What's new

TravisR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
42,641
Location
The basement of the FBI building
On the contrary, critical opinions at the time preferred the film and the gross for the film argues otherwise. Now, maybe kids disliked it but, even as the middle child of the three, the ending was strong enough to still have positive review. If it was truly not liked, they would not have lined up for the third film. it was a hat trick that they managed to pull Off.
I know that Empire was very successful with audiences and critics but at the time of release, you'd be hard-pressed to find that many people saying that they liked the second movie more than the first.
 

Osato

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2001
Messages
8,400
Real Name
Tim
Funny this thread popped up for me.

I watched the film with my sons last night. We really enjoyed seeing the 4k disc. I’ve seen the film so many times but it was fun to watch with my sons who have only seen it once before.

One thing I noticed last night that I never recalled was during the Death Star conference room scenes there is an energy pulsing sound in the mix. I had never noticed this before!

One other notice was on the falcon search. The troopers state “there’s no one here”. I couldn’t recall when that line was added but I didn’t recall hearing it before. I know there has been many versions of this film made since and including 1977. As I recall there was multiple audio mixes theatrically…

I’m sure we will watch empire and Jedi again soon too. I did take my youngest to the 40th Anniversary screening of Jedi last year.

Ok. Now back to debating which Star Wars movie is the best one……
 

ScottRE

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
3,396
Location
New York, Planet Earth
Real Name
Scott
I'm not gonna go crazy arguing the point but I prefer Star Wars because it is just pure entertainment and fun. With the original, there's no cliffhanger and no plan for nine or twelve sequels or prequels. George was just making a kids movie and he pulled it off under difficult circumstances while also revolutionizing special effects and he made an incredibly entertaining movie that is beloved by millions of people.
I don't feel, or have ever felt, that 1977 Star Wars was a "kid's movie." It was, though, for "the kid in all of us." It crossed generations and appealed to all ages. Pure "kid's movies" don't do that. This was a space fantasy for all ages.

Of the three, "Return of the Jedi" is closest to a kid's movie. "Empire" is furthest, a more mature film in every respect.

If Empire "better" than Star Wars? I don't know. I have read that Lucas wanted someone to make a better movie than his original. Star Wars was a simple film. It was meant to be. A coming of age space fantasy of a boy, a girl and the galaxy. Good vs Evil. A fun night at the movies. Empire had to be deeper for the series to survive. It was. It raised the bar dramatically and raised the personal stakes. Was the cliffhanger unsatisfying? Not to me. Not then, not ever. It's not a cliffhanger. It's a "oh snap what next?!" ending. The main story was concluded and the rebels took a HUGE pasting. They were lucky just to escape with their lives. But a cliffhanger ending is an ending before the story of that particular film is complete, with fates totally up in the air. Flash Gordon falling to his doom, or Crash Corrigan's car careening off a cliff. Empire ends with the motivation for the next chapter. To this day, I love how Empire ends. It fills me with a joy and energy that few films can. The entire film is a joy from start to finish with very few, if any, dull moments. Honestly, I can't say that about Star Wars, the droid trek across the dune sea is a bit tedious for me. Once they meet Luke, it picks back up. I know it's necessary and even realistic, but it's not nearly as interesting as Taylor, Landon and Dodge's desert crossing in Planet of the Apes.

Return of the Jedi, though, is a toy commercial and a fairly disappointing one on a few levels. Rescuing Han wasn't as tense as it could have been, the musical numbers were silly and the creatures were more fake and cutesy than those in the original film. The Ewoks are dire and, I dunno, Han totally lost his roguish edge while in carbon freeze. However, the Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes were like a different film. And the rebel battle was electrifying. After the greatness of the first two films, ROTJ was a disappointment.

This was the summer of 1983 and the sequels weren't really hitting them out of the park that year. Superman III was bouncing around that same summer as was Octopussy. Everything was about jokes and appealing to kids for the franchises. Luckily, a year later, we'd be back to Indy Jones and still serious Star Trek movies.

Having said all of that, I wouldn't trade my childhood films for anything. And back on topic, Star Wars and Empire are, for me, equally great. But they are totally and tonally different films. Perfect in so many ways and still contain some of the greatest film music ever composed.
 
Last edited:

Sam Favate

Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
13,125
Real Name
Sam Favate
I was the target age in 1977 and in 1980, and Empire was received enthusiastically by everyone I knew. The reviews were very good (I recall the NY Daily News saying that "the open-ended Empire promises more to come," which was just about the best news I could have heard). Empire expanded the Star Wars universe in ways those of us who only had the first movie (plus one novel and some comic books) could have imagined. To this day, I think it's my favorite because of how it demonstrated the potential of that universe (and for growing the characters and not making a retread).

