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Robert Harris

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It’s just a holdover from the film days, similar to the way digital editing programs have “bins” that your raw footage is kept in - in the film days, editors literally had giant bins that they unedited film strips were hung inside.

The way to adjust the look of each individual shot to match different takes together in the film days was to alter the length of time each was exposed to the printer lights when making prints, hence, timing.
And the combination of colors.
 

Lee-c

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Saw another review stating that the color timing is now less teal/greenish on the 4K Blu-ray than on the previous Blu-ray. So that's good to hear.
 

JoshZ

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I watched the 4K disc last night. I had initially only intended to check out a few minutes, but I got so caught up in the movie again I wound up staying up late to watch the whole SE.

The almost totally grainless look for the movie is a little weird, but I'll be honest, I didn't hate it. The A.I. enhancement looks a hell of a lot better on this movie than it does on True Lies - probably just because this started out with a better master. I could easily be fooled into believing this was true 4K.

I finished the movie very late and didn't have time to do a color comparison with the older Blu-ray. I will need to make time for that. I'm not sure at this moment whether it's a new color or HDR grade or not. The movie is still very teal-and-orange, but something about the experience of watching it in this new grainless state affects perception of brightness and color as well. I'm not actually sure that it's any brighter than the older Blu-ray master, but it just seems brighter without grain in the image.

Likewise, despite definitely noticing a lot of teal, I wasn't really as bothered by the colors here as I remember being when I first watched the original Blu-ray back in 2010. Whether any of the teal has actually been dialed back in the new master, or my brain was just fooled into believing it has been, I'm not sure yet. I need to do some back-and-forth comparisons.
 

JoshZ

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Well, I've now tried to do a color comparison between the 4K disc and the old Alien Anthology Blu-ray. Frustratingly, the question of whether this is a new color grade or not still seems a little murky to me. My inclination right at this moment is to say that it's not. Colors are very similar overall, with tons of teal-and-orange everywhere.

However, watching the movie with no grain and with the detail boosted makes everything seem more vivid, including colors. While there's still tons of teal everywhere, other colors that might have gotten swallowed by it (or by the grain) now stand out more. They were always there, but not as clear until now. That gives the impression that the movie has a wider range of colors than just teal and orange, which is how it felt when I watched the Blu-ray back in 2010.

I think perhaps the grain having been tinged with teal may have played a part in that. When you remove that grain, it feels like you've removed a big teal blanket from the movie, even though many parts of the image beneath the grain are still very teal.
 

Alan Tully

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604 relies. 43,000+ views.

We seem to be inching slowly toward some sort of record for a generic disc review. I can tell you with comfort, that John Adams never had these numbers.
Ha, you still have to go some to equal blu-ray.com - 825952 views & 8132 replies. It looks like most of the complainers have bought the disc, so Disney can't be too unhappy. :)
 

JoshZ

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I finished up my review of the Aliens disc over the weekend, and tried to come to grips with the color issue. After more comparisons, I'm feeling quite certain that even the 4K disc has the same color grade that we've seen since 2010, but the A.I. grain removal and detail enhancement just make some of the colors seem more vivid. Colors that were always in the transfer but might have gotten swallowed by the teal-and-orange or the grain now stand out a little more.

I still can't do 4K HDR screenshots, but I did a bunch of comparisons between the 2010 and 2024 Blu-rays to show that those two discs are identical for color as far as I can tell. I also did some comparisons against the older THX DVD to show how radically Cameron has changed the colors in this movie over the years.
 

Nelson Au

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I finally got all three of the new Cameron 4K blu rays recently. So with all the “comments” and controversy of these new releases, I was ready to sit down and see them with my own eyes. (James Earl Jones voice in my head)

I chose to start with Aliens the Director’s Cut, but was close to doing True Lies first. And I did go through the first 13 pages of this thread after seeing the 4K disc. So I wasn’t aware that the previous blu ray of Alien’s had some work done to try to remove grain.

