Rio Bravo versus El Dorado (2 Viewers)

[Robert Crawford]

You can't be serious. James Caan has a entertaining presence in just about every scene he's in, while Ricky Nelson is no more than window dressing in Rio Bravo. And as for all here who are offended at James Caan's Chinese scene, I say get a grip. He was poking fun a one culture's type cast...many cultures have been poked fun at thru the years. The Irish drinking, the English stuffiness, the Swedish buxom blondes, the Russians non-feeling toward human rights. We have poked fun at all these stereo types over the years.

El Dorado outshines Rio Bravo from beginning to end. Not to say I don't enjoy Rio Bravo, but the 1966 film is such a more pleasant ride than its 1959 counterpart.

Dance off Bro, just you and me.


Seriously, I've just posted a poll in this thread. Every opinion/vote is equal, but let's see what the membership thinks for discussion purposes.

 

[Robin9]

Agree with about everything you've said, except, I wouldn't say Caan is marginally better than Nelson, but rather, a lot better. Whenever he appears in Rio Bravo, I can't lose the thought that Ricky Nelson's teen idol status, with it's ability to pull in young moviegoers, was the sole reason he was chosen to play this supposedly tough gunslinger. That had to have been one of Hollywood's greatest feats of miscasting.

I was still pre-pubescent when Rio Bravo first came out, and my friends and I went to see the film because Ricky Nelson was in it. (Elvis by now was in the army) I had never heard of John Wayne! I loved the film and didn