Could the original, unaltered STAR WARS be on its way to Blu-ray? (1 Viewer)

[Dr Griffin]

You're the one that suddenly joined this forum yesterday, have only posted in this thread, and have consistently used a fairly argumentative tone in your posts thus far. Seems kinda trollish to me.

Yep. There's been more of that on the forum too. Probably all the same person.

 

[Yorkshire]

Yes, I can see that, in one respect, Lucas can (or at least could) do what he wanted with them.


But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be nice to listen to the people who've made him rich. Very, very rich.


One thing though, I do wonder how popular the original, unaltered trilogy would be.


In general, I don't feel there's a real clamour for them outside the hardcore fanbase. I'd go as far as to suggest that many, if not most people don't realise they've been substantially altered. But I'd guess an intelligent advertising campaign could whip up a lot of interest.


Steve W

 

[Mike Boone]

This is a pretty silly argument. There would be no audience for the film without the film created by Lucas. As paying members of the audience, you have no ownership over the films aside from the right to watch the films by purchasing a ticket or a copy of the film. You can't expect artists to bow down to the demands of their admirers. Imagine a famous painter changing the color of a skyline in a painting because a few of his admirers don't like the color he used originally. It's absurd.

You also don't seem to think that our fellow member, Carabimero, makes a good point (I think he does) that simply from an archival standpoint,

the original version of Star Wars that was nominated for a number of Oscars, should be available to be referenced by people because it is part of film history, and that history is not complete if people who study films cannot access the exact version that was given those Oscar nominations. How can you deny that people should be able to see exactly what the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences was looking at in judging that Star Wars was worthy of such recognition? As far as the Academy is concerned, what its members saw when evaluating Star Wars is the official version of the film, and thus, is the only version that can honestly be claimed to be a multiple Oscar nominee, as well as the winner of a few Oscars.


Some folks were not very happy when Steven Spielberg altered ET for video release, with such changes as eliminating the guns seen in the hands of the government agents who are trying to catch the kids, in the original film. But when bringing ET to Blu-ray, Mr Spielberg decided to transfer the film to Blu-ray in the exact original version that was a huge hit with audiences when it was released in theaters in 1982.


It's too bad that Mr Lucas did not have the same good sense, as well as respect for the audience, that his friend, Steven Spielberg demonstrated in presenting ET in the form originally loved by audiences. But then again, the far greater variety and depth of Mr Spielberg's various creations, compared to the relatively limited range of the works of Mr Lucas, may just indicate that Steven Spielberg has a lot more sense, anyway.

 

[Salacious Ackbar]

You're the one that suddenly joined this forum yesterday, have only posted in this thread, and have consistently used a fairly argumentative tone in your posts thus far. Seems kinda trollish to me.

Hardly. Argumentative? No. Just passionate and informed.

 

[Salacious Ackbar]

You also don't seem to think that our fellow member, Carabimero, makes a good point (I think he does) that simply from an archival standpoint,

the original version of Star Wars that was nominated for a number of Oscars, should be available to be referenced by people because it is part of film history, and that history is not complete if people who study films cannot access the exact version that was given those Oscar nominations. How can you deny that people should be able to see exactly what the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences was looking at in judging that Star Wars was worthy of such recognition? As far as the Academy is concerned, what its members saw when evaluating Star Wars is the official version of the film, and thus, is the only version that can honestly be claimed to be a multiple Oscar nominee, as well as the winner of a few Oscars.


Some folks were not very happy when Steven Spielberg altered ET for video release, with such changes as eliminating the guns seen in the hands of the government agents who are trying to catch the kids, in the original film. But when bringing ET to Blu-ray, Mr Spielberg decided to transfer the film to Blu-ray in the exact original version that was a huge hit with audiences when it was released in theaters in 1982.


It's too bad that Mr Lucas did not have the same good sense, as well as respect for the audience, that his friend, Steven Spielberg demonstrated in presenting ET in the form originally loved by audiences. But then again, the far greater variety and depth of Mr Spielberg's various creations, compared to the relatively limited range of the works of Mr Lucas, may just indicate that Steven Spielberg has a lot more sense, anyway.

