A Few Words About A few words about…™ Star Wars: A New Hope — in 4k UHD Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Bryan^H]

The way George Lucas used the success of Star Wars to fight studio control of his film TESB is legendary, and brilliant.

 

[PMF]

Here some good info on Ratings by the MPA(A).

Motion Picture Association film rating system - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

What options? Told by who? When. Where. How.

Wiki has its usefulness and always serves as a good starting point for deeper researches.

Told by whom? No one from HTF. Not free to say, either; which is why I had invited other HTF members from the inside to verify, confirm or dismiss. I didn’t state it as fact, I only stated that this insight was told to me - in a factual, yet benign manner - while working with a set crew for a month, back in 1991. Finis.

 

[Chewbabka]

I certainly enjoyed RotJ as a ~13-yo, but yeah, definitely less so than ESB (when I was ~10). Still, what fan doesn't love that overall ending (outside of some very minor details perhaps)?

The ending for the recent sequel trilogy OTOH is just utterly awful and plain garbage.

_Man_

I understand the issues people have with the Ewoks sequence on Endor after Luke and Vader leave the moon, but I really don’t mind it too much, and everything in the throne room is so fantastic that I couldn’t care less about the rest anyway.

 

[Denham]

I like the way plastic saint Luke is too good to get his hands dirty with anything too morally dubious, and hews to the horsepuck Jedi philosophy Yoda pontificates.
Good thing for him the most evil character in the first two films suddenly does a completely unmerited and unfounded 180 to save his useless hide.

Oh right, Luke is so good and pure that he was a beacon of light that reached into Vader's suppressed, formerly child slaughtering, daughter torturing, genocidal soul.

I'm sorry. Where so many see powerful feeling, I see saccharine and insipid sentimentality that is a harder to swallow fantasy than anything else in these movies.
To me, this nonsense is a betrayal of the thought and effort that went into fleshing out these characters. In the prior film especially.

Everything about this film will always be a lazy and uninspired cash-out to me. And that goes double for the Luke/Vader plot line/resolution.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I was the target age in 1977 and in 1980, and Empire was received enthusiastically by everyone I knew. The reviews were very good (I recall the NY Daily News saying that "the open-ended Empire promises more to come," which was just about the best news I could have heard). Empire expanded the Star Wars universe in ways those of us who only had the first movie (plus one novel and some comic books) could have imagined. To this day, I think it's my favorite because of how it demonstrated the potential of that universe (and for growing the characters and not making a retread).

So, I object to anyone saying Empire wasn't received well. I recall it being received very well. Now, Return of the Jedi, on the other hand,...

Yeah, this "'ESB' wasn't liked in 1980" stuff is weird revisionist history.

Crud, there was a sentiment it got snubbed due to its lack of Oscar BP nomination. Not what woulda been the case if it'd been disliked.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I was told that there were open options if a film was given a “G” rating.

Wait - you're saying that if the MPAA gave a movie a "G", the studio could say "nah - we're goin' with 'R' instead"?

That seems... farfetched.

 

[Worth]

...I'm sorry. Where so many see powerful feeling, I see saccharine and insipid sentimentality that is a harder to swallow fantasy than anything else in these movies.
To me, this nonsense is a betrayal of the thought and effort that went into fleshing out these characters. In the prior film especially.

I agree. I think one of the worst decisions Lucas made was shifting the focus of the story to make it about the redemption of Darth Vader.

 

[Jeff F.]

Yeah, this "'ESB' wasn't liked in 1980" stuff is weird revisionist history.

Actually, after waiting three years for the follow up to Star Wars, I initially was pissed off after seeing ESB. It basically ends abruptly on a cliffhanger, and I had never seen a theatrical movie up until that time that ended like that. I wasn't happy that I'd have to wait another three years to see how it all turned out. Still one of my favorite Star Wars films.

 

[PMF]

Wait - you're saying that if the MPAA gave a movie a "G", the studio could say "nah - we're goin' with 'R' instead"?

That seems... farfetched.

MPAA originally gave All The Presidents Men an “R” and, without edits of the “F” word, permitted a PG rating to occur on its opening day, due to the film’s historical significance.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

In the case of AtPM, I believe the studio and producers appealed the initial "R" decision and received the PG instead.

