the video presentation was excellent. IMO, it's not like a Patton first Blu-ray release nor The Longest Day Blu-ray situation.
 

titch

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Early this morning while it was still dark outside, I watched this 4K/UHD for the second time in its entirety. This time I concentrated my attention on the actors faces and I'm still not seeing the smeary mess that some have stated in this thread. Perhaps it's because I'm sitting at my normal seating position away from my 65" OLED, but I thought the video presentation was excellent. IMO, it's not like a Patton first Blu-ray release nor The Longest Day Blu-ray situation.
I don't think the picture is smeary - there just isn't much detail, as the grain reduction has removed most of it. Similar to Terminator 2.
 

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