Disney+ Secret Invasion (Marvel Cinematic Universe) (1 Viewer)

[Joe Wong]

Regarding the notion that the MCU’s quality is falling, this series gives ample evidence.

I wonder if there was a budget cut? Eg. The lack of security for the President.

Like I said, this should/could have been a game changer / monumental event… but it fizzled.

 

[Josh Dial]

Like many I was greatly disappointed with Secret Invasion.

I think most of the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the head writer, Brian Tucker. The plot and the dialogue were simply not good.

There appeared to be significant directing and editing issues, too, which (and I've went to this well numerous times criticizing movies and other TV shows) are hallmarked by an over-reliance on ADR. If you get so little coverage that you need Samuel L. Jackson to sit in front of mic somewhere and say the simplest of lines, that's a directing problem. Having now seen six episodes from Ali Selim (plus his two episodes of Condor), I just don't think he's good enough to handle anything in the biggest franchise in the world.

It's a damned shame because the actors were trying their best.

Olivia Colman is, of course, a star. I've loved her work since first seeing her in Peep Show and That Mitchel and Webb Look. Colman is a welcome addition to the MCU and I hope we see a lot more of her.

Kingsley Ben-Adir was great with what he was given. His showdown with Fury was a high point.

I'm not normally a fan of Emilia Clarke but she was decent here (though probably the weakest of the main cast).

Don Cheadle brought great chaotic energy to Skrull Rhodey. He was clearly having a blast with his heel turn.

Samuel L. Jackson was Samuel L. Jackson.

But this was not the show that we were promised. This was not a taught political thriller. This was not Tinker Tailor Fury Spy. This was not a spiritual successor to Winter Soldier.

And the plot was just...bad. Motivations were clear (ish), so I'll credit that. But the actual story telling mechanisms of getting from A to B were utterly bland EXCEPT when Olivia Colman's Sonya was on screen.

I read that the opening credits were generated in part by AI. If you told me the plot and script were written by an AI I would believe it.

I don't think this is an MCU problem. I don't think the franchise is suffering directly from bloat, and I don't think "Marvel fatigue" is real. People will watch good products. But I think bloat is indirectly affecting the franchise. There is a lot being made and the quality is starting to slip here and there because there are simply too many moving parts. I don't think the answer is necessarily scaling back the quantity (though that's what Iger is doing it seems). I think the answer is increasing oversight from the "MCU veterans" and only approving quality products. I honestly don't think Kevin Feige is "heading up" as much as he should. If I had to guess he's actually only directly overseeing one project at a time. He needs to be reading every single script and firing people that don't bring their A game. If he can't do that, then, well, too bad.

On a similar note, the MCU is taking too many risks on untested talent. I'm sorry, but why did Ali Selim get to handle Secret Invasion (was Kari Skogland busy?) ? Why did Jeff Loveness get to write Quantumania? Why is Disney sending the B-team to nationals?

If you are going to take staffing risks you do it right by hiring someone like Chloe Zhao (I still maintain Eternals is top tier MCU).

They can't all be hits. But...maybe they can be?

What a pity.

 

[Joe Wong]

They can't all be hits. But...maybe they can be?

This!

If you look at Phase 3's box office, worldwide take was $13.5 billion, at an average of $1.2 billion for each of the 11 films.

The quality was there - and the box office followed.

 

[Josh Dial]

This!

If you look at Phase 3's box office, worldwide take was $13.5 billion, at an average of $1.2 billion for each of the 11 films.

The quality was there - and the box office followed.

Very true.

Beyond that, what I'm saying is that even when you are putting out "quantity" you can still have quality. It's a false dichotomy to say you can't have both. This is Disney, with gobs of money and the proven ability to attract the best talent in the world. They literally got Olivia Colman. They literally got William Hurt and Robert Redford.

But the talent well is running dry on the writing side and, to a lesser extent, the directing side.

Why is Disney not hiring the best directors in the world? Why not the best writers?

Here, I'll fix Secret Invasion for Disney. You get a meeting with Sam Esmail and slide him a blank cheque and ask him to write and direct a six episode political and technological thriller about the police state, government control, and the immigrant experience. Oh and he gets Samuel L. Jackson and Olivia Colman. Done.

