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Watchmen (HBO) Season One

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by Josh Dial, Oct 20, 2019.

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  1. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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    Wow. Can we get a Hooded Justice show next?

    Loved everything about this episode, especially the music, which was wonderful.
     
  2. Timothy E

    Timothy E Screenwriter
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    So is Will Reeves a descendant of Bass Reeves? In the same way that the Green Hornet is descended from the Lone Ranger? I see it implied from “Trust in the Law.”
     
  3. Lord Dalek

    Lord Dalek Producer

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    No I think he just took the name after his parents were killed.
     
  4. Josh Dial

    Josh Dial Producer

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    Not to diminish what you wrote in any way, but I don't think it was meant to be trippy, experimental, or unusual. I think the episode was meant to be fairly straight forward, if not a bit stylish. The show knows that its audience understands the events to be Will's memories--it isn't dancing around that or relying on visual devices but instead has characters literally provide that information.

    However, what was delivered was a highly competent balancing between an honest portrayal of racial injustice/reality, driving the narrative forward, echoing (and building on) themes explored in the original Watchmen graphic novel, demonstrating a complete and utter understanding of the original material and historical events, and re-contextualizing things we've already seen this season (e.g. the American Hero Story scene showing the "same" events at the store).

    This episode was searing and sophisticated.
     
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  5. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    Crawford's grandfather was almost certainly one of the perpetrators in the Greenwood Massacre back in 1921.

    As for Crawford himself, he was clearly a participant in Senator Keene's conspiracy. We still don't know the motives or objectives of that conspiracy, so we don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing or something in between. Crawford's defense of himself to Will Reeves was pretty ugly: "I’m trying to fucking help you people." He is clearly from a lineage of white supremacist terrorism. And his decision to hold onto his family's Klansman robe demonstrates a certain unwillingness to repudiate that lineage. But while his framing of the situation is racist, I think there's a good chance that his relationship with Angela was sincere and his intentions were sincere.

    So then the question becomes: Did Will Reeves force Crawford to hang himself because he knows something about Crawford and/or the conspiracy that we don't? Or did Will Reeves force Crawford to hang himself because he remembers what happened in 1921, found the hidden Klan robe, and made an assumption based on a lifetime of bad experiences with men like Judd Crawford? One gets the sense that Reeves is just as angry as he was the day the hood and noose came into his possession.

    Oh, absolutely. That wasn't a criticism of the episode itself, which was excellent, but rather criticism of (or at least mild bewilderment about) the early buzz from the people who'd seen the screener.
     
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  6. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    That's the most impressive part of the show to me. Not that Lindelof & company and HBO didn't understand the material but I figured that they wouldn't have so fully jumped into the more potentially controversial aspects of the comics. Alan Moore might punch me in the face for saying it but I see this as a legitimate continuation of what Moore and Gibbons did.
     
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  7. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    Alan Moore might punch anyone in the face for any reason :)

    This show, for me, is one of the rare examples of a work that improves upon and transcends the limitations of its source material.
     
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  8. Lord Dalek

    Lord Dalek Producer

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    As opposed to the previous adaptation which only paid lip service in a vulgar and soulless manner typical of the "visionary" that made it.
     
  9. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    I actually liked quite a bit about the film and thought the film’s version of Veidt’s plan was better, particularly for a self-contained single work.
     
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  10. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    I don't think the squid would have worked in a movie made for a mainstream audience so I agree with them changing it for the movie. That being said, I'm very glad to see this series following the comic books because it's a different audience and the squid having been in the comic isn't as out of left field as it might have felt in the movie.
     
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  11. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    Here’s my thing(s) with the squid in the book:

    -It asks us to take one sci-fi leap too many in what’s otherwise portrayed as a realistic story. Dr. Manhattan is the belief suspending thing I give the story. That a man, even the world’s smartest, has figured out teleportation in 1985 breaks the world for me.

    -It rips off an Outer Limits ending; rather than the story having its own end, it almost turns into the written equivalent of a cover song.

    -I’m not convinced that plan would work long term. I’m not convinced that humans are good enough at keeping their mouths shut to sustain a conspiracy of that magnitude (and this is one of the things I love about the show; it takes that weakness and turns it into a strength by extrapolating that Veidt didn’t get away with it).

