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Question about my Subs (1 Viewer)

Jbitzer

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I have an old Velodyne DPS-12 sub and a Polk 10 inch I think is a PSW-10, I know using them both doesn't make sense, but I had the extra and didn't want to put it in storage.

I've now updated my system to a new Klipsch RP-8060FA with 502s and 600s for the rear. My receiver is a Denon avrx3700h.

I'm trying to get the system properly tuned and noticed that the polk picks up tones the Velodyne does not. I'm planning on removing the polk anyway, but the fact the Velodyne really only pick ups deep rumbly bass and the polk was playing a low music tone I'd expect from my fronts, I am a little worried something might be wrong with one or the other of the subs.

Is my best thing to just use audyssey setup for tuning the sub? and how do I know if there is in fact something wrong with one of the subs?
 
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JohnRice

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Welcome to HTF John.

Would you tell us how the subwoofers are connected, and what the crossover configuration is in the speaker setup of the receiver? Also, there are other settings that affect the subs, like if they're set to "LFE" or "LFE+MAIN" and which speakers are set to "Large" or "Small".
 

Jbitzer

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Welcome to HTF John.

Would you tell us how the subwoofers are connected, and what the crossover configuration is in the speaker setup of the receiver? Also, there are other settings that affect the subs, like if they're set to "LFE" or "LFE+MAIN" and which speakers are set to "Large" or "Small".
Thanks

they are both hooked in the LFE and on direct/ LFE setting.

The speakers are set to large. I’ve set the speaker distances to the approx distance from seating area.
I’ve swapped the inputs and cable to ensure it’s not the cable or input sending a different signal to each but the Polk plays it seems like a higher tone than the velodyne. I tried setting the crossovers higher to see if at a lower hz setting the Polk will also cut out the higher tones but it just seems to play higher tones at every setting.
In planning to run the audessy when I ge the side surrounds put up but this sub thing is just weird.

so what’s weird is that lfe is sending the same tone down the same cable but the velodyne seems like the internal crossover setting is broken.

oh another thing: it’s not volume because the low bass is making my eardrums feel like it’s going to pop.
 

JohnRice

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First, the speakers, all of them, should be set to "Small". I know, your speakers are full range floorstanding models. They should still be set to "Small'. Then you can adjust the high pass to them in the receiver. 80Hz is usually a good starting point.

You need to make sure any crossovers in the subwoofers are bypassed or turned off. The receiver handles the frequency crossover.

Something that makes powered subwoofers complicated is you have two volume controls. One in the receiver trim setting and another on the subwoofer itself. How to set those correctly can seem counterintuitive. Generally you want to start with the volume knob on the sub set in the middle.

If the bass is that strong, then there is a volume problem. It's probably too high, and probably unbalanced between the two subwoofers. Setting up two subs is four times as complicated as setting up one, but it can be worth it. We'll need to be sure they are balanced and then at the right level. The auto correction can handle this decently, if you want to go that route.
 

Jbitzer

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First, the speakers, all of them, should be set to "Small". I know, your speakers are full range floorstanding models. They should still be set to "Small'. Then you can adjust the high pass to them in the receiver. 80Hz is usually a good starting point.

You need to make sure any crossovers in the subwoofers are bypassed or turned off. The receiver handles the frequency crossover.

Something that makes powered subwoofers complicated is you have two volume controls. One in the receiver trim setting and another on the subwoofer itself. How to set those correctly can seem counterintuitive. Generally you want to start with the volume knob on the sub set in the middle.

If the bass is that strong, then there is a volume problem. It's probably too high, and probably unbalanced between the two subwoofers. Setting up two subs is four times as complicated as setting up one, but it can be worth it. We'll need to be sure they are balanced and then at the right level. The auto correction can handle this decently, if you want to go that route.
That’s why what I think is wrong is the crossover on the sub is jacked up. It’s only getting the lowest of the notes even when the crossover is set to direct/off.
 

JohnRice

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Yes, the crossover in the subs needs to be set to LFE/Bypass/Direct and the speakers need to be set to “Small” in the receiver’s speaker setup menu.
 

Jbitzer

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Yes, the crossover in the subs needs to be set to LFE/Bypass/Direct and the speakers need to be set to “Small” in the receiver’s speaker setup menu.
This still doesn’t explain the difference even in range on the 2 subs. I can upload a sound sample when I get a sec later.
 

JohnRice

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I’m still trying to figure out what that is. Trying to get there.
 

