A Few Words About A few words about…™ The Pirate – in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[TJPC]

In Canada, in many areas, home delivery, (except for larger packages), was replaced by a “Community mailbox” some time ago. These are on posts and reminiscent of a bank of apartment mail boxes with keys. Our box is located about a block away from our house and you have to walk outside to get to it. It’s not that big of a deal in the summer, although you often walk down and find you didn’t get any mail, or got useless crap.

Winter is another matter. The mail is delivered at around 6:00 p.m. At that time, it is pitch black outside. I at 69, feel also, that I am I broken hip away from a nursing home! Our solution is to pretend the mail is delivered Tuesday to Saturday. That way we can go to the box at noon if we want to and I can also see obstacles in my way.

 

[Rob W]

I am lucky enough to have a brick-and-mortar store within a 7 minute walk that stocks all the Warner Archive releases ( although a week or two behind street date as they are all imports since WA don't distribute in Canada). I picked up both The Pirate and Libelled Lady a couple of weeks ago . I only wish I liked The Pirate more than I did . The transfer is spectacular but Gene Kelly's hammy performance really hurt the film for me - something I've never felt before with him. I know the character he plays is supposed to be a ham actor, but he played it the same in both the on and off-stage scenes in the film, leaving most of his scenes coming off as a feature-length version of The Duelling Cavalier. (and yes, I know the entire film is most definitely tongue in cheek. )

 

[PMF]

I am lucky enough to have a brick-and-mortar store within a 7 minute walk that stocks all the Warner Archive releases [...]

Now that’s a 7-minute walk that I could really dig. My 7-minute walk only gets me a pack of cigs, a pack of gum and a half-gallon of milk. Sounds like Heaven, with no postage or delivery required.

 

[Rob W]

Now that’s a 7-minute walk that I could really dig. My 7-minute walk only gets me a pack of cigs, a pack of gum and a half-gallon of milk. Sounds like Heaven, with no postage or delivery required.

I used mail order as much as anyone, although lately I'm trying to throw as much business as possible to struggling neighborhood locations like this one that I used to take for granted.

 

[B-ROLL]

I don't see much hope for better USPS service in the near future. The postmaster general is in his position for a while. As I understand it, he cannot be easily fired. If I am misinformed, please correct my misunderstanding.

Sadly, according to this Slate article ... you are correct,

I have the Pirate on DVD as part of a set ...

i'll get it on blu-ray if the Price is Right ...

 

[Harold Chasen]

B-Roll, I have that box set too. If you intend to watch The Pirate again, get the Blu-Ray beforehand, even if it's not on sale. Mine arrived on yesterday (December 5), and the difference between the DVD and Blu-Ray is unbelievable. While the improvement in sharpness and color was something I expected, the degree of the improvements is still quite startling.

In addition, they spent a fortune and great deal of care on the costumes in this movie, not only on the stars but everyone else too. I had always been aware of this before, but seeing the Blu-Ray was like seeing this aspect of the movie for the first time. For instance, Judy Garland's dress in the final sequence isn't one color - it's various shades of that color in different parts of the dress. If you know to look for it, you can sort of see a bit of the effect on the DVD; on the Blu-Ray, it really pops. They actually did that "different shades of a color" thing on many of the outfits (including Walter Slezak's outfit in the same sequence) - you could make a drinking game out of spotting them!

 

[B-ROLL]

B-Roll, I have that box set too. If you intend to watch The Pirate again, get the Blu-Ray beforehand, even if it's not on sale. Mine arrived on yesterday (December 5), and the difference between the DVD and Blu-Ray is unbelievable. While the improvement in sharpness and color was something I expected, the degree of the improvements is still quite startling.

