HTF DVD REVIEW: The Golden Age of Television (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Willis]

That's a bummer about Beverly Hillbillies and Petticoat Junction getting canned. I haven't been collecting those but I know they're popular shows here.

I hate to hear that CBS/P is slowing down as well. They seem to be the last major studio releasing pre-70's shows.

Keep Mannix coming

 

[Neil Brock]

Originally Posted by smithb

Speaking of "Man With A Camera", how was that release? Anyone get it? I ended up sticking it on my list as a future purchase primarily because of Bronson.

Very good. Most of the stories are quite good and Bronson is Bronson. Plus they did a great job on the prints and even though they are from 16mm, they really looked good.

 

[Matt Hough]

Well, I did see that CBS/Paramount is continuing with CANNON's next volume and BARNABY JONES' first season, both in February.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattH.

Well, I did see that CBS/Paramount is continuing with CANNON's next volume and BARNABY JONES' first season, both in February.

Right Matt. And I'm definitely gonna pick up the BARNABY JONES set just because I always liked Buddy Ebsen and have pretty good memories about liking this show. I picked up the first season of CANNON, and while I liked it fine I'm not sure if I'll pick up any more seasons. The bottom line is that both of those shows are from the 70's, which is a decade the studios seem to be a bit more prone to releasing than the 50's and 60's at this point. But I imagine we'll see a scale back in 70's releases as well as 2010 progresses.

Oh, in checking some dates out I can say that I'll know for sure in the next couple of weeks whether or not CBS/Paramount has either abandoned or postponed two more classics from the 50's/60's era. One was scheduled for release on the last Tuesday in February and it's yet to show up in current release news (but I guess it still might) and another is scheduled for early March. Then there the '75 Mel Brooks series, WHEN THINGS WERE ROTTEN. That was originally scheduled for January of next year so obviously it's either been postponed or abandoned.


Gary "things are definitely not looking that great for older, especially b/w series, right now" O.

 

[Jeff Willis]

Makes me wonder if we'll see a decade-by-decade decline of these DVD releases. First, the 50's-60's sets declining, then 70's in another year? I hope not but it wouldn't surprise me.

The thing that's always puzzled me is something that Gary and I have talked about and that is "Where's all of the 'Boomers?" I'd have guessed that there would be more than enough of my age group out there in the DVD-buying group that would have kept these older TV/DVD releases rolling along. Maybe there's a lot less of them that are interested in the older shows than I'd have guessed. I know that my brother in law and sister both watch current network shows and don't collect many TV/DVD sets as I do. That surprised me for some reason since they are older than me. I don't watch any current TV shows.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Willis

Makes me wonder if we'll see a decade-by-decade decline of these DVD releases. First, the 50's-60's sets declining, then 70's in another year? I hope not but it wouldn't surprise me.

The thing that's always puzzled me is something that Gary and I have talked about and that is "Where's all of the 'Boomers?" I'd have guessed that there would be more than enough of my age group out there in the DVD-buying group that would have kept these older TV/DVD releases rolling along. Maybe there's a lot less of them that are interested in the older shows than I'd have guessed. I know that my brother in law and sister both watch current network shows and don't collect many TV/DVD sets as I do. That surprised me for some reason since they are older than me. I don't watch any current TV shows.

Jeff, I don't know the answer to your "Boomers" question, except to say that in my personal experience (which of course is anecdotal) a majority of "Boomers" really don't care all the much about collecting older material from their childhood days. Of course that's a generalization and I know that good and well. But like Jeff, I see a lot of people my age and older that actually end up watching modern TV more than older stuff. It makes me kinda sad but I've even seen people in their 60's and 70's who often seem more content with modern fare. I know we have "Boomers" and "Busters" and many young people on this forum who do appreciate the older material and collect these series on dvd, but I think we are the exception and not the rule for people in our age bracket.

I also need to say that my comment about possibly seeing a slowdown in 70's releases is just conjecture on my part. I know for a fact that the 50's and 60's material has slowed down. That's just not disputable on any level. All the data bears it out. But since I'm not as apt to follow the trends with 70's material I don't honestly know if there's been a slowdown or if one is on the horizon for that time period. But it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

At this point I'm just hoping we can somehow, by hook or by crook, see the completion of a few series like FATHER KNOWS BEST before the wheels completely fall off. I'd like to believe a great seller like PERRY MASON for CBS/P will see completion, but I honestly wonder if that will happen as fast as this medium is dying. I'm not sure we've got another 4 or 5 years left before the studios have turned to another format (other than sddvd), whether that be blu-ray (which I highly, highly doubt will carry many older series from the 50's and 60's) or the WB Archive type of dvd-r's. Then again, the studios might move away from physical media altogether and opt for some type of downloading/streaming. If I had to bet that would be my guess.