i watched on a 83” Sony A90J OLED and the player is the Oppo 205 at a seated distance of 112 inches. My panel was professionally calibrated. My impression is, wow. I remember when I first saw the blu ray, the most impressive image is the cigarette smoke that was rising from Ridley’s cigarette that she had in her fingers in her tiny little apartment. That was an impressive looking image. On the 4K, it didn’t seem that great anymore. But I figure the impressive parts will be when they get to LV-426 and the marines start to enter Hadley’s Hope and go down under the atmosphere generator. I was impressed as the image looks like a layer of smoke was removed and the sharpness was returned after that smoky haze was gone. There’s a shot of Vasquez and two other marines shot from a low angle in the corridor as the camera is moving back as they walk into the corridor, it looks so sharp and it pops. It’s like looking at a new version of the same film. The scene when the marines are under the atmosphere plant was just as impressive. And the miniature work is looking great too when Ripley drives the vehicle down the corridors to rescue the marines. I feel like I’m there seeing the models on the set. And one more thing, the HDR, if it was applied as I didn‘t check, really made the dark shots pop.

But in the end, I was sucked into the movie and I watched it all the way through. I was more into the narrative after I got over how good it looks. After I finished, I did compare those scenes I described above with the last blu ray. It is as I described, like the layer of smoke was removed and the clarity was restored. I can see the grittiness the old blu ray provides from the “grain” as the marines enter the corridors and that’s not a bad look. There was nothing wrong with the last blu ray. So it’s cool we have two versions we can enjoy now. I’m curious now to see how the included blu ray looks. If it’s made off the same source as the 4K disc, it should look pretty good!
 

ScottRE

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i watched on a 83” Sony A90J OLED and the player is the Oppo 205 at a seated distance of 112 inches. My panel was professionally calibrated. My impression is, wow.
I watched on a 55" Vizio with a $150 Sony 4K player at a seated distance of, I dunno, like 5 feet? My panel was futzed with until I thought it looked good enough. And my impression is also wow. :laugh: The clarity and DNR without removal of detail is massively impressive. For what Cameron had in mind, it's amazing and it's an interesting variation.

Two versions of which none is what it was supposed to be.
Well, respectfully, what it's supposed to be is whatever Cameron wants. It's his work. What it isn't is a recreation of the 35mm film experience we had in 1986, and I agree, that's a damned shame. However, to be honest, I don't remember it at this point (I may look for the laserdisc eventually). I am satisfied with the Blu Ray, but I understand the early DVD was more like the original release. But then you sacrifice resolution due to format.

Now, if someone out there has a 4k scan (or any HD scan) of the original 35mm print, pops, scratches and all, I'd love to see it. I enjoy having those for comparisons and "time warp" movie nights.

As someone who prefers the film experience, I would love a version with all the grain and smoke in the original.
 

TonyD

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Not to me. What he did to True Lies he might as well made it purple.
But it’s fine because it’s what he did.
 

Konstantinos

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Well, respectfully, what it's supposed to be is whatever Cameron wants. It's his work.
Well, when I used the word "supposed", it means how it should be by the general accepted standards of film restoration/remastering which is a film with grain and as close as it can be to the original color palette.
DNR, as shown from various reviews of mostly old movies, is not generally an accepted technique (why is it in this instance, is anyone's guess although it has been explained a couple of times).
Even Disney has gone back and "corrected" their past sins by offering wonderful restorations of Snow-white and Cinderella in their respective UHDs.
 

ScottRE

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Well, when I used the word "supposed", it means how it should be by the general accepted standards of film restoration/remastering which is a film with grain and as close as it can be to the original color palette.
And if this was really being pushed as a "restoration" I would agree, but it's not. It's more like a 4K enhanced edition. So this 4K version is what he wanted and, as such, is what the release is supposed to be.

It's not necessarily what I wanted, or you, or a great many other fans. However, film enthusiasts aren't the full audience and most people who watch it on their giant TV on disc or, most likely, streaming, will probably love it because of the clarity and detail.

Let's use another example: Star Trek the original series as seen today. New effects, tweaked color palette, enhanced soundtrack, reduced grain. Even the Blu Ray "original sounds and effects'" versions aren't really accurate. However, the great majority of fans don't care, love it, and say "the producers think it's great!" I personally want a different version closer to 1966, but this is what they did to make it palatable to today's TVs and audiences.