In addition, they spent a fortune and great deal of care on the costumes in this movie, not only on the stars but everyone else too. I had always been aware of this before, but seeing the Blu-Ray was like seeing this aspect of the movie for the first time. For instance, Judy Garland's dress in the final sequence isn't one color - it's various shades of that color in different parts of the dress. If you know to look for it, you can sort of see a bit of the effect on the DVD; on the Blu-Ray, it really pops. They actually did that "different shades of a color" thing on many of the outfits (including Walter Slezak's outfit in the same sequence) - you could make a drinking game out of spotting them!

If money were no object ... The Pirate would have been mine release day ... At present, I have to be careful where each penny goes ... The Essential Fellini set IS Essential ... I admit I don't like The Pirate as much as many do ... but I don't despise it the way many do either ...

Of course some of this is tempered by the fact that the first time I heard/saw "Be A Clown" it was on Land of the Giants ...

With Kurt Kaznar and Heather Young ...

 

[roxy1927]

Back in stock on Amazon Prime for $17.99 with arrival by Dec 17.

 

[Harold Chasen]

At present, I have to be careful where each penny goes

I certainly understand and I apologize if my reply seemed insensitive. I just wanted to emphasize that this isn't one of those "yeah the Blu-Ray looks better, but the DVD is still OK" situations. It's one of those "the DVD never looked good, bu once you've seen the Blu-Ray, the DVD looks like unwatchable dog crap" situations.

 

[lark144]

I certainly understand and I apologize if my reply seemed insensitive. I just wanted to emphasize that this isn't one of those "yeah the Blu-Ray looks better, but the DVD is still OK" situations. It's one of those "the DVD never looked good, bu once you've seen the Blu-Ray, the DVD looks like unwatchable dog crap" situations.

It just isn't that the DVD looks like dog crap.

"The Pirate" as a Technicolor film, and as the highest example of creative expression in dance and set design and mise en scene as exposed on film by the Freed unit, is as essential as Fellini.

As a film, "The Pirate" was very influential on Fellini, both in terms of color, as well as theme.

But it's more than that. The essence, and artistry of this film is in the use of color allied with camera movement and choreography, more dazzling and more "essential" as well as influential, than in any other film by Minnelli.

And that aspect of the film, the color, and the way it's reflected and built upon, in the costumes and sets and lighting, isn't present in the DVD at all. None of that is there. What makes "The Pirate" a great film is completely missing from the DVD.

This Blu-Ray is a total revelation. It's a completely different film. What seems heavy and inept on the DVD, comes across as a pure delight on the Blu-Ray.

So if you've only watched the DVD, and never saw "The Pirate" in a theater, you've never actually seen "The Pirate". or at least, the way Minnelli and Gene Kelly intended the film to be seen.

And if you care about Vincente Minnelli and the MGM musical, "The Pirate" is the peak, in terms of color and movement and dance. This is as good as it gets, as far as pure color and imagery and movement is concerned.

Gene Kelly, as a dancer, was never better. But it's not just his movements. It's the way those movements are reflected and reinforced in the color of his costumes and the sets and the way both those movements and colors build as his dance builds is what makes this film so great. And none of that is on the DVD. You can see how it's set up on the DVD, to have the potential to do that, but all those colors and how they move and transform as Gene Kelly moves aren't on the DVD.

So it isn't just that the Blu-Ray of "The Pirate" has better color or registration or whatever.

So if you consider "The Pirate" worth watching--I DO--I would recommend buying the Blu-Ray.

 

[david hare]

The costume design by Tom Keogh was enormously expensive (over 5 grand an outfit for the women) from designs by Barbara Karinska but clearly the wardrobe was made to MInnelli's detailed specifications. Some of the color blendings in them are totally painterly. In fact they remind me of Matisse. Gladys Cooper's entrance is done with a gob smacking outfit in deep emerald green, gold and black in fine filigree. Judy's costumes run the gamut from pink with orange trim to mutating shades of purple and blue with red and black as signatures for her "Hot scenes" (Probably also designed for the "Voodoo:" which that bastard Mayer cut from the movie. This transfer brings them all to life in a way I have never, ever seen before. The whole movie anticipates American in PAris in its degree of styliazation, and also Kelly's shift towards an athletic longer ballet style of solo and chorus dance number. But PIrate is incredibly, wildly superior to the later movie. IMO anyway.

