NFL Off-season 2019 (1 Viewer)

[Jeffrey D]

If it's any consolation, Robert, my team (the Steelers} handled the situation about as poorly as possible. Just two years after making Brown the highest paid player at his position, they let him manipulate them into trading him away for peanuts and are taking a massive salary cap hit in the process. They should have taken a tougher stance with him from the beginning instead of letting the situation get so out of hand. Brown was under contract for a couple more years, so he really didn't have much leverage until Pittsburgh gave it to him.

Well put, Scott. Tomlin and/or Big Ben displayed no leadership over the team, and let chaos reign.
I know some Steelers fans wouldn’t mind seeing another head coach there- do you think Tomlin is the right guy, or has done a good job? I’m not so sure.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Well put, Scott. Tomlin and/or Big Ben displayed no leadership over the team, and let chaos reign.
I know some Steelers fans wouldn’t mind seeing another head coach there- do you think Tomlin is the right guy, or has done a good job? I’m not so sure.

Jeffrey,

I was pretty vocal in my opinions on Tomlin in the NFL season thread, and my opinion hasn't changed at all. I think he's been coasting on past success the past few years, and the team is wasting the last few years of their championship window with Big Ben at QB. Tomlin's coaching this past season was the worst I can remember seeing in Pittsburgh -- and I go all the way back to the beginning of the Chuck Noll era. Tomlin doesn't make in-game adjustments, his choices as to when to call for an instant replay challenge are bizarre, and he continues to throw the same tired old game plans at teams that just don't work. This season he took a team that was challenging for a first round playoff bye and turned it into a non-playoff team. I think it's time for the Steelers to move on.

That being said, I know it's highly unlikely that the team will get rid of Tomlin quickly, considering the franchise's history. It's been 50 years since the Rooneys fired a coach. Noll, Cowher and Tomlin are the only men to coach the team during the last half-century.

 

[Jeffrey D]

Someone on another site brought up an interesting point, talking about the Steelers need to get better on defense. I know their good young LB Shazier getting injured set them back, but since S Palamalu left, they just haven’t been as good defensively. Why is this? GM can’t figure it out, hesitant to spend money on that side of the ball maybe?

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Someone on another site brought up an interesting point, talking about the Steelers need to get better on defense. I know their good young LB Shazier getting injured set them back, but since S Palamalu left, they just haven’t been as good defensively. Why is this? GM can’t figure it out, hesitant to spend money on that side of the ball maybe?

The Steelers poor defense the past few years can be attributed to several things. There has been a drop in talent, and losing Shazier did hurt. However, the team no longer plays the aggressive, blitzing style that they did under their former long time defensive coordinator Dick Lebeau. Instead they sit back in a zone defense with little pressure on the QB and get picked apart. Tom Brady salivates at the thought of playing against this Steelers defense.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

My Raiders are an awful team so of course, Gruden would trade a 3rd and 5th round picks for Brown and then give him a new contract.

I swear, both of my NFL teams, the Giants and Raiders are total dumpster fires. The NBA team I root for, the Knicks are a dumpster fire. Only the Yankees give me some credence of respectability with a GM and owner that actually knows what they're doing.

Thank God, I'm at the point of my life in which sports have less importance with my enjoyment in life. At least, that's what I tell myself.

While Mr. Big Chest is a super annoying human being, he still is a very good football player and the Raiders landed him for nearly peanuts. They desperately needed a WR and now they have one of the league's best. The extra money they gave him means Big Chest is costing them the same money the Chiefs are doling out to have Sammy Watkins...um, is there anybody that would take Watkins over Brown at the same cost?

I thought the Raiders might overpay or come in with a big offer for Brown because they could...but they didn't. They only gave up a third and fifth round pick for him. This is a giant win for the Raiders. I also think Carr and Brown are likely to get along with each other so that's a pretty big thing. Carr was lobbying for this trade. Brown is a weirdo, Gruden is a weirdo, this is perfect Raider football. Easily this is the best move Gruden has made because it does not seem nuts and he got a bargain. Brown is an upgrade over Cooper, he got a first round pick from the Cowboys for Cooper, so Gruden now has ditched Cooper and added Brown and a first round pick at the cost of a third and a fifth and about 30 million bucks.

