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Watchmen (HBO) Season One

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by Josh Dial, Oct 20, 2019.

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  1. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    Have you read the Watchmen comic book? It’s wholly a sequel to that book and so much context is lost without it. HBO and the showrunners say that you don’t need to read it to understand the show but I’m not sure I agree with that assessment.
     
  2. AcesHighStudios

    AcesHighStudios Stunt Coordinator

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    I live in Tulsa too, and have always been astounded at how few people have known about the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre until very recent years, but all of that was by design. I have been working on a documentary about the unjustified shootings of black people by white police officers, including Tulsa's own Terence Crutcher. The pastor of the historic Vernon A. M. E. Church, the only remaining structure from the Greenwood District devastation, told me once, "Always remember, when you're driving through Greenwood, you're driving through a crime scene."
     
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  3. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    I tend to agree but I think the biggest reason to read the comic before seeing the TV show is to know or be prepared for the style of the show. I don't blame anyone associated with the show for saying you don't need to read the comics because saying you need to do homework before seeing a TV show is a lousy way to sell your series. :)
     
  4. Walter Kittel

    Walter Kittel Lead Actor

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    As great as the finale of the episode was in terms of the reveal, the biggest WTF moment for me was the reveal of the elephant.

    My only exposure to the franchise was the Snyder film and snippets I've picked up on the internet, so yeah there are definitely things that are going over my head at times. (Off topic - I don't have Drax's reflexes, so I am unable to catch them. :) )

    - Walter.
     
  5. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Studio Mogul

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    I just enjoyed the literal metaphor of 'the elephant in the room' scene. LOL!

    I'm glad this is a weekly show, not a binge-able Netflix show, the weekly pacing just allows for more thought as the episodes roll on. The upcoming last 2 episodes for this season have turned into must-see TV for me.
     
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  6. Hollywoodaholic

    Hollywoodaholic Edge of Glory?

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    This is definitely one of the best things on right now (Mandaolorian a bit too comic book for me, ironically - visually good but simplistic dialogue and no chance for Pedro Pascal to really act or express facially),

    I'm going to dive back into the graphic novel again after it's over. And the ending music of "Life On Mars" also reminded me how much I loved that British series and may have to revisit it from my shelf (the American version I enjoyed, as well, but not as much - same with The Office.)
     
  7. Walter Kittel

    Walter Kittel Lead Actor

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    I enjoyed the US version of Life on Mars quite a bit when it aired on ABC. (Any show that features 'Little Willy' in one of its episodes is okay in my book.) I've never had the pleasure of viewing the UK version.

    - Walter.
     
  8. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    I don’t understand this at all.
    Many tv shows these days are just as good as movies in the sound department in comparison to watching a movie at home.

    I press a button and it all turns on, don’t have to choose tv sound instead of full surround sound.

    Anyway.

    I wasn’t sold on this show at the start as it just seemed another show about race and barely connected to the original story.

    But the more I watch the better it’s getting.

    Only 2 left and still so many things to think about.
     
  9. Walter Kittel

    Walter Kittel Lead Actor

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    I have a tendency to watch a lot of DVR'd programming late at night. And the use of the smaller speakers in the television is better suited for not disturbing others. Anything action or musically oriented I tend to watch earlier via the Receiver / Main speakers.

    - Walter.
     
  10. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    Oh.
     
  11. Message #91 of 131 Dec 5, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
    Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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    Just tell me where I can get a copy of "Sister Night: The Nun With the Mother&%$#@*! Gun!"

    I'll take VHS.

    Outstanding episode BTW.
     
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  12. AlexF

    AlexF Supporting Actor

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    Friend of mine has been watching it, never read the book, nor seen the movie.

    She's picking up on what's going on (more or less), with an understanding that there are events referenced that she knows are important, but she's getting enough information out of the show to understand the gist.

    I just loaned her my copy of the book, and she's planning to read it after episode 9, and then thinks that she'll watch it all again.
     
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  13. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    This episode really nailed the inscrutability of Doctor Manhattan. It's not that he's omnipotent; he's capable of surprise and capable of error. But his manner of experiencing cause and effect simultaneously means that how he evaluates importance is different than how anybody else evaluates importance.

    There is little question that he could have saved himself; as soon as he removed the device from his forehead, he could have teleported away to safety. But the outcome for Angela and the kids would have been suboptimal.