 

[lark144]

The costume design by Tom Keogh was enormously expensive (over 5 grand an outfit for the women) from designs by Barbara Karinska but clearly the wardrobe was made to MInnelli's detailed specifications. Some of the color blendings in them are totally painterly. In fact they remind me of Matisse. Gladys Cooper's entrance is done with a gob smacking outfit in deep emerald green, gold and black in fine filigree. Judy's costumes run the gamut from pink with orange trim to mutating shades of purple and blue with red and black as signatures for her "Hot scenes" (Probably also designed for the "Voodoo:" which that bastard Mayer cut from the movie. This transfer brings them all to life in a way I have never, ever seen before. The whole movie anticipates American in PAris in its degree of styliazation, and also Kelly's shift towards an athletic longer ballet style of solo and chorus dance number. But PIrate is incredibly, wildly superior to the later movie. IMO anyway.

David, what more can I say after such a post?

But I will, anyway.

I saw "The Pirate" many times at both the Regency and MOMA & what especially stuck in my head was a scene in the beginning where Gene Kelly is dancing past balustrades and porticoes and twirling around columns arrayed with colored ribbon, and in the distance you can see women watching him, and moving along with his rhythm, almost like horses on a carousel, and those women are wearing outfits with wide, brocaded sleeves that are in strips of color, every shade of red imaginable; rose, vermilion and scarlet as well as purple, and those sleeves billow as the women move, and the colors ripple and shimmer in time to Gene Kelly's movements, so the screen is drowned in color that seems an underpinning of Mr. Kelly's masculinity, poise and grace. I thought this memory may have only been a hallucination, it's been so many years since I've seen a decent color print, but there it was on the Blu-Ray, even more robust and expressive than I remembered.

In terms of the use of stylization of dance and abstract use of color for purely emotional means; yes, "The Pirate" is, I think, far superior to "An American in Paris"

However, because that stylization in "The Pirate" is so overwhelming and pure, it transcends the story and characters. It's difficult to identify with the characters, which is exacerbated by the satire, so it doesn't work as well as entertainment. As someone who prefers form over content, I find "The Pirate" a masterpiece, but others may disagree.

The romance between Garland and Kelly comes across more through color and composition and costume design and music than character. They both seem too self-centered to really fall for each other, especially Kelly, who goes though so many wild mood changes and theatrical poses, it's a bit off-putting to someone who wants to lose themselves in the story.

I think this may be one reason why "The Pirate" failed at the box office. Of course, this happens in many of Fellini's films as well, but they were seen as personal art, not popular entertainment. Those Fellini films opened at the Little Carnegie with a serving of espresso on the side, not Radio City. Also, by the mid 1950's, the audience had matured. But I think this may be why Gene Kelly is so accessible and sympathetic in "An American in Paris." Minnelli tried to merge sophistication of form with simplicity of character, after the box office disappointment of "The Pirate". And "An American in Paris" was a huge commercial and critical success. But I consider "The Pirate" much better and near perfect film.

 

[bujaki]

David, what more can I say after such a post?

But I will, anyway.

I saw "The Pirate" many times at both the Regency and MOMA & what especially stuck in my head was a scene in the beginning where Gene Kelly is dancing past balustrades and porticoes and twirling around columns arrayed with colored ribbon, and in the distance you can see women watching him, and moving along with his rhythm, almost like horses on a carousel, and those women are wearing outfits with wide, brocaded sleeves that are in strips of color, every shade of red imaginable; rose, vermilion and scarlet as well as purple, and those sleeves billow as the women move, and the colors ripple and shimmer in time to Gene Kelly's movements, so the screen is drowned in color that seems an underpinning of Mr. Kelly's masculinity, poise and grace. I thought this memory may have only been a hallucination, it's been so many years since I've seen a decent color print, but there it was on the Blu-Ray, even more robust and expressive than I remembered.