WIN RAIDERS.

I agree with Scott, here. All the stink on this deal is on the Steelers. They totally lost control of this situation and ended up having to give Big Chest away and eat 21million bucks on a guy they actually wanted to keep and had under contract. They pretty much made every wrong move you could make on this. They told Big Chest and his agent that they would not be permitted to shop his services themselves. Bad move. That likely would have landed the Steelers better compensation and they would not have looked so stupid in botching Brown's departure.

To me the Steelers are looking worse all the time in terms of handling their team. Mike Tomlin is supposed to be a players coach, that's his big thing. Supposedly guys want to play for him and like him. Well, Tomlin has become the coach that big name players can't wait to get away from. So, much so that they will just walk away to do so. Plus the Steelers while they had the dream team of Ben, Bell, and Brown got nowhere with that. Plus all three of the killer B's have badmouthed Tomlin. I think the Steelers should have replaced Tomlin to start. Not that it is all Mike's fault but his coaching has been shamefully bad the last three years or so and now players are basically walking away from the team while under contract.

You want to talk dumpster fire...the Steelers are a giant pillar of stinky thick smoke.

Sure, let's see how Gruden handles this draft and what other moves he makes as the Raiders need a bunch of help but this Brown deal now combined with the Cooper trade is looking like Gruden might actually have done some real good with the Raiders.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I doubt the Steelers trade Brown to either Cleveland or New England, unless one of them bowls them over with an offer too good to turn down (which is definitely not the Patriots MO). The Raiders have been stockpiling draft picks, so they could definitely make an attractive offer, and they could use a #1 WR since trading away Amari Cooper last season. Gruden's completely unpredictable, so who knows what he's thinking (assuming he is actually thinking ).

Yes, I don't think the Steelers would have ever traded Big Chest to the Browns...plus it turned out Big Chest was going to make himself difficult to move. I am thinking that Belichick would certainly have swooped in at the price the Raiders got Brown for but you may be right that knowing that the Patriots are a regular post season rival that may also not have been a place they wanted to ship him to. It would be pretty lousy having Big Chest catching a pass from Brady for a playoff win over the Steelers.

Rumors are the Patriots are bargain shopping for veteran WRs again so while they asked about guys like Beckham and Big Chest they seem to be thinking more along the lines of lower tier players than that. I don't think Belichick and the Patriots would have ever dreamed they could have got Brown for a 3 and a 5.

 

[Jeffrey D]

The Patriots would have likely traded the picks the Raiders gave up for Brown, but it’s not their MO to commit that much money and that many years to someone other than Brady, especially a guy with a reputation of Brown’s.

 

[Malcolm R]

Pats are still hoping Josh Gordon will be ready to go this season, so they're looking for more of a supplement than a star.

 

[Jeffrey D]

Gordon will likely be suspended for the upcoming season, and I doubt the Patriots would take him back if he wasn’t suspended anyway.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

The Patriots would have likely traded the picks the Raiders gave up for Brown, but it’s not their MO to commit that much money and that many years to someone other than Brady, especially a guy with a reputation of Brown’s.

Yes, teams all over the league would have done the deal the Raiders did...but the Raiders appear to be the only team that was calling over and over trying to get Big Chest. Other teams backed away and Big Chest started talking money and squashing deals he did not like, so teams decided to hold off on making offers. This is usually when the Patriots will call but in this case I think they thought the compensation to the Steelers would still be a number one pick.

The Raiders won this through sheer tenacity.

Don't think the Patriots won't do something because what Belichick has shown is he will rent a player and he has chased big name WRs in the past. The thing he likes to do is the thing people don't expect him to do. So, I think he was serious about looking at Beckham and Big Chest. I think if the Patriots landed either of them they probably would only want to rent them for a season or two at the most then ship them out again. They brought in Brandin Cooks who fit in well on the team and actually loved playing for the Patriots. He did everything they asked, had a good season, and wanted to stay with the Patriots. They shipped him right out to the Rams. So, a one season rental. The Patriots sure could have used him in 2018 but off he went.