I really liked She-Hulk, but I'll punch it up a few notches. You hire Phoebe Waller-Bridge to write and give her a blank cheque.

Look, I get that running a studio is difficult. But some of these decisions seem really easy. Gimmes, really.

 

[ScottRE]

Am I the only one at home watching the hospital stand off yelling "just f'king SHOOT RHODEY!" at the screen? Instead of trying to convince the president the guy's a Skrull, just pull the damned trigger. David Vincent could be that stupid in 1967 but today, just do the easiest thing.

This series wasted a great concept and cast and just reveled in mediocrity. I was really looking forward to this series. Agreed, it should have been a game changing event. Now I want those hours of my life back.

 

[TonyD]

Sure but wouldn’t the cia have immediately fired on whomever shot Rhodey and killed them?

 

[Joe Wong]

Very true.

Beyond that, what I'm saying is that even when you are putting out "quantity" you can still have quality. It's a false dichotomy to say you can't have both. This is Disney, with gobs of money and the proven ability to attract the best talent in the world. They literally got Olivia Colman. They literally got William Hurt and Robert Redford.

But the talent well is running dry on the writing side and, to a lesser extent, the directing side.

Why is Disney not hiring the best directors in the world? Why not the best writers?

Here, I'll fix Secret Invasion for Disney. You get a meeting with Sam Esmail and slide him a blank cheque and ask him to write and direct a six episode political and technological thriller about the police state, government control, and the immigrant experience. Oh and he gets Samuel L. Jackson and Olivia Colman. Done.

I really liked She-Hulk, but I'll punch it up a few notches. You hire Phoebe Waller-Bridge to write and give her a blank cheque.

Look, I get that running a studio is difficult. But some of these decisions seem really easy. Gimmes, really.

I understand talent is pricey but the TV shows do seem to be using writing/directing names I haven't heard much of (and that could be my fault).

I'm not a studio head, but IMO if you put the investment into getting the best talent, you will (hopefully) reap the rewards down the line. Example is hiring the Russo Bros for Winter Soldier and teaming them with Markus/McFeely as the writers. If it didn't work, then move to another team.

But it did work, and it led to CW, IW and EG.

 

[ScottRE]

Sure but wouldn’t the cia have immediately fired on whomever shot Rhodey and killed them?

Everyone was already taken out by then. It was just Fury and Sonya with the President and Rhodey.

 

[Josh Dial]

Furthering my point about a company being able to simply hire "the best people", in the official Barbie review thread Colin wrote:

Though Baumbach did co-write "Madagascar 3", which is this weird anomaly in his otherwise hipster filmography.

But "M3" is the best of the franchise by a mile, so I guess he helped!

Dreamworks somehow convinced Noah Baumbach to do a significant re-write to the third Madagascar movie's script.

I don't believe Disney can't hire the best writers and directors for their projects.

 

[Joe Wong]

This tweet raises the possibility that Rhodes was still himself in Endgame.

 

[jayembee]

Everyone was already taken out by then. It was just Fury and Sonya with the President and Rhodey.

Actually, the whole time I was thinking that Sonya could've put a bullet through Skrodey's arm, and see if the arm starts turning green.

 

[jayembee]

^^How does anyone know that his legs were "totally fine" in TF&TWS? Just because we don't see him wearing the braces doesn't mean he isn't. Keep in mind that in IW/EG, he's just hanging out in the Avengers compound with friends. He doesn't need to cover up his braces. In TF&TWS, he's wearing a uniform all the time, so the braces could be hidden.

I wear compression socks and wraps on my lower legs. If I'm wearing jeans over them, you'd never know; if I'm wearing shorts, you would see them.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I wonder if there was a budget cut? Eg. The lack of security for the President.

I don't think an increase in budget would have fixed the massive problems that I have with this. It's not the money, it's the writing for Rhodey and G'iah that make this terrible, and none of that was financially motivated.