In terms of the use of stylization of dance and abstract use of color for purely emotional means; yes, "The Pirate" is, I think, far superior to "An American in Paris"

However, because that stylization in "The Pirate" is so overwhelming and pure, it transcends the story and characters. It's difficult to identify with the characters, which is exacerbated by the satire, so it doesn't work as well as entertainment. As someone who prefers form over content, I find "The Pirate" a masterpiece, but others may disagree.

The romance between Garland and Kelly comes across more through color and composition and costume design and music than character. They both seem too self-centered to really fall for each other, especially Kelly, who goes though so many wild mood changes and theatrical poses, it's a bit off-putting to someone who wants to lose themselves in the story.

I think this may be one reason why "The Pirate" failed at the box office. Of course, this happens in many of Fellini's films as well, but they were seen as personal art, not popular entertainment. Those Fellini films opened at the Little Carnegie with a serving of espresso on the side, not Radio City. Also, by the mid 1950's, the audience had matured. But I think this may be why Gene Kelly is so accessible and sympathetic in "An American in Paris." Minnelli tried to merge sophistication of form with simplicity of character, after the box office disappointment of "The Pirate". And "An American in Paris" was a huge commercial and critical success. But I consider "The Pirate" much better and near perfect film.

I so agree with you since I too experienced the intoxication of the 35mm Technicolor prints of The Pirate you reference back in the day. I can admire aspects of An American in Paris, but it can never, not even with Gershwin, soar with the sheer genius of The Pirate.

 

[lark144]

I so agree with you since I too experienced the intoxication of the 35mm Technicolor prints of The Pirate you reference back in the day. I can admire aspects of An American in Paris, but it can never, not even with Gershwin, soar with the sheer genius of The Pirate.

Well, "An American in Paris" is easy to lose oneself in. I often watch it if I can't sleep at night. It's warm and relaxing and a bit silly. The colors are bright and pleasant. Most of the film is the cinematic equivalent of comfort food. It gives me very happy dreams. And the ballet is still really impressive, especially John Alton's lighting and use of colored gels, but Kelly's dancing in it doesn't compare to his best work in "The Pirate".

What is extraordinary about "An American in Paris" & I only really noticed recently, are Oscar Levant's piano solos. They move from the melodic into areas of extreme complexity, dissonance and virtuosity in the winking of an eye. He takes those overly-familiar Gershwin themes and turns them into huge waves of sound, tragic battlegrounds of emotion, and a purity of expression that is stunning. I must confess I was so dulled by the prettiness of the film I never paid attention before, especially because this only happens for brief moments. You have to really listen. Then I turned to to Oscar Levant's audio outtakes & they were even more demanding and profound. We think of him as a second banana, a purveyor of hypochondria and bon mots, but he was also a committed modernist, an extraordinary pianist and creative genius. For those bits of piano music alone, "An American in Paris" is worth watching.

 

[roxy1927]

That's funny because as has been discussed The Pirate is 2nd rate Porter(in fact I'd put it at third rate) which is a big problem with the film where American is all 1st rate Gershwin which is maybe why it was such a huge popular success and for me the numbers there soar. I enjoy The Pirate immensely but boy do I wish it had a better music. You want the songs to lift you up but they stubbornly remain earthbound. As somebody I believe here put it Cole was saving everything for Kiss Me Kate where there isn't a clinker in the bunch. The Pirate is all clinkers(ok I'll give you Be A Clown.) There isn't one song you wish Frank or Ella had done a cover of. It was up to Salinger or whoever it was to give the songs some life. And then you had the musical comedy Balanchine of MGM Robert Alton to whip up phenomenal dances just as he had done with Easter Parade and Good News. Unfortunately they are all used up at the beginning of the film. If anybody is an unsung hero of musicals it is the long forgotten Alton. Nina reminds me of Stepping Out With My Baby in that he has the women dancing up a storm the way dancers in musicals could once do.