The thing about Belichick is he seems to be just assembling teams for a season. He decides what he thinks the team needs to do to win games that year and brings in and lets go players according to his plan. Then he installs that plan through the first 6 weeks of the season so during the last 12 weeks and the playoffs he is pretty much assured of being there in the AFC championship game.

This is the thing that makes Belichick different. He does not care about having the best player he cares only about having a player that can and will execute the plan he has. The Patriots defense looked like it would be in rebuilding mode last season and yet, his defense won him the Super Bowl and totally smoked the Rams...with no amazing players or stars on that defense and some older players that were badly slowing down.

Did the Patriots try to keep one of their best defensive players from last season in Trey Flowers, who is only 25? Nope, they told the rest of the league take him if you want him.

So, basically we will see what Belichick assembles this season and I am sure whatever he does put together will be specific to whatever plan he has dreamed up for 2019.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

So, the Lions brought in three ex-Patriots (Flowers, Amendola, and CB Justin Coleman) plus added Steelers TE Jesse James.

The Jaguars just paid huge amounts of money for Nick Foles who is rated the 33rd best QB in the NFL when throwing more than 5 yards downfield. Sad fact, nobody else even put in a bid on Foles. Only two other teams seemed to have lukewarm interest, the Redskins (took Keenum instead getting the same QB at a lot less money) and Dolphins. The Dolphins seemed interested momentarily only because they are going to let go Tannehill (who actually may end up being Sam Darnold's back-up as Gase still loves him it seems) but they only were interested in Foles as a place holder. The Jaguars are actually bringing in Foles with the thought that he will take them to the Super Bowl.

The Dolphins may get in on trading for Josh Rosen which would be a far better investment than Foles. However, the Giants and Patriots are also looking at Rosen. So, we'll see. Plus I am still not sure if the Cardinals are serious about trading him or are blowing smoke about drafting Kyler Murray to see if somebody like the Raiders will trade up to the 1 spot to take him.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

So, the Lions brought in three ex-Patriots (Flowers, Amendola, and CB Justin Coleman) plus added Steelers TE Jesse James.

I think the Lions are also trying to sign the Patriots water boy.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I think the Lions are also trying to sign the Patriots water boy.

If they are that water boy is going to make a lot of money.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Yes, teams all over the league would have done the deal the Raiders did...but the Raiders appear to be the only team that was calling over and over trying to get Big Chest. Other teams backed away and Big Chest started talking money and squashing deals he did not like, so teams decided to hold off on making offers. This is usually when the Patriots will call but in this case I think they thought the compensation to the Steelers would still be a number one pick.

The Raiders won this through sheer tenacity.

Don't think the Patriots won't do something because what Belichick has shown is he will rent a player and he has chased big name WRs in the past. The thing he likes to do is the thing people don't expect him to do. So, I think he was serious about looking at Beckham and Big Chest. I think if the Patriots landed either of them they probably would only want to rent them for a season or two at the most then ship them out again. They brought in Brandin Cooks who fit in well on the team and actually loved playing for the Patriots. He did everything they asked, had a good season, and wanted to stay with the Patriots. They shipped him right out to the Rams. So, a one season rental. The Patriots sure could have used him in 2018 but off he went.

The thing about Belichick is he seems to be just assembling teams for a season. He decides what he thinks the team needs to do to win games that year and brings in and lets go players according to his plan. Then he installs that plan through the first 6 weeks of the season so during the last 12 weeks and the playoffs he is pretty much assured of being there in the AFC championship game.

This is the thing that makes Belichick different. He does not care about having the best player he cares only about having a player that can and will execute the plan he has. The Patriots defense looked like it would be in rebuilding mode last season and yet, his defense won him the Super Bowl and totally smoked the Rams...with no amazing players or stars on that defense and some older players that were badly slowing down.

Did the Patriots try to keep one of their best defensive players from last season in Trey Flowers, who is only 25? Nope, they told the rest of the league take him if you want him.

So, basically we will see what Belichick assembles this season and I am sure whatever he does put together will be specific to whatever plan he has dreamed up for 2019.