 

[Wayne Klein]

I know that Empire was very successful with audiences and critics but at the time of release, you'd be hard-pressed to find that many people saying that they liked the second movie more than the first.

I disagree. I'm not going to say that they liked it more than the first but many thought it was as good as the first.

 

[Wayne Klein]

Wait - you're saying that if the MPAA gave a movie a "G", the studio could say "nah - we're goin' with 'R' instead"?

That seems... farfetched.

yeah the only open options was to recut the film or remove whatever they objected to.

 

[TravisR]

Yeah, this "'ESB' wasn't liked in 1980" stuff is weird revisionist history.

Is anyone in this thread saying that Empire wasn't liked in 1980 though? I know I haven't said anything close to that.

I agree. I think one of the worst decisions Lucas made was shifting the focus of the story to make it about the redemption of Darth Vader.

No, no that was his plan the whole time.

 

[JoshZ]

Yeah, this "'ESB' wasn't liked in 1980" stuff is weird revisionist history.

Crud, there was a sentiment it got snubbed due to its lack of Oscar BP nomination. Not what woulda been the case if it'd been disliked.

I think a lot of this perspective may be a matter of how old viewers were at the time they saw it. I can tell you from experience, not just my own from the early '80s but as a parent introducing my own kids to Star Wars more recently, that the darker entries like Empire Strikes Back and (later) Rogue One still to this day go over like a lead balloon with most children. It'll probably take them a bunch of years before they begin to appreciate those.

 

[Wayne Klein]

In the case of AtPM, I believe the studio and producers appealed the initial "R" decision and received the PG instead.

That makes sense. Especially given the nature of the story and the use of the F word.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Actually, after waiting three years for the follow up to Star Wars, I initially was pissed off after seeing ESB. It basically ends abruptly on a cliffhanger, and I had never seen a theatrical movie up until that time that ended like that. I wasn't happy that I'd have to wait another three years to see how it all turned out. Still one of my favorite Star Wars films.

I was 13 in 1980 and never felt like "ESB" ended on an actual cliffhanger.

As someone else in this thread noted, it leaves some threads open for pursuits, but that's not "cliffhanger" as much as "open ended".

"Back to the Future II"? That "ending" cheesed me off. Crud, the movie literally concluded with a trailer for the next one!

But I didn't groan at the end of "ESB". It felt like an "actual ending", even if it did point toward the next chapter.

And I didn't know anyone else frustrated by the ending. Anecdotal, for sure, but I never got a sense there was mass frustration/annoyance that "ESB" didn't wrap up with a bow.

If anything, it just made us more excited to see the next movie.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

MPAA originally gave All The Presidents Men an “R” and, without edits of the “F” word, permitted a PG rating to occur on its opening day, due to the film’s historical significance.

Different topic altogether.

MPAA still decided the rating. They didn't let the studio choose.

Plenty of movies have had MPAA change ratings after appeals.

That's not MPAA saying "we wanna give you a 'G' but we'll let you decide!"

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I think a lot of this perspective may be a matter of how old viewers were at the time they saw it. I can tell you from experience, not just my own from the early '80s but as a parent introducing my own kids to Star Wars more recently, that the darker entries like Empire Strikes Back and (later) Rogue One still to this day go over like a lead balloon with most children. It'll probably take them a bunch of years before they begin to appreciate those.

Yeah, I can see younger kids might be a little turned off by "ESB", though "lead balloon" feels extreme. Seems like there's still enough fun and adventure for the pre-10 crowd to not hate it.

I don't like "Rogue One", so I'm with the kids there!

Anyway, my point is that there was sentiment "ESB" was snubbed and deserved a Best Picture nod, which counteracts the notion "ESB" wasn't critically appreciated in its time.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Is anyone in this thread saying that Empire wasn't liked in 1980 though? I know I haven't said anything close to that.

Not gonna review the whole thread, but I got the impression some here think the movie wasn't well-received in 1980.

There's the view that it's revisionist history or it got appreciated in the 90s but wasn't much liked in 1980.

 

[Robert Crawford]

When I watched The Empire Strikes Back in 1980, I remembered it being well received by critics and people alike including those of us that watched the first movie in 1977. I immediately thought it was better than Star Wars. Almost 45 years later, I still feel that way. I was in college when the original movie was released but graduated and working in another area of the country when the second film came out.