Can She-Hulk break Disney+ and erase this again? As much as I hated that, I'd rather that than being stuck with fake Rhodey as retroactive canon in films where Don Cheadle was obviously playing the real Rhodey until they decided to change it for the benefit of this series.

 

[Joe Wong]

I don't think an increase in budget would have fixed the massive problems that I have with this. It's not the money, it's the writing for Rhodey and G'iah that make this terrible, and none of that was financially motivated.

Can She-Hulk break Disney+ and erase this again? As much as I hated that, I'd rather that than being stuck with fake Rhodey as retroactive canon in films where Don Cheadle was obviously playing the real Rhodey until they decided to change it for the benefit of this series.

Agreed - a bigger budget wouldn’t have improved the script.

It was the stark difference between the action scene at the start of F&WS where Sam is flying through canyons and looked cinema quality, and the hospital scene where the President only has a few bodyguards, that prompts the question.

Usually Marvel is more polished than this.

 

[Jake Lipson]

For those who are sensitive, I'm going to put this in a spoiler tag because it is in reference to Captain America: Brave New World, but Kevin Feige has explicitly stated it in press interviews. So he obviously wants this information to be out there and I don't personally think it is a spoiler.

Spoiler

Kevin Feige has said that Thunderbolt Ross will be President of the United States in Brave New World. This was stated sometime around when Harrison Ford was confirmed to replace William Hurt in the role. So I'm actually really surprised that they didn't kill off the President in this series. I figured he was a goner when he was attacked because we know he will be out of office by the time we get to the next Cap movie. I guess there's due to be an election in the MCU before the events of that film.

 

[Jason_V]

From Episode 1, I’ve been pretty consistent in that I don’t like Secret Invasion. Some episodes were better than others, but there’s precious little in this show I’d recommend.

The opening credit music is pretty top notch. Olivia Colman is great. And that’s where the list ends.

This entire thing is just stupid. What was the point? Getting Fury back to being Fury? More absolutely mind-numbing navel gazing about the damn Blip? Taking out Maria Hill like a punk (no, I will never forgive this)? Setting some kind of stage for the return to space in The Marvels? Or just to fill six weeks on a streaming schedule?

There seems to be a very simple, effective way to figure out if someone is a Skrull: a blood test. Prick someone’s finger and if the blood is purple, Skrull. Done. Star Trek figured this out in the 1990s. And Secret Invasion plays stupid with it.

Moreover, why wasn’t Gravik able to heal himself with extremis? He’s been shown to heal injuries already…why not the hole in his torso? Is it because it was Carol Danvers DNA that ripped the hole in him? Again, I need someone to explain this to me.

With the ending, the speech was reckless and unbecoming a president or any elected leader the minute the words were uttered. If they were going for a real world parallel, they failed. If they’re trying to set up a new villain, they also failed because nothing in this series showed he is an anybody to worry about.

But now, how do you put that genie back in the bottle? Once the hate has been unleashed, telling folks to “stop” isn’t going to do crap.

One last thing: I don’t want to hear about the Blip again. Enough. We are now roughly four years in our time past that event. We don’t need to revisit it with every character…all it does is remind the audience of a much better MCU, and that doesn’t help this knock-off version at all.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Setting some kind of stage for the return to space in The Marvels?

That's the thing that doesn't make sense to me. The last time we saw Nick Fury, he was in space at the end of Far From Home. When I saw that, I thought, "They're putting him up there so he can be in the Captain Marvel sequel." Endgame made pretty clear that Carol sees herself as a cosmic hero, but they would want Fury in her sequel because their dynamic worked so well in the first one. That made sense to me. So why bring him back down to Earth now and then immediately send him back to space? There wasn't much in this story that seemed to justify its own existence.

On the one hand, the events in here that I don't like are clearly going to impact the story going forward.

Spoiler

Talos being dead means he won't be in The Marvels. Rhodey being retconned into a Skrull since Civil War will have to impact his storyline going forward whenever he appears next. G'iah now having all the superpowers is going to have to come into play later. So things happened in this show that are going to change the MCU. They already have, because prior to this the real

On the other hand, this particular story for Fury just felt like it was treading water until The Marvels comes along. They could have just left Fury in space until we pick up with him in The Marvels. So why was it here?