When Gruden shows me he can build a team that can be a playoff competitor then I'll give him credit. He lucked into that Brown trade due to abnormal circumstances. Brown is a great receiver, but he's still a "me" player that I didn't want on my team as he's a cancer in the locker room. Yesterday, he overpays big-time for that tackle from New England. Maybe, he becomes a building block on an improved offensive line next season or maybe, he was coached up last season by one of the best offensive line coaches in the business.

We'll see what happens as Gruden shapes his roster and what he does in the draft about six weeks from now.

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

an

Yesterday, he overpays big-time for that tackle from New England. Maybe, he becomes a building block on an improved offensive line next season or maybe, he was coached up last season by one of the best offensive line coaches in the business.

I agree with you. If the Raiders wanted to offer a lot of money to someone it probably should have been Dante Scarnecchia because he was likely the one responsible for Trent Brown going from under achiever to solid tackle for the Patriots. Scarnecchia is one of Belichick's secret weapons. When he retired the Patriots line went in the tank. It actually got so bad people thought Brady might retire due to the beating he was going to take. Then Belichick lured Scarnecchia back and with basically the same group of underperforming players he turned the line around in a single season. Pretty much amazing.

I guess the Raiders can hope that Brown takes whatever he learned from Scarnecchia with him.

Yes, I think you are right, people are looking at the Cooper trade in a different way because Gruden has now ended up with Mr. Big Chest...but when Gruden traded Cooper he had no idea he would be able to land Big Chest at a bargain price.

Gruden claimed his first priority in Oakland was to add linemen. Well, in his first draft he basically addressed both the offensive and defensive fronts with his first 4 picks. He took 2 offensive linemen in his first draft and now he has brought in Brown. So, in this way he is addressing the line as he said he would. He claimed that the reason he dumped Cooper was he had a crap work ethic. He claimed the reason he shipped off Mack was because he felt even with Mack the Raiders defense would still be no better than mediocre.

It appears he is sticking with Carr. I think, if we take Gruden at his word for what he is trying to do, he will be drafting defense in this draft. He has no need to chase Murray and can wait for a better QB draft next year if he wants to draft a QB that challenges Carr.

I think signing Mr. Big Chest was a good idea because they had nothing at WR and they were not going to draft a WR that could change things the way Big Chest will. Plus in a draft that has some good defensive talent I think Gruden wants to spend his draft picks on defense. He is in a division with the Chiefs, a very explosive offense, and the Chargers, a good offense. So, adding defense in the draft makes some sense.

Will Big Chest be happy with Carr throwing to him? I think if Carr plays well and throws to him a lot, yes. If Carr stumbles and Big Chest's numbers tank...well...then you have a guy that is going to be very unpleasant in the locker room.

 

[Malcolm R]

I think the Lions are also trying to sign the Patriots water boy.

It's funny how all these teams think they can just sign former Patriots players (and coaches) and somehow magically transform their team into a contender. Has any player formerly with the Patriots matched or bettered their performance after leaving NE?

 

[Malcolm R]

Gordon will likely be suspended for the upcoming season, and I doubt the Patriots would take him back if he wasn’t suspended anyway.

Looks like they're willing to pay Gordon over $2 million for 2019:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...nders-on-josh-gordon-jonathan-jones/#comments

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

Looks like they're willing to pay Gordon over $2 million for 2019:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...nders-on-josh-gordon-jonathan-jones/#comments

It seems unlikely they will reinstate Gordon in 2019 and it also seems that Gordon himself is not even sure if he wants to continue to play football. He does seem to have a much larger priority in getting his life in order. The money the Patriots are paying seems to be to hold on to the rights to Gordon so that if another team wanted to sign him they would get compensation...which I think would be a second round draft choice.

 

[Jeffrey D]

I doubt Gordon would command a 2nd round pick these days (this is the most restrained comment I have on this issue, and similar issues involving other athletes).

 

[Winston T. Boogie]

I doubt Gordon would command a 2nd round pick these days (this is the most restrained comment I have on this issue, and similar issues involving other athletes).

Yes, pretty much if the compensation is a second round pick nobody would attempt to sign Gordon because he is not worth giving that up. So, basically with that tender the Patriots own him in the event he decides to return or if he ever can.