    -But mostly, I think there’s an elegance to the film’s ending. Dr. Manhattan is America’s greatest protector and the rest of the world’s greatest threat. The entirety of history is altered by what Manhattan can do (Vietnam for example). If he turns on America, that gives humanity a common enemy that they know and can comprehend, and also gives a concrete demonstration of why “we can’t depend on supermen to save us, we must save ourselves instead.” Manhattan’s story arc has him feeling done with this world anyway; it gives him more plausible cover to leave and never return, which fits better with the story.

    I don’t think a fake squid attack brings about a lasting peace but I think Dr. Manhattan turning on the world might.
     
  12. Message #72 of 131 Nov 26, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
    Walter Kittel

    Walter Kittel Lead Actor

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    The show continues to excel. I always treasure those shows that manage to maintain a high level throughout their runs. Admittedly six episodes isn't that high of a bar, when compared to series that did this year in and year out (cough Breaking Bad) ; but nevertheless I continued to be impressed with the execution of the series, and Sunday's episode was no exception.

    While the episode wasn't 'trippy' it definitely had a somewhat surreal feeling with the transitions and the inclusion (mostly in the background) of events from Tulsa.

    I find myself praising the show's soundtrack nearly every week, and this was the case yet again. Got a nice 'Fallout 4' reference with The Ink Spots' rendition of I don't want to set the world on fire. Some of the other material in the episode would have been quite at home on Diamond City Radio, notably Eartha Kitt's Smoke gets in your eyes and The Inks Spots' We Three (Echo, My Shadow, and Me).

    There are some interesting theories about a character in the episode floating around on the internet. Can't really say more.

    - Walter.
     
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  13. Hanson

    Hanson Producer

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    It took me a couple of episodes to find my bearings, but Watchmen has been steadily getting better and better. Episode 6 was superb. I liked the inversion of Hooded Justice covering his eyes with white makeup while his granddaughter covers her eyes with black makeup.
     
  14. Jeff Cooper

    Jeff Cooper Cinematographer

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    It's been a while since I read the graphic novel, but weren't there not that many humans left alive that would have to keep their mouths shut? Veidt murdered everyone who worked on the project, and the only ones who knew about it were the ones present in his Antarctic base when they confronted him. Of those few, only Rorschach said he wouldn't keep the secret, and he was murdered for that.

    I mean it's directly implied at the end that word would get out through Rorschach's journal, but I'm only counting what's present on the page.
     
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  15. MattBradley

    MattBradley Second Unit

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    I've really been enjoying this show. Living here in Tulsa, it's amazing how many people were not aware of the riots. I've known my whole life but people around me thought it was made up for the show. Just last weekend I was in an Uber driving through the area represented on the show while discussing the show with the driver. She had no idea that where we were at that moment was the spot where it had all happened. Can't wait to see what happens to Veidt!
     
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  16. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    I just saw The Irishman last week and they bring up the saying that the only way three people can keep a secret is if two of them are dead.

    It's been a while since I read the comic too but does Ozymandias ever specify his plan to the point of thinking it could be a long term peace? I thought his plan was basically get the world off the brink of nuclear war. I think his plan (as evil as it was) would have accomplished that.
     
  17. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

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    When the instrumental version of "Life on Mars" started playing, I was like "Oh shit!"

    I did not see that twist coming at all.
     
  18. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

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    Considering Doctor Manhattan's reported location, it was inevitable that they'd use Life On Mars. It's a great song but I was wondering if it would work since it's been used alot over the years. However, (I'm assuming) Reznor and Ross' cover was lovely and it fit perfectly.
     
  19. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
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    I love how good this show is at leaving breadcrumbs and not making them obvious. From the beginning, it seemed as though Sister Night’s marriage had a secret and it seemed an interesting storytelling choice that her children were adopted. But it also could have meant anything. During the episode, the wheels started turning in my head - I had started to suspect a while back that Dr. Manhattan wasn’t Veidt’s warden, which made me wonder just where he was. I think I got there maybe five minutes before the show revealed it and that was thrilling.
     
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  20. John Sparks

    John Sparks Producer

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    Another series that just didn't do it for me, as in, "WTF is going on?"
     

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