 

[Jason_V]

That's the thing that doesn't make sense to me. The last time we saw Nick Fury, he was in space at the end of Far From Home. When I saw that, I thought, "They're putting him up there so he can be in the Captain Marvel sequel." Endgame made pretty clear that Carol sees herself as a cosmic hero, but they would want Fury in her sequel because their dynamic worked so well in the first one. That made sense to me. So why bring him back down to Earth now and then immediately send him back to space? There wasn't much in this story that seemed to justify its own existence.

100% agree…but I should have been more clear. Not Fury’s return to space…the audience returning to space. I don’t count Guardians 3, so the last time we heard/saw SABER was, when? I remember there was a tag scene somewhere and I want to saw it was Captain Marvel, it I could be wrong.

On the one hand, the events in here that I don't like are clearly going to impact the story going forward.

Spoiler

Talos being dead means he won't be in The Marvels. Rhodey being retconned into a Skrull since Civil War will have to impact his storyline going forward whenever he appears next. G'iah now having all the superpowers is going to have to come into play later. So things happened in this show that are going to change the MCU. They already have, because prior to this the real

On the other hand, this particular story for Fury just felt like it was treading water until The Marvels comes along. They could have just left Fury in space until we pick up with him in The Marvels. So why was it here?

There’s been stuff in all the shows (and some movies) that should impact the MCU in big ways, but they’re just getting around to paying it off. New Captain America on the screen in real year 2021…not seeing him show up until 2024. The big robot thing in Eternals…anyone notice that? Big end battle in Moon Knight…not on anyone’s radar. Sam Wilson’s big speech at the end of F&WS…nada. Even the stuff in Loki is coming out in fits and starts.

These shows and movies are all part of the Multiverse Saga…but most of them have Jack squat to do with that ongoing story. Not even a drop of a hint here or there. It’s like these things are being made by people who don’t talk to one another and have no guiding force to make sure it all makes sense.

I am not looking forward to the next shows: Loki Season 2 and Echo. I can’t imagine how bad the latter is if they’re dropping all episodes on one day…

 

[Jake Lipson]

100% agree…but I should have been more clear. Not Fury’s return to space…the audience returning to space. I don’t count Guardians 3, so the last time we heard/saw SABER was, when? I remember there was a tag scene somewhere and I want to saw it was Captain Marvel, it I could be wrong.

The mid-credits scene in Captain Marvel was Carol responding to Fury's page from Infinity War and finding the surviving Avengers instead because Fury had been dusted. The end tag was Goose the cat throwing up the Tesseract which he had eaten.

The post-credits scene you are probably thinking of is Far From Home. It first introduced the idea that the real Fury was in space and that Talos was impersonating him on Earth. The reason I liked that particular twist is because it cleared up what seemed to be a nagging plot hole from Far From Home on my first viewing. When it was revealed that Quentin Beck had been a disgruntled former Stark employee, I wondered how Fury wouldn't have known that. Fury had been keeping tabs on Tony (even before The Avengers) for so long that surely he would have had a file on everybody working at Stark Industries. When it was revealed that the "Fury" in Far From Home was actually Talos, that made sense, because Talos wouldn't have had any experience with Tony Stark. So, there, the "surprise, it's a Skrull" was used effectively to make everything make sense again.

By contrast, the "surprise, it's a Skrull" twists in Secret Invasion don't do anything for this story other than add a "Gotcha" moment, and manage to crap all over the fine work done in preceding MCU films.

There was also a mid-credits scene in WandaVision where a Skrull invited Monica to work in space on behalf of Fury. This was obviously to put her in the correct position for The Marvels movie.

We haven't spent any meaningful time with Fury in space at all. I assumed that was what The Marvels is for. But having him return to Earth before we've actually seen a lot of what he's been doing in space diminished the impact of his return. Besides, of course, we knew he would have to return to space at the end of the show in order to be there for The Marvels. So he might as well have just stayed there.

 

[Jason_V]

Yup, that’s the one. Thank you, @Jake Lipson!