    How many characters -- and how many people, for that matter -- regret on their deathbeds the things they didn't do, the things they didn't say? Doctor Manhattan doesn't have that problem. For whatever reason, the conversations he had with Angela between her removing the device and him being involuntarily teleported were exactly the conversations he wanted to have, the most important way he could use that time in his own estimation.

    The very fact that he spoke to Will Reeves, to kick this whole thing into motion, suggests that there are moves yet to play. He knew he would be kidnapped, and he knew that he would be destroyed. But there were still things he could do to achieve the optimal outcome. So while this ends with tragedy for Angela, I don't think it ends with superhuman white supremacists ruling over Planet Earth.
     
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  14. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Studio Mogul

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    Wonder if Laurie gets to see Jon in the season finale next week.
     
  15. Walter Kittel

    Walter Kittel Lead Actor

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    Still kind of attempting to wrap my mind around the notion that an entity could experience all of time simultaneously. Might as well attempt to understand infinity. :) Adam mentions cause and effect and it certainly does seem like a violation of one of the fundamental principles of the universe - causality. Chicken and egg - simultaneously.

    I guess the tachyon cannon was supplied courtesy of Senator Keene. Not the sort of thing a bunch of raggedy-ass hillbillies in ski masks would just have lying around. :)

    The temporal aspects of Sunday's episode allowed the editing to really shine. Excellent transitions that kept the narrative flowing smoothly. A very strong element in this episode.

    One more to go. What became of Looking Glass? Seems like he will make an appearance in the finale.

    - Walter.
     
  16. Josh Dial

    Josh Dial Producer

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    I don't agree with this analysis, nor the statement that this episode demonstrated that Dr. Manhattan is capable of error.

    Like Lindelof's episode of LOST, The Constant (still one of the best episodes of television ever), this episode is a love story told out of order. Because of a) causality, and, b) Dr. Manhattan's perception of time, he couldn't have saved himself because it would have meant Angela never would have tried to save him, which means he never would have fallen in love with her, which means he never would have introduced himself to her, which, in the end, means he never would have been in a position (decades later) to be saved. All events are entangled.

    Ultimately Dr. Manhattan made a choice, not an error.
     
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  17. Hollywoodaholic

    Hollywoodaholic Edge of Glory?

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    This last episode was co-written by Jeff Jensen... who formally was a reviewer for Entertainment Weekly who used to dissect every episode of LOST to the nth degree. Most of his theories at the time were far more complex than even the show's writers and creators intended. But his reviews were always fun reading, and I am especially jazzed that his work did not go unnoticed by Lindelof, who has brought him into the fold.

    Talk about a critic/writer-wannabe who's dream came true. I just find this a fascinating and okay, inspiring, development for any fan out there who loves a show enough to write about it with passion and then go on to write another series with that same creator. Well done!
     
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  18. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    They also collaborated on the Tomorrowland script.
     
  19. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    You're conflating two separate points that I was making: 1) That Doctor Manhattan is not omnipotent, and capable of error; and 2) That the decisions he made in last Sunday's episode are a result of his nonlinear conception of time.

    I would argue that his intervention in the Vietnam War on behalf of Nixon is an example of an error: something he wryly acknowledged as having done despite knowing that he'd regret it.

    This is what I was getting at when I stated that "how he evaluates importance is different than how anybody else evaluates importance."

    I'm one of the few people who loves that movie.
     
  20. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    I’m a fan as well. I think the movie was really harmed at the box office and prevented from finding its audience by the marketing campaign led by Brad Bird where they absolutely refused to tell the audience anything about the movie. You can’t make a $200 tentpole and then deflect simple questions like “what’s the premise?” with “Its a secret!” and expect to get an Avengers-sized audience, and yet, that’s exactly what happened. I think they had phenomenal ideas about the world of the movie but structured their story in such a way that, for the audience, all of the best parts have already happened before the film has begun. I enjoy the movie in spite of its flaws but I wish it had been better structured, and I wish the studio hadn’t given in so completely to the filmmaker desire not to reveal anything in advance. As a result of that film’s box office underperformance, Disney extrapolated that it failed because it was an original sci-fi story and overreacted by then canceling all Disney-branded sci-fi projects in development.
     
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