Jbitzer

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Related question about small speaker setting.... Won't that affect stereo playback where the sub isn't used for music?
 

John Dirk

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Related question about small speaker setting.... Won't that affect stereo playback where the sub isn't used for music?
Especially with these speakers, you should be using your sub for music. I know the specs say they will go down to 32Hz but they won't do that at nearly the SPL your subs are capable of.

Also, trying to gain match or tune multiple subs without at least a basic SPL meter is probably not going to be successful. I would highly recommend investing in something like this at a minimum.

Amazon product
 

Jbitzer

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Well, I'm looking to not use both in the end. I just threw the polk one on because I really didn't want to clear basement space for it. I'm just trying to figure out when the one doesn't play the same tones as the other when both are on the direct setting. I'm leaning towards the crossover in the Velodyne somehow being stuck set too high.
 

Jbitzer

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Ok so I got both subs set to the same setting and speakers set to small.
Here’s the difference I’m talking about. First is velodyne second is Polk. It’s like the same tone but so much lower and less clear. Is it just different cones?
 
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JohnRice

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Something is definitely wrong. Are you absolutely positive no other speaker is playing along with the Polk? No subwoofer should even be capable of playing that harmonic you hear with the Polk. It sounds like it's around 1K Hz or more. Even if a sub was fed that frequency, it shouldn't be able to reproduce it. Certainly not at that level.

To clarify, the same bass tone is present both times, but the Polk also has a much higher harmonic that it shouldn't even be able to reproduce, which is why I suspect it's coming from a speaker or speakers.
 

Jbitzer

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Something is definitely wrong. Are you absolutely positive no other speaker is playing along with the Polk? No subwoofer should even be capable of playing that harmonic you hear with the Polk. It sounds like it's around 1K Hz or more. Even if a sub was fed that frequency, it shouldn't be able to reproduce it. Certainly not at that level.
The receiver is only "supposed" to be sending to that channel. I can listen at each speaker and make sure it's not just messed up in sending signals. Let me get back to you.
 

JohnRice

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You can also swap the sub cables on the back of the receiver. See if the harmonic moves to the Klipsch. But of course, it's easy to see if that harmonic is coming from another speaker. But, that is weird. Unless the setup does that intentionally just so you can distinguish between the two subs. That's not a calibration tone. It's just intended to verify the subs are connected and working. You could also try the actual calibration tones, and I bet that harmonic is gone.
 

Jbitzer

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You can also swap the sub cables on the back of the receiver. See if the harmonic moves to the Klipsch. But of course, it's easy to see if that harmonic is coming from another speaker. But, that is weird. Unless the setup does that intentionally just so you can distinguish between the two subs. That's not a calibration tone. It's just intended to verify the subs are connected and working. You could also try the actual calibration tones, and I bet that harmonic is gone.
Definitely coming from the polk, I've plugged the polk's cable (2) into the Velodyne and I get the same note as with cable 1. That's why I thought maybe it isn't playing what it should. Sounds like you think the Polk is actually playing what it shouldn't?
 

JohnRice

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OK, that is strange.

I don't think it's actually causing a problem, but it is a little odd. I want to emphasize, I don't think it's actually an indication of something being wrong.

What I would try next is going into the speaker setup and running the manual channel level test, which will send a test tone sequentially to each speaker in the system for manual level matching. Don't make any adjustments to the levels, just listen to see if that harmonic is absent.
 

JohnRice

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Something I want to add after some thought. This indicates the driver in the Polk is not actually a sub driver, but just a regular woofer. I'm not terribly surprised by that. A true sub driver should be physically incapable of reproducing that frequency. Not only does this indicate the driver in the Polk isn't a sub driver, but is more of a Mid/Woofer design, which means it's probably a terrible performer as a subwoofer.
 

Jbitzer

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Something I want to add after some thought. This indicates the driver in the Polk is not actually a sub driver, but just a regular woofer. I'm not terribly surprised by that. A true sub driver should be physically incapable of reproducing that frequency. Not only does this indicate the driver in the Polk isn't a sub driver, but is more of a Mid/Woofer design, which means it's probably a terrible performer as a subwoofer.
Sounds like what I'm hearing here is to tell my wife something's wrong with it and buy an SVS.... :) The sub is easily over 20 years old
 

Jbitzer

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And it's actually a PSW350, I've been checking the wrong model this whole time. Sorry.
 

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