VSX-47TX..... Should I?

Navid

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Aug 21, 2002
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I am about to buy the VSX-47TX by Pioneer Elite. Definitely a great receiver, but I am wondering....
Are there any really new receivers coming out soon that are in the same class as the VSX-47TX that might be a better value?
I know about Denon's 3803, but it is not nearly in the same class as the two best Pioneer Elites. Will there be a Denon AVR-4803? I already have a Denon AVR-3802. The same thing happened when I bought my Denon. I bought it and then found how much of a better deal it is to get the 43TX or 45TX for only a bit more. It was too late then. I don't want that to happen again.
I will be using all Paradigm Reference speakers:
fronts: Studio 40 v.2
center: Studio CC v.2
rears: Studio ADP v.2
sub: Servo-15
I just feel that my Denon is not showing the full potential of the Paradigm Reference. I really like the Denon for it's price. No doubt about that. It just is not producing the vicious and dynamic sound that a better amplifier would produce.
 

Angelo.M

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I'd wait for the H/K 525 before making any final decisions.

-AM
 

Navid

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Hmm... The 525 doesn't seem to be anything special.

It is the competition between Pioneer Elite VSX-45TX or a Denon 3803.

Not In Pioneer Elite class.

I want something around 2000+ dollars discounted with a list that is even higher. VSX-47TX is listed at 3000 dollars but dealer will do around 2000... VSX-49TX is up to 2600 online and 4200 list, but I do not buy these kinds of equipment from unauthorized dealers.. Number one because I have to use credit card and pay interest, and number two because of warranty issues.

I get no interest financing from authorized dealers that will sell for an acceptable price.
 

Joe Szott

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Navid,

Unless you want the extra power of the VSX-47tx, why not get the VSX-45tx for $1000 less? It seems to be the maximum 'bang-for-buck' receiver that Pioneer has right now. Most all of the nice 47-49tx features with just a little less power.

Comparing the 47tx to the 3803 or HK 525 isn't really fair, in that price range the 4803 and (8000?) are closer to that $2000 price range. The 45tx is the comparable unit in this class.

BTW - The Elites just came out and the Denons and HKs are about to roll. I suspect they will all be very similar performance and features, I doubt the 45tx would be 'buried' by the new competition. If I hadn't just bought a used 520 for a song, I would have gotten the VSX-45tx. I think it is the best price/performance receiver available today.
 

Dalton

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Hmm... The 525 doesn't seem to be anything special
Why would you say this? The 525 will be very comparable to the 45tx or 3803. The 525 adds a 7 ch. amp and it appears L7 can be applied to 5.1/7.1 sources. It has just about everything but DTS 96/24. There is very little material out there in DTS 96/24 and i don't see that changing anytime soon. I talked to Onecall today and they told me that they expect the 525 to be shipping as early as 1 week. I agree the 3803 and 45tx should seriously be considered in this price range, but i wouldn't leave out the 525.
 

Ricky***C

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Aug 25, 2002
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I would be a bit concerned with reported shutdown problems the Pioneer 45 is having. I witnessed it in person last week at a local shop, the 45 was driving Paradigm studio 60's
 

MikeRP

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Aug 8, 2002
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Navid:

I'd guess the 47 is a great receiver. But, the 45, which I have is great. No shutdown problems. On the other hand, we had some discussions about the shutdown issue on this and another forum and realize that it is a probably a Pioneer design feature.

I think there's three theories at work.

1. Break in - I don't think any user has had a shutdown after break in. Please speak up if you have!

2. Clipping - the Pioneer knows when its going to hurt the speaker and shuts down.

3. One user, Brae, has witnessed the 43,45,47, and 49 shutdown with Studio 100's.

4. The 45 has absolutely wonderful processing. I'm using a two channel amp for the mains. This is my suggestion.

5. Right now on a movie @ -20 db that's about as loud as I want to listen to HT. Music - I go up to -15 db. I never has it > -5.

6. Three! If you buy speakers that need 200 WPC don't expect these receivers to drive them to brick shattering levels.

Good Luck!

Mike
 

Navid

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Aug 21, 2002
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Man I can't imagine the 49TX or 47TX shutting down with Studio 100's.

This clearly seems to be a safety mechanism. I have noticed that just about all Paradigm Reference speakers need a damn serious amplifier to be unleashed, but the 100's might be in a whole different class...

That is alot of the reason why I actually DID buy the 47TX today... ! I do not have 100's though.. I wouldn't be buying 100's without the best amplification I could afford.

It is ok .. I have 30 days no questions asked to return it... If something new comes out by then or I find out about something new.. I will just return it.

But to even talk like that seems inappropriate... Pioneer Elite receivers are incredible..
 

Chris Carswell

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Good, I'm happy to hear you got the 47tx. I was about to chime in and recommend it. I too was in your boat. I got the 35tx but wish I waited a bit longer for the 41tx or 43tx. I don't think you will have any problems with it shutting down. You can always add an amp later to power your mains and take some of the load off your receiver but I doubt you will need to do that. Let us know how much you love your new toy
. My next upgrade will be the 47tx as well.....
 