Gary "hope I'm completely wrong and we see a resurgence of older material released on dvd - but I'm not holding my breath" O.

 

[Doug^Ch]

Well, after reading these posts I'm really saddened that a lot of the classic stuff I've been collecting is obviously not selling well enough to continue. I think you are all correct that the boomers are just not buying the older shows on DVD. I really think that we are very much in the minority. I'm 48 years old, and I have always loved the old stuff, but any other boomers that I know, think I am crazy to have any interest in these old shows. It is frustrating; I don't think things are going to improve for the classic TV show fanatics until there is a reliable, and easy way to download or stream these shows to the computer. I also have to say that would not be my preference, but if that is all I can get, I will have to move in that direction.

I have started to direct some of my interests over to Old Time Radio to assuage the lack of classic TV releases. I have to say that I am really beginning to be won over by the abundance of great, mostly complete, and extremely inexpensive shows out there. I just downloaded 488 Gunsmoke episodes for free from archive.org. If these shows continue to dry up, I may move to OTR completely.

 

[smithb]

Doug,

We have a lot in common. For one, I'm also 48. Secondly, I've also gotten into old time radio. Having gotten tired of morning radio from music to sports talk radio I've ventured into the old radio broadcasts. I bounced around a few things but my favorite to date is Gunsmoke. I've also downloaded 10 years worth from the on-line archives. Having a 45 minute commute it has been great listening to the episodes. I think I have gone through about 150 episodes so far. Next I thing I'm going to try Johnny Dollar. There are loads of it available as well and it is suppose to be pretty good. One interesting aspect is listening to the old commercials. From L&M and Chesterfelds commercials to the needs for workers knowing how to work milking machines for the war effort (that was actually from a Tarzan serial).

As far as classic TV goes. I think there are a few things that need to fall in place properly for it to be a hit with some. I can see boomers passing by them in the store and saying "look at that I haven't seen that in years" but not actually trying it out. The criteria I see is as follows:
- you had to be a TV kid growing up (FKB, I Love Lucy, My Three Sons, LITB, etc).
- you need a nudge to get that first favorite and not be embarrased (for me it was moving from current day movies, to classic movies, to current day TV on DVD, until classic TV was left).
- finding a forum like this where you find others with the same interest (if not for this forum I would have stopped at a few but I kept learning about others I needed to try).

I think there are many boomers that could get into it, but they would have to get over a few humps first blocking their way. I have to say when I mention what I enjoy watching I get some odd stares at times.

 

[smithb]

Doug,

As an add-on. What do you think about the comparison between radio Gunsmoke and the TV show? I never watched the show prior to seeing the first season in the last year or so. But I have to say, I think William Conrad makes a better Matt Dillon. Kitty and Chester play about the same to me across the two. And while I liked Doc in the TV show, I like him better in the radio program. I think "Floyd the Barber from the Andy Griffith Show" brings in much more personality. So while I like both I'm leaning towards the radio show as being the better of the two. The only bad part is that they share many of the same scripts. At least that can be bad if you watch/listen to both.

 

[Jeff Willis]

You guys have some good theories about the absence of the 'Boomers at the stores for older shows on DVD. I'll try a couple that I've thought about for awhile:

- TV media is still approached by most viewers as "I'm home, turn on the TV and see what's on" mode. Whatever's on network or the major cable/satt outlets, they'll watch, in addition to the premium movie channels.

- The TV/DVD market has always seemed to me to be more of a nitch "collectors" market due to the fact that it's not movie DVD's, it's TV. So the mindset among many out there is "Why would we pay for some show that's been on free TV?" Of course, on this Bd, we see it a lot different. There's nothing like owning our own TV channel, right? Watching these shows that (most) aren't available anywhere else, commercial-free, gives us a "we're at the movies" feeling. At least, to me, it's that way.

- DVD buyers, from what I've seen over the years since the format came onto the mkt, has mainly been movie/film buyers and not TV/DVD sets, with the exception of collectors on forums like us. DVD movies were the first on the scene so the TV/DVD segment of the mkt has had to try and play "catch-up" in addition to dealing with the logjams of legal or music clearances that most recent movies haven't had to deal with since the films have been geared to the home video mkt for longer than the TV/DVD segment of the mkt.