So, I object to anyone saying Empire wasn't received well. I recall it being received very well. Now, Return of the Jedi, on the other hand,...
 

Dave H

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2000
Messages
6,203
Not a big fan of the DNR, but A New Hope looks absolutely stunning on UHD BD. They avoided that plastic look while there is still a ton of finer detail in there (some of which I've never seen before). I also like the color timing, shadows, contrast, and reserved HDR approach.

I feel like Empire got hit with worse DNR for some reason.
 

Lord Dalek

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Messages
7,130
Real Name
Joel Henderson
Wasn't there an old anecdote about George having to fight the MPAA to keep them from giving New Hope a G rating in 1977?
 

Lord Dalek

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Messages
7,130
Real Name
Joel Henderson
I know that Empire was very successful with audiences and critics but at the time of release, you'd be hard-pressed to find that many people saying that they liked the second movie more than the first.
And then Jedi briefly usurped general opinion as "the best one" for a while.
 

Peter Apruzzese

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 20, 1999
Messages
4,956
Real Name
Peter Apruzzese
Wasn't there an old anecdote about George having to fight the MPAA to keep them from giving New Hope a G rating in 1977?

As I remember it, he added the closeup of the bloody dismembered arm in the Cantina scene and the closer shot of the burning corpses of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru to get the PG.
 

TravisR

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
42,641
Location
The basement of the FBI building
And then Jedi briefly usurped general opinion as "the best one" for a while.
Without question, that was the feeling amongst any kid I knew back then too- Jabba's palace, speeder bikes, a better space battle and the good guys win. The first time I heard the idea that Empire was the better movie was in Clerks. No doubt a million people felt that before 1994 but after Clerks, it became an according to Hoyle rule on the internet and eventually trickled down to casual SW fans and mainstream audiences.
 

PMF

Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 6, 2015
Messages
6,011
Real Name
Philip
Wasn't there an old anecdote about George having to fight the MPAA to keep them from giving New Hope a G rating in 1977?
It was once of my understanding that if a movie was given a “G” rating by MPAA, that the studios had the freedoms to place any GP, PG, PG-13, R, M or NC-17 upon their films, if they felt inclined to do so. Does anyone else amongst us also have a recollection of this option for the studios?
 
Last edited:

Tino

Taken For Ballast
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 1999
Messages
23,822
Location
Metro NYC
Real Name
Valentino
It was once of my understanding that if a movie was given a “G” rating by MPAA, that the studios had the freedoms to place any GP, PG, PG-13, R, M or NC-17 upon their films, if they felt inclined to do so. Does anyone else amongst us also have a recollection of this option for the studios?
The MPAA rates films. Not the studios. Films are simply submitted for a rating.
 

PMF

Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 6, 2015
Messages
6,011
Real Name
Philip
The MPAA rates films. Not the studios. Films are simply submitted for a rating.
Too soon to make that definitive call, my good Tino. What I speak of was once known to me, dating back to 1991. Unable to address anything thereafter.
 
Last edited:

Tino

Taken For Ballast
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 1999
Messages
23,822
Location
Metro NYC
Real Name
Valentino
Too soon to make that definitive call, my good Tino. What I speak of was once known to me dating back to 1991. Unable to address anything thereafter.
Sorry not following you. What was once known to you?
 
  • Like
Reactions: PMF

Tino

Taken For Ballast
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 1999
Messages
23,822
Location
Metro NYC
Real Name
Valentino
Options for the studios, after MPAA submitted their ratings of a film..
So you’re saying you believe a studio was allowed to rate their film anything they wanted?
 

PMF

Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 6, 2015
Messages
6,011
Real Name
Philip
So you’re saying you believe a studio was allowed to rate their film anything they wanted?
I was told that there were open options if a film was given a “G” rating.
 

Tino

Taken For Ballast
Premium
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 19, 1999
Messages
23,822
Location
Metro NYC
Real Name
Valentino
I was told that there were open options if a film was given a “G” rating.
What options? Told by who? When. Where. How. Inquiring minds want to know!🤪
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: PMF

Users who are viewing this thread

Sign up for our newsletter

and receive essential news, curated deals, and much more







You will only receive emails from us. We will never sell or distribute your email address to third party companies at any time.

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
357,616
Messages
5,142,140
Members
144,430
Latest member
Richard64
Recent bookmarks
0
Top