MikeRP

Supporting Actor
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Messages
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Navid, Chris:
I seriously checked out the HK 520 before taking it back and happening on this one.
I sweated taking that HK back I liked it so much but no DD_ex. If it would have had this feature I wouldn't have found this Pioneer.
This Pioneer is incredibile. I know you will love your new 47TX.. I'm jealous. Well maybe next time....
Soundstage is great....Well on and on. Those Studio's are demanding. Brae says Paradigm recommends a good 200 WPC amp. So, when he was stressing the 45 and 47 and 49 out at +3 db on the volume, number one he probably has some hearing damage (hehe Brae - got you
) and number 2 he was obviously exceeding the amp specs.
So I'm not in the least concerned cause mine is as loud as I want it now.
Navid; let us knoW how you like it!
Mike
 

Brae

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Jul 25, 2002
Messages
509
Hi Brae
Based on your information, it is my opinion that this receiver simply does
not have sufficient power reserves to support the volume level and
frequencies that were being played when it shut down.
In general, we recommend amplifiers that exceed the suitable amplifier
power-range rating of the speaker since their greater power reserves provide
better sound. However, EXERCISE CAUTION! Use the speakers within their
power-range rating to prevent damage (keep listening levels below the point
of excessive woofer cone excursion).
It is very unlikely that the store's floor model Studio/100v.2's would be
damaged enough to cause a problem of this nature and still perform properly
at lower volume levels or with higher-powered equipment.
The general consensus by reviewers and consumers is that amplifiers rated at
210 watts/ch or more are preferable for use with the Studio/100v.2 but you
may be able to select a lower-powered amp if you are able to achieve the
desired output levels without exceeding the recommended maximum control
settings (where it is unlikely that the amplifier will be driven hard enough
to cause clipping distortion or shut down) provided by the manufacturer.
Thanks for choosing Paradigm speakers.
Sincerely,
Gary Takeda
Paradigm Technical Support
The 45TX's 100WPC should be sufficient for the 40's, ADP's, and CC, and from what I've been told and found used power amps are plentiful and inexpensive (for those 100's I just know you're gonna get someday!
 

Scott Merryfield

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Enjoy the receiver, Navid. While I am not using Paradigm speakers, I am driving seven B&W 600 Series speakers with my 47TX, and have never experienced a receiver shutdown. I have been very pleased with the performance and sound quality of this piece.
 

Navid

Agent
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
31
I just want to make sure that nothing spectacular or of better value comes out in the near future. I didn't want to commit to a big purchase and then find out that Pioneer has upgraded the 47TX to the 47TXi or something, which they don't seem to be intending.. Also I am very interested in finding out about what Denon is doing. Hopefully they don't release an AVR-4803 that is just as good or better because it is newer. I don't know how much THX Ultra2 certification is worth, but if Denon was able to meet those requirements too (for what it's worth), I would definitely prefer a Denon.

Also, just to comment, I don't see the point in an upgrade from a pair of Studio 40's to a pair of 80's or even 100's.

The 40's are mostly the the 100's without the low end. The 100's are more than double the cost of the 40's.

All you have to do is get a couple of Servo 15's (if you want to stay loyal to Paradigm)... I'd personally much rather have the low end coming from a second Servo than just getting large 100s that sound good only with a badass amplifier, but not as good as Servo.

Overall I am very excited about my VSX-47TX.. The problem is that I don't hear much about the 47.. Everyone goes with 49. I do not order online because I don't want to pay interest. My dealer will go really low on most stuff, but the 49 is way out of range.. I just don't think Pioneer has a good pricing scheme between these two receivers..
 

Brae

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Jul 25, 2002
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509
$1500 for a pair of 100's in Rosenut neveer is not that bad of a price when compared to the cost of a couple of Servo-15s. Of course, I am thinking in terms of shopping in Canada where Paradigms are relatively inexpensive.

So, since you are fixed on the 47TX and completely ignored MikeRP's suggestion (and mine) for the 45TX what is on the 47TX that you would be getting besides the extra 30W/channel?
 

Joe Szott

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Brae,
I asked him that around the 5th post too, Navid doesn't want the 45tx for whatever reason. I suspect that because he constantly mentions the 47 and 49 models that he wants bragging rights as far as power goes.
It's all good
 

Brae

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Messages
509
Doh! It just made me wonder whay was being missed on a receiver that lists for more than double that of the 45TX. I mean, for that extra $1600 one could go to Canada and buy the 100's in Rosenut veneer and resell them locally for a profit if they didn't want them.
These just look yummy
:
 

MikeRP

Supporting Actor
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Aug 8, 2002
Messages
514
Brae:
Frick those are beautiful! I don't see no claw marks!

I'm jealous.........
Mikey
 

Wolfgang.K

Agent
Joined
Sep 26, 2002
Messages
28
One reason one might go for the 47TX over the 45TX is sound quality? Has anybody done a sound comparison?

I'm seriously considering the 45TX or the 47TX but have a gripe when it comes to listening to music. I compared the 45TX to the Integra 7.2 on 3 separate occasions at 2 different dealers and have to say that the integra beat the pioneer in this area. Even the salesperson's felt that the Integra was a superior receiver. IMO the instruments were more defined and detailed to that of the pioneer. It also seemed to have more authority at the same power Level.
I believe that if a receiver can handle music with clarity it should perform well in theater as well. What are your thoughts on this?

On another note: Has anyone considered purchasing their receiver on either E-bay/u-bid? My understanding is that one can save a considerable amount of money going this route.

What is about the ELITE series that I like?
The Auto-MCCAC, the looks,It's feature set.

Wolfgang
 

Dalton

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Dalton
Wolfgang,
You have made a good point. I almost went for the 47tx but my dealer actually told me that getting a separate amp for the front 2 or 3 speakers with a 45tx was the better deal. He could have sold me a 47tx cause i was ready to buy one but instead i bought a 45tx and picked up a nice Acurus 100x3 amp right here on the forum and saved a good chunk of $$. I am happy i ended up going that route. The 45tx/Acurus combo performs beyond my expectations. If adding a separate amp is not possible/desireable, then i probably would have gone the 47tx route.

Dalton
 

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