I've seen the same reaction to my hobby when I've mentioned to some guys I worked with recently, the TV/DVD sets that I have bought over the past several years. The typical reaction is "Why buy something that's old or that you've seen already?" They'll usually mention something that's currently being shown on network TV or something like one of the HBO or Showtime series shows. My reply is usually "For the most part, I'm not interested in content that's generally shown on TV during the past 5-10 yrs". Another point that I make is that most of these recent shows have already seen DVD releases so I can check some of them out anytime. A lot of what we would buy here on this Bd isn't available or has been abandoned by the studios. Big difference, imo.

I readily admit that I'm a real "caveman" like that Geico commercial guy when it comes to exposure to any TV series over the last 10-12 yrs. I mean, I've never seen any episodes of many hits, "24", "Lost", "CSI Miami". "Charmed", "House", etc. Geeze, I haven't even seen any of that megahit show "Alias" a few years ago. But the difference is that most or all of those shows have been released on DVD so if I get an intereest in checking recent shows out, I can get them on DVD. That's a big difference in waiting for "Batman", "Green Hornet", etc, that are tied up in courts or something like "Sea Hunt", "12 O'Clock High", etc, that probably won't see any releases.

That said, I know there have been some gems out there over recent years but like all of us, there's only so much time to go around. As for giving up my DirecTV sports.....it ain't gonna happen

 

[smithb]

Like you say Jeff, mention an older TV show and they automatically think "why not just watch it on TV Land or something", as if all older shows are on some channel at all times. Which we know isn't true.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

I don't think that most people realize that the majority of the classic TV Shows aren't on TV Land or Nick at Nite anymore, and that both stations have become just another place to air shows from the 90s and early '00s.

There really is no "home for classic TV" on television anymore! If it isn't on DVD, Odds are, you can't watch it.

 

[DeWilson]

Originally Posted by Tim Tucker

It's too bad that the quality isn't better, given what can be done with modern technology to restore old kinescopes.

Seems like they are using the old transfers from the Early 1980's! Heck,even MODERN TRANSFERS with no additional restoration would bump up quality!

The Kinescope process in itself isn't bad, it's the way the prints are transfered.

 

[DeWilson]

Originally Posted by Jeff Willis /forum/thread/295056/htf-dvd-review-the-golden-age-of-television#post_3630775

I'm wondering since they have so much product if CBS isn't just streching out the classic releases.

 

[Neil Brock]

Originally Posted by Gary OS

Quote:


Jeff, I don't know the answer to your "Boomers" question, except to say that in my personal experience (which of course is anecdotal) a majority of "Boomers" really don't care all the much about collecting older material from their childhood days. Of course that's a generalization and I know that good and well. But like Jeff, I see a lot of people my age and older that actually end up watching modern TV more than older stuff. It makes me kinda sad but I've even seen people in their 60's and 70's who often seem more content with modern fare. I know we have "Boomers" and "Busters" and many young people on this forum who do appreciate the older material and collect these series on dvd, but I think we are the exception and not the rule for people in our age bracket.

I also need to say that my comment about possibly seeing a slowdown in 70's releases is just conjecture on my part. I know for a fact that the 50's and 60's material has slowed down. That's just not disputable on any level. All the data bears it out. But since I'm not as apt to follow the trends with 70's material I don't honestly know if there's been a slowdown or if one is on the horizon for that time period. But it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

At this point I'm just hoping we can somehow, by hook or by crook, see the completion of a few series like FATHER KNOWS BEST before the wheels completely fall off. I'd like to believe a great seller like PERRY MASON for CBS/P will see completion, but I honestly wonder if that will happen as fast as this medium is dying. I'm not sure we've got another 4 or 5 years left before the studios have turned to another format (other than sddvd), whether that be blu-ray (which I highly, highly doubt will carry many older series from the 50's and 60's) or the WB Archive type of dvd-r's. Then again, the studios might move away from physical media altogether and opt for some type of downloading/streaming. If I had to bet that would be my guess.


Gary "hope I'm completely wrong and we see a resurgence of older material released on dvd - but I'm not holding my breath" O.