What the Oscars award is of little consequence, especially since Lucas has always been against Hollywood and is very anti-establishment. And since they are employees of Lucasfilm, they have little say in what version gets released. They were paid for a job by the artist who had the vision to create the material they were working on to begin with. Of course their work was impressive, especially for their time, but it's not up to them, nor is it a slap in the face. They recognized the defects in the opticals and effects work of the day, but at the time there was no technological way to get around it, so they had to compromise. Lucas thankfully no longer has to compromise and updated his movie to be closer to what he wanted originally.


What's funny about your analogy is that Spielberg ignored the 2002 special edition version when transferring to Blu-ray, so those that prefer that version are in a similar boat as those who want the original versions of Star Wars. Why not go on a crusade against Spielberg for ignoring a version of his film that was released theatrically and quite successful in its own right? Oh that's right, because you don't like that version, completely ignoring the fact that others might.

 

[Worth]

...You can't expect artists to bow down to the demands of their admirers. Imagine a famous painter changing the color of a skyline in a painting because a few of his admirers don't like the color he used originally. It's absurd.

It's more like an artist painting a blue sky, completing the work to his satisfaction, selling it to you, then barging in several years later and changing the colour to green, claiming that's the way he had always wanted it to be, but that the technology to create that shade of green didn't exist when he originally painted the work.

 

[TravisR]

I'd go as far as to suggest that many, if not most people don't realise they've been substantially altered.

It's an unpopular theory but I think once the originals came out again, a lot of 'regular' people would be pretty disappointed by the 1977 effects work and prefer most of the changes that have been made. I've even seen people here at HTF say how they want Han to shoot first or no rontos in Mos Eisley but they'd still want the CG space battle so if you can find that kind of thing here, I can only imagine that the real world would think the same just in greater numbers.

Hardly. Argumentative? No. Just passionate and informed.

Basically everyone on this board is aware that the Blu-rays sold a ton of copies so I don't think you're any more informed than anyone else here. And when you join and immediately start to argue with people, it tends to make you look argumentative. Unfortunately, people (including myself) are indulging you.

 

[Salacious Ackbar]

It's more like an artist painting a blue sky, completing the work to his satisfaction, selling it to you, then barging in several years later and changing the colour to green, claiming that's the way he had always wanted it to be, but that the technology to create that shade of green didn't exist when he originally painted the work.

And if that were the case, you still wouldn't have any say in the matter.

 

[Mike Boone]

Josh, with all due respect, the last paragraph of your post that mentions the 2002 special edition of ET, and compares it with the way in which versions of Star Wars have been released, does not accomplish anything toward disproving my point.


The basic point is that fans of ET can now acquire the original version of the film, while fans of Star Wars cannot.

 

[Joel Fontenot]

Hardly. Argumentative? No. Just passionate and informed.

And so are we. We aren't going to convince you and you won't convince us.


But this thread wasn't started to have this argument in the first place. It was just a speculative wish that got started from vague rumors of restoration work. I don't think it ever got into an argument of why the original should be released vs, why it shouldn't be.


At least, not until you came into this thread... so there you go.


We were only discussing if and how it could be released if it ever was. That was all.


There are several examples of directors letting the original versions of their films be made available on the latest home video formats along with their "preferred directors cuts". Lucas just decided to not be one of those. I think he's just being hard headed.


Maybe the Disney deal will change that. Maybe it won't.


I hope it does because I have NOT bought any Blu-ray of any Star Wars movie. I don't care enough for the prequel trilogy to upgrade my current DVD set, and I'm not buying the original trilogy in any HD until the original versions also made available. I do have the DVD release with the original versions as "extras" only because my laserdisc player was dying - so, it's sort of my way of maintaining at least some version of the original film. BTW, in my house, when I play Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, or The Return of the Jedi - it's those non-anamorphic DVDs that gets played (of course, I ripped them, re-encoded into 16x9 and re-burned to DVD-R so I don't have to worry about zooming the picture and cutting off the captions) . And guess what - my 18-year-old and my 6-year-old are fine with it.

 

[Dr Griffin]

Sounds like somebody's viewpoint got lost in the shuffel (or banned) over at another forum , and came here to take out their frustrations. What a way to start off your membership - I'll bet the house it doesn't last. As soon as they realize that crap is not tolerated here, they'll go away (but probably show up again under yet another username) , as is probably already the case, because this sounds all too familiar. Who joins a forum, then comes in with both guns blazing? Somebody that has familiarity already, hmmm?

 

[FoxyMulder]

Lucas thankfully no longer has to compromise and updated his movie to be closer to what he wanted originally.