 

[david hare]

I used to think in my early history of The PIrate which was negative what I also thought was a "weak" Cole Porter score.

I came to the movie again with this BluRay and frankly I feel as though Iam now watching it and hearing it for the first time. For one thing Salinger's incredible orchestrations are startlingly clear (merci to 14 bit lossless audio) so you can hear all theplayfulness btween his signature brass and string writing that at other times can sound like Bruckner. And what's also immediately obvious to me is how much Porter has writen the songs to maintain the ultra sophisticated tone of the whole movie - like the performances which are so sly, self aware and everything else in the picture which is totally informed by pure artifice. Until in the end you get a recreation of reality which with all these levels of artifice is so astonishing and frankly unique in movies, it surpasses mere style to redefine reality. I am so knocked out by the new 4K restoration. Never, never (he says gingerly) think you've had the last thought about a movie you're not sure about. I'm now over 70 and still picking things up I never saw (or heard) before.

 

[roxy1927]

Well Amazon seems to be surprised by the orders for this. Early today I noted Prime orders placed today were to be delivered by Dec 17. Then it changed to Jan 7 and now it is Feb 4. Mine is still scheduled for tomorrow but hasn't been shipped yet. Ah well. This is what I get for criticizing the score.
But Amazon is kind of bonkers. I ordered the 4k 2001 for 14.99 a couple of weeks ago and it is now 24.99. And I put the Eureka The Gang's All Here in my basket 2 days ago for about $60 and it is now close to $100. I wish I had known about it before purchasing the Twilight Time a year ago. bluray.com unfortunately took its time reviewing the Twilight Time and gave the prize to Eureka(which I didn't even know existed.)

 

[marcco00]

i'm in the same boat- amazon saying it's been shipped & will arrive tomorrow, usps saying

they are in pre-shipment mode waiting on the package

 

[lark144]

I used to think in my early history of The PIrate which was negative what I also thought was a "weak" Cole Porter score.

I came to the movie again with this BluRay and frankly I feel as though Iam now watching it and hearing it for the first time. For one thing Salinger's incredible orchestrations are startlingly clear (merci to 14 bit lossless audio) so you can hear all theplayfulness btween his signature brass and string writing that at other times can sound like Bruckner. And what's also immediately obvious to me is how much Porter has writen the songs to maintain the ultra sophisticated tone of the whole movie - like the performances which are so sly, self aware and everything else in the picture which is totally informed by pure artifice. Until in the end you get a recreation of reality which with all these levels of artifice is so astonishing and frankly unique in movies, it surpasses mere style to redefine reality. I am so knocked out by the new 4K restoration. Never, never (he says gingerly) think you've had the last thought about a movie you're not sure about. I'm now over 70 and still picking things up I never saw (or heard) before.

Exactly. The songs aren't "second rate Porter" but exude a sophistication and complexity that matches the sophistication of the film. The reason they're not standards isn't because they're "inferior" but they're so harmonically complex they work more as instrumentals than vocal pieces. For example, Nina has some really tricky chordal modulations that even Ella might have trouble with, while the lyrics, in their rhyming and rhythmic verve, is, I attest, Porter at his best. But singing it, and keeping from going off key as the key constantly changes, would be difficult. It's almost modal in places, like Harold Arlen's "Out of This World, especially the bridge. I think it would have made a great vehicle for John Coltrane. And yes, listening to Conrad Salinger's orchestral variations in 14 bit is really thrilling, especially the way he interoperates Ravel's "Bolero", adds a bit of Arabic scale (speaking of John Coltrane) and then goes back into the bridge and major chords in 4/4 time, which is absolutely stunning.

No, these songs aren't second rate. They may not be what we're used to from Porter, but in musical sophistication and harmonic experimentation, they rival or possibly even surpass--not in terms of songs but compositional mastery--"Kiss Me Kate". But you have to listen with open ears and leave your expectations behind.

 

[david hare]

lark, superb observations...