With me, it's split about 50-50. I have 2 friends my age who don't buy DVDs at all. They just watch whatever is on. Too lazy or they just don't care or too cheap. Whatever the reason. Then I have a couple of other friends, one who's 53, the other 56, and whenver I speak to them all they do is complain about why isn't Ben Casey or Dr. Kildare or The Millionaire or Mr. Novak out on DVD. None of the 4 are what you would call hardcore collectors, of which I know many. But they're in a different category. But the latter 2 were among the first people I knew who had bought VHS decks in early 1978 when they first came out. It boils down to some people are pro-active in terms of their viewing while others are passive and just accept whatever is conveniently available to them, regardless.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Brock

With me, it's split about 50-50. I have 2 friends my age who don't buy DVDs at all. They just watch whatever is on. Too lazy or they just don't care or too cheap. Whatever the reason. Then I have a couple of other friends, one who's 53, the other 56, and whenver I speak to them all they do is complain about why isn't Ben Casey or Dr. Kildare or The Millionaire or Mr. Novak out on DVD. None of the 4 are what you would call hardcore collectors, of which I know many. But they're in a different category. But the latter 2 were among the first people I knew who had bought VHS decks in early 1978 when they first came out. It boils down to some people are pro-active in terms of their viewing while others are passive and just accept whatever is conveniently available to them, regardless.

I think you're spot on with those thoughts, Neil. It really is an individual attitude and personality type thing. I do think you have a unique situation as far as the percentages go with your friends. For it to be 50/50 is incredible, but if I was to wager on a larger sample size I'd have to believe that there are far more people our age (mid 40's to mid-50's) who are more content to watch current TV rather than seek out vintage shows on dvd. I know an awful lot of people in my age bracket who just don't get into the older material even though they grew up on it. If they buy dvds at all, they tend to buy current fare. Depressing but true.

Boy I'd love to have any of the four series your two friends are clamoring for. Everyone knows I'm a huge Christmas-themed episodes nut and Dr. Kildare has a couple of very good ones, especially the first season entry. And I doubt I'll ever see The Millionaire Christmas episode, unless it does somehow get a dvd release. As best I can determine the Christmas episode is MIA from collectors, which I'm guessing is because that episode wasn't seen in syndication as much as the other episodes were. Could be wrong on that, but it's my best guess.


Gary "some people think all the 'best' 50's-60's material has already been released, but they couldn't be more wrong - there's still some great series that need releasing" O.

 

[Neil Brock]

Originally Posted by Gary OS

Quote:


IGary "some people think all the 'best' 50's-60's material has already been released, but they couldn't be more wrong - there's still some great series that need releasing" O.

Let's talk about the series that are still MIA from the 50s and 60s. Because you are right, there are still quite a few of them. And I'm not going to include the great shorter run ones (less than 2 full seasons).

1950s: Burns and Allen, Jack Benny Program, Life of Riley, Dobie Gillis, Phil Silvers Show, My Little Margie, Gale Storm Show, Private Secretary, The Ann Sothern Show, Bachelor Father, People's Choice, Love That Bob, Our Miss Brooks, December Bride, Hennesey, Racket Squad, Dragnet, I Married Joan, Ozzie and Harriet (season sets), Make Room For Daddy (seasons 1-4, 7-11), Topper, The Ray Milland Show, Rin Tin Tin, Dennis The Menace, The Lineup (San Francisco Beat), Broken Arrow, Trackdown, Fury, Circus Boy, Navy Log, Science Fiction Theatre, Highway Patrol, Sea Hunt, I Led 3 Lives, State Trooper, Sheriff of Cochise/U.S. Marshall, Maverick, Cheyenne, Bronco, Sugarfoot, Lawman, Colt 45, 77 Sunset Strip, Hawaiian Eye, Tombstone Territory, Wild Bill Hickock, Bat Masterson, The Thin Man, How to Marry a Millionaire, The Rebel, Adventures in Paradise, Fireside Theatre, G.E. Theatre, Four Star Playhouse, Richard Diamond, Annie Oakley, Lock Up. Lassie,

1960s: National Velvet, Surside 6, Pete and Gladys, Outlaws, The Deputy, Robert Taylor's Detectives, Dick Powell Show, Desilu Playhouse, Alcoa Premiere, Car 54 Where Are You, Dr. Kildare, Ben Casey, The Defenders, The Eleventh Hour, The Nurses, Farmer's Daughter, Mr. Novak, Kraft Suspense Theatre, Bob Hope Chrysler Theatre, Ripcord, Twelve O'Clock High, The FBI, Run for your Life, Please Don't Eat the Daisies, The Felony Squad, Daktari, Tarzan, Batman, Gentle Ben, High Chaparral, N.Y.P.D., Judd for the Defense, Mayberry R.F.D, Julia, Lancer, It Takes a Thief, Name of the Game, The Ghost and Mrs. Muir, To Rome with Love, The Bold Ones, Marcus Welby MD, Medical Center, The Courtship of Eddie's Father, Nanny and the Professor.

