Velodyne Subs ? (1 Viewer)

[Greg_R]

Dave,
The DIY option will easily outperform any commercial offering in that price range. Go over to the DIY section of this forum and check out some of the designs. Something like a Tumult or Stryke HE15 with two passive radiators would be slightly larger than a HGS15 but would have more extension and significantly more output (with equal or better musicality).

 

[Dustin B]

Well it will take multiples of HGS18 subs to equal the Tumult. But it won't be cheap. Kilowatt or more amp power needed ($400 or more), ~$400 for the driver, $250-$300 for the PRs and then you have to build the enclosure.

For this price range and wanting a smaller enclosure the AV12 from stryke with a pair of 15" PRs , 350W and a 3ft^3 enclosure looks interesting. Should easily outgun an HGS15 anyways.

 

[Michael Roderiques]

For me, Quality is more important.
I will always choose quality over quantity.

Others may not care about quality, and thats OK too.

I guess it gets back to the Ford or Chevy debate.

I think that at some point a bird(fowl)very closely related to the bird (fowl)we now call a chicken had to exist. Then as Darwin surmised, some form of cross breeding and mutation took place. That being the case, then it only stands to prove the egg did come first.

 

[Will Gatlin Jr]

Dave...

My room (11 1/2 by 27) is a little larger than yours. I had an FSR-15 (although is was great), but once I moved up to the HGS-18, I finally heard what serious sub-woofing was all about. From one of the HT mags: "You might not be ready for all the FSR-18 has to offer."

 

[Jack Gilvey]

For me, Quality is more important.
I will always choose quality over quantity.

Absolutely, that's why the previous DIY suggestions are so good (the Tumult is very low in distortion at very high excursions by design...no need for servos and other band-aids). Very high quality, low-distortion bass at levels that will make the commercial boxes weep. Fwiw, the DIY discussions/recommendations I see on this site (at least from Dustin and others) always assume "quality" as well as quantity...leave the SPL drag races to the car audio forums.

 

[Dustin B]

Not having size, weight or profit margin considerations sure can help

 

[Michael Roderiques]

Jack,

For me Quality is more important.
I will always choose quality over quantity.

To quality I have to say that I do not agree with most of your statement above. We each have an opinion and they are different, and I leave it at that. To take it any farther would require more time and effort than I care to commit.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Michael,

I don't quite get the Ford vs. Chevy debate (never have, never will) and you seriously lost me on Darwin analogy. Would I be correct in assuming that your stance is that a properly designed sub (DIY or otherwise) cannot/will not outgun and outclass a Velodyne sub and at a cheaper price point?

How about an Adire Audio Dharman? It can outgun an HGS-15. And at $600 each you could get three of them instead of a single Velo.

Maybe ported subs aren't your thing. OK, how about a sealed Tumult based sub or two? Get two Tumults, place them each into a double walled 18" cube with the finish of your choice. Buy a QSC PLX3400 amp and build an LT circuit to get sub 20Hz extension and a Qtc around .6 or lower. What you end up with is two subs that cost you between $2000-$2500 (depending on finish) and will outperform/outclass 4 HGS18's in every possible way.

Brian

 

[Michael Roderiques]

Brian

Never assume AND
Never worry about Darwin and you will be fine.
You know he was insane.

When you say Outperform / Outclass a velodyne HGS-18, Or
a sub-woofer that can outgun an HGS-15,

I don't understand that terminology as you have used it.
Could you explain this to me, so I can understand your point of reference.

 

[Dustin B]

I believe Brian means equal or better sound quality with the ability to maintain that quality to higher output levels.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Michael,

What Dustin said. Thanks Dustin! I can get a bit wordy sometimes! I guess I could have used the term "musical", but I hate the way that gets thrown around all the time!

Brian

 

[Michael Roderiques]

Dustin and Brian

I guess I just don't understand what you are trying to say.

 

[Dustin B]

Well if you ever get to hear one someone did a decent job constructing then you'll understand. Other than that, not much more we can say.

 

[Michael Roderiques]

Brian and Dustin

It seems to me that you are making statements that you can not provide an explanation for.

Both of you state that you have a sub-woofer that outguns, outperforms and outclasses or that it is more musical than another sub-woofer.

Yet when asked to define or explain your statements and terminology, so that I may understand your point, you cannot.

What I do understand is, you have a personal opinion about something. It is just that, a personal opinion. It does not seem to be backed by any facts or data.

I don’t think you have told any one anything of value. You certainly have not been able to explain your position to me in a way that I could understand it. I did not gain anything of value from your statements. I actually now think that your statements have little value and no credibility to them.

An opinion is fine, if that’s what you are expressing. And having it stated as an opinion is great. When you make an opinion as a statement of fact and have nothing to prove your position, you are doing everyone a disservice.

 

[Dustin B]

Sound quality sure, that's an opinion. Although I would be interested in seeing if a lot of those opinions could hold up to blind testing. From what you have said I agree we will never come to a point that is satisfactory for you with description of sound quality. I know people in the DIY area have opinions on sound quality that rub some people the wrong way though. Guess we'll just have to leave it at that.

But output, we have some very nice objective facts.

Nousaine test data. 7500ft^3 room, 10% THD limit, measured from 2m, first number is the average of the 25, 32, 40, 50, 62 hz numbers, the ones after are levels at particular frequencies.

Stryke Power15 - 115.4dB / 16hz~99dB__20hz~102dB__25hz~106dB
VELODYNE HGS15 - 107.7dB / 16hz~89.1dB
Adire Dharman - 107.9dB / 20hz~96dB__25hz~102dB

We know all the details about the designs in the Styke Power15 and the Adire Dharman (including all the drivers parameters). From that I can say with confidence that an AV12 with 350W and a pair of 15" PRs in a 3ft^3 enclosure tuned in the 18-22hz range would be somewhere between the Dharman and Power15 in output. The Tumult will be a noticeable step above the Power15 in output ability (when done in a similar PR enclosure).

 

[Bill Law]

How does the HGS18 Velodyne compare to a REL Stadium III?
Please no SVS or DIY preaching.

 

[Dustin B]

The Rel has better connectivity (crossover, seperate LFE and L/R intputs, etc). Most will tell you the Rel sounds better. The Rel won't have much for last octave extension. The Velodyne will go a lot louder a lot lower.

 

[Brian Bunge]

Michael,

OK, I'll drop the SQ statements as each person has their own ideas of what sounds good to them. But from the data that Dustin has posted it's easy to see that a $600 Adire Audio Dharman will have roughly the same performance from an extension and SPL standpoint. That's basically the same performance at roughly 1/3 the price using a smaller driver and a less powerful amplifier. No servo, no megawatt amp, just good engineering.

Bill,

I'd go with the Velodyne between the two unless the furniture grade enclosure appeals to you. I prefer the REL from an aesthetic standpoint. Gloss black enclosures just don't do it for me.

Brian

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>Michael,

OK, I'll drop the SQ statements as each person has their own ideas of what sounds good to them. But from the data that Dustin has posted it's easy to see that a $600 Adire Audio Dharman will have roughly the same performance from an extension and SPL standpoint.

 

[Michael Roderiques]

Bill I would suggest you look at both. The REL has a an additional input that bypasses the crossover, works basically the same as the Velodyne crossover switch.

The REl is in my opinion a nicer looking unit, then I tend to like the more natural wood look. The Velodyne is a classic finish piece, never have had any one say that it looks bad. Then No one ever said a Steinway was ugly either.

I think you will find the Velodyne will play across a wider frequency range, with slightly higher output levels in the lowest octave.

I would recommend a visit to a store near you to audition the units.