I know, I'm probably splitting hairs, and I 100% agree, I would have preferred a 4K remaster with only the amount of cleanup to repair damage and restoring the correct color, etc. To this day, I watch the Star Wars trilogy via unrestored scans of 35mm films. But this looks a dozen times better than the massive DNR scrubbing of the original Star Trek films before their 4K releases (which, other than player generated subtitles, are exactly right).
 

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So if the movie was turned orange that’s okay because it’s what he wants?

But he wouldn't do that. Nobody would. So the question is irrelevant.

Cameron did recolor all of his movies teal-and-orange.

Also, before you say "nobody would," I think perhaps you should remember the example of William Friedkin tinting The French Connection purple. Filmmakers lose their marbles and do weird things to their old movies all the time.
 

Josh Steinberg

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I really don’t understand why we’re all still stuck in this semantics argument since the digital release of these titles since December.

It’s possible to hold two opposing thoughts in one’s head at the same time. Two things can be true at the same time. Here, those two things are that 1) the disc is an accurate representation of how the filmmaker wishes this work to be presented today and 2) that some fans of the film disapprove of the filmmaker’s wishes.

That’s it. That’s all there is here.

And yet on and on it goes and has been going for months and months. Again I ask, what is the endgame here? What is the goal?

If the goal is to have the filmmaker change his mind, that’s extremely unlikely to happen.

If the goal is to have the studio take away control of the film’s presentation from the filmmaker and to reissue it in a manner that is contrary to the filmmaker’s wishes, that’s even less likely to happen.

If the goal is to have HTF officials pressure the studio and/or the filmmaker into redoing these titles, HTF doesn’t have that kind of power.

If the goal is to force HTF reviewers to give these releases a bad review, it’s HTF’s mission statement that HTF supports the right of filmmakers to have their work presented as they wish. HTF is not going to take a position contrary to its mission statement in this regard. However, our reviewers on these titles have been very transparent about the fact that these new presentations are not accurate representations of the original theatrical releases from decades ago, while still evaluating the discs against what they are intended to be rather than against what they might have wished they were.

So again, what’s the point here? Is it simply to not allow other members to have differing opinions about whether they like it or not? Because that’s all that this line of discussion seems to be doing. Every time someone sees the new disc or stream for the first time and comes back with an impression that’s even remotely positive, a select few seem to come back to basically tell those members that they’re wrong to like it. Over and over. For months.
 

TonyD

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I really don’t understand why we’re all still stuck in this semantics argument since the digital release of these titles since December.

It’s possible to hold two opposing thoughts in one’s head at the same time. Two things can be true at the same time. Here, those two things are that 1) the disc is an accurate representation of how the filmmaker wishes this work to be presented today and 2) that some fans of the film disapprove of the filmmaker’s wishes.

That’s it. That’s all there is here.

And yet on and on it goes and has been going for months and months. Again I ask, what is the endgame here? What is the goal?

If the goal is to have the filmmaker change his mind, that’s extremely unlikely to happen.

If the goal is to have the studio take away control of the film’s presentation from the filmmaker and to reissue it in a manner that is contrary to the filmmaker’s wishes, that’s even less likely to happen.

If the goal is to have HTF officials pressure the studio and/or the filmmaker into redoing these titles, HTF doesn’t have that kind of power.

If the goal is to force HTF reviewers to give these releases a bad review, it’s HTF’s mission statement that HTF supports the right of filmmakers to have their work presented as they wish. HTF is not going to take a position contrary to its mission statement in this regard. However, our reviewers on these titles have been very transparent about the fact that these new presentations are not accurate representations of the original theatrical releases from decades ago, while still evaluating the discs against what they are intended to be rather than against what they might have wished they were.

So again, what’s the point here? Is it simply to not allow other members to have differing opinions about whether they like it or not? Because that’s all that this line of discussion seems to be doing. Every time someone sees the new disc or stream for the first time and comes back with an impression that’s even remotely positive, a select few seem to come back to basically tell those members that they’re wrong to like it. Over and over. For months.

And those on the side that these are good are telling the others they are wrong because this is what the director chose to do.
So what should we do, never talk about these movies again.

Just wait Until T1 hits the market.
He turned everything chartreuse but it’s fine because that’s what he wanted.
 

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