 

[Doug^Ch]

Originally Posted by smithb

Doug,

As an add-on. What do you think about the comparison between radio Gunsmoke and the TV show? I never watched the show prior to seeing the first season in the last year or so. But I have to say, I think William Conrad makes a better Matt Dillon. Kitty and Chester play about the same to me across the two. And while I liked Doc in the TV show, I like him better in the radio program. I think "Floyd the Barber from the Andy Griffith Show" brings in much more personality. So while I like both I'm leaning towards the radio show as being the better of the two. The only bad part is that they share many of the same scripts. At least that can be bad if you watch/listen to both.

Brad, we also have a long commute in common (mine is a little over an hour on a good day). I, like you, got tired of the music, and talk/news on the radio. (I recently cancelled my satalite radio subscription) Old time radio on Mp3 has been a godsend. One disc can last 24 hours, and also my car (2009 Honda Fit) has a USB port in the glove box and can play from a flash drive. I can put enough old time radio on a cheap thumb drive to last a year in my car without ever having to add more material. Right now I am alternating between Gunsmoke and Dragnet.

I grew up with gunsmoke on TV and it was my favorite television show as a kid - it was the only night of the week that my folks would let me stay up late to watch the set. I only recently discovered Gunsmoke on the radio. I am about a hundred episodes into it, and would have to agree with you that Bill Conrad was a better Matt Dillon. He was a brilliant radio actor. It took me a little while to develop an ear for radio shows, but now that I have, it is great entertainment medium.

I will continue to support any company that wants to take a chance on putting a classic show on DVD. Right now I am enjoying The Barbara Stanwyck Show, a really rare little gem of a set, that I can't believe has ever seen the light of day. I think that releases such as these are soon to completely dry up. There has got to be a better way to distribute these classic shows that don't put the manufacturers at such risk. We can't expect them to put these sets out at a loss. There just is not enough of us out there to support wide spread releases of these kind of shows.

 

[smithb]

Doug,

We are on the same wavelength right now. I just got my Barbara Stanwyck Show a few days ago. I had minor scuffs marks on the last disk so I ended up watching the last 5 episodes over the last two nights to ensure no issues with the disk. I'm enjoying it a lot. I read a review somewhere complaining that the 30 minute format was too short for these types of shows. But after watching I'd have to disagree. I think they did a great job with these scripts. No fluff whatsoever. Now I got to go back and watch the first 10.

I probably have some 20+ of Barbara Stanwyck's movies. She didn't seem to quite get the credit she deserved. I'm not sure why this show stopped after only one season, but at least Big Valley came only a few years later.

Unfortunately, my car is to old for mp3 capabilities. In the beginning to try it all out I converted some mp3's to CD but obviously that didn't last long because I could only fit a few shows on a CD. After that I purchased a cheap mp3 player and one of those cassette tape converters (yes my car is 10 years old so I can still support cassettes), and now I have 70+ episodes available at a time.

It will be a shame if shows like these aren't available to future generations. I know I'm buying up all I can while it is available.

 

[Kevin Segura]

OK-- here's the word:

I can't speak for everything in the set, but "Requiem" is indeed the very same transfer as used for the laserdisc edition, with minimal corrections made (a slight tint to the original transfer was removed, and the sound was re-synched, that sort of thing.) No serious effort was made to stabilize the image, or to remove considerable dirt and moire artifacts in the transfer.

And then there's the whole lack of LiveFeed thing...

With all due respect to the original reviewer, when one considers that this is a release from The Criterion Company, I think this set is a travesty, and a big smack in the face to anyone that is a devotee of classic television. While a release of this quality might have been passable in say, 1985, this is the year 2009-- it's inexcusable for a company that heavily trades on its customer's passion for quality presentation to essentially ignore 25 years of advances in restoration technology. (And this from a set that lists 8 different restoration technicians **and** a QC Manager!)

For those who have the original laserdisc sets.. take heart-- there's no need to buy this. Just as with "the Fugitive" and "My Three Sons", there's nothing to be gained by encouraging companies to release substandard product, when they're fully capable of providing something vastly superior.