The problem i have is that he did compromise, he made basic errors with the CGI and with the alterations when creating the special editions, errors that still exist, if you are going to change things using CGI because you want to update your films then at least do it right, as an example i give you the Jabba scene, it shouldn't be in the film, it should be a deleted scene, it does not advance the storyline because the Cantina bar scene has already told the viewers what they need to know and the Jabba scene just replicates it.


Some of the CGI additions now look more dated than some of the original effects work, why didn't George update this CGI using the latest advancements for the blu ray release, all we got was a silly noooooooooo and R2-D2 hiding behind a rock although no explanation how he managed that one, those alterations added nothing to the story, he went cheap, he didn't bother doing new 4K scans of the original trilogy so we have frozen grain on Tatooine in the first movie when the droids are walking in the desert, frozen grain that does not look film like at all and can be seen in the sequels too at various points.


It's the old Lowry before they perfected their craft, if George really cared he would have spent a few million on perfecting the CGI to modern standards and making sure the very best transfers were released on blu ray, instead he went cheap, he milked us again, i bought it as did many others but he still milked us and the original Star Wars trilogy are nowhere near as good as they could look on blu ray, he knew he would make hundreds of millions of dollars in the first week of release but didn't want to spend a few million on new 4K scans and updated FX work, he could have spent $20m and still made massive profits, i call that cheap and lazy.


Here's a thought, keep the menacing Boba Fett voice from the original Empire Strikes Back and replace the Aussie actors voice in Attack of the Clones and Sith, i'd be much happier if they did that than what they actually did, they weakened that character by the voice replacement, what was once a menacing tough guy is now just another Aussie drinking a can of Fosters.


Now having said the above i do like some of the CGI changes, the Death Star explosion, the battle scenes at the end and several other additions, the problem is that some of it looks very cheap and low quality, some of the edited changes just don't work and they also weaken the films instead of making them stronger.


For 2017 Disney and Fox need to work it out and release ultimate Star Wars original editions, by that i mean the original films as seen at cinemas and using the 70mm blow up 6 track for sound, also use the original Dolby Stereo mix, i would also release a final updated CGI version of each film and iron out the CGI issues and remove the redundant Jabba scene, also while they are at it go back to the 35mm Interpositive of The Phantom Menace and this time leave the film grain and detail intact.


P.S. Han didn't shoot first, he was the only one who shot.

 

[Brian Dobbs]

One thing though, I do wonder how popular the original, unaltered trilogy would be.

Can you imagine the marketing campaign though?


Now, for the first time in 20 years, HAN SHOOTS FIRST!

 

[Carlo_M]

Can you imagine the marketing campaign though?


Now, for the first time in 20 years, HAN SHOOTS FIRST IS THE ONLY ONE WHO SHOOTS!

FTFY


PS - I tried to warn you all earlier...

 

[TravisR]

as an example i give you the Jabba scene, it shouldn't be in the film, it should be a deleted scene, it does not advance the storyline because the Cantina bar scene has already told the viewers what they need to know and the Jabba scene just replicates it.

Yep. Once the Jabba scene was dropped while editing the original release, they made sure that the info from that scene was given to Greedo when they reshot parts of that character's scene with a better & more articulated mask.

 

[Mike Boone]

Anyhow, if not this year, eventually the original version of Star Wars will be made available. If George Lucas had maintained rights to the franchise, it was inevitable that one day he would have milked more money out of his enterprise by putting out the original version. And so it is with Disney. Maybe when interest in the Star Wars series finally seems to be in serious decline, Disney will make a big deal out of promoting a special edition of A New Hope, that really won't be new, at last.

 

[Dr Griffin]

FTFY


PS - I tried to warn you all earlier...

I lost track a long time ago.

 

[Carlo_M]

I lost track a long time ago.

In a galaxy...far far away?

 

[albert_m2]

Hardly. Argumentative? No. Just passionate and informed.

One can be passionate and informed (but certainly not everyone is informed that claim to be) and also join a forum and instantly troll and be argumentative on day one.

 

[Simon Massey]

Hardly. Argumentative? No. Just passionate and informed.

This argument has been going on for nigh on 15 years and has been hashed and rehashed on this forum ad infinitum by many forum members on here who are both passionate AND informed about Star Wars, myself included. I find it very unlikely that you are going to add anything that has not been said by both sides of the debate or that you are going to change any minds and since the tone of this particular thread has been far more speculative than argumentative, it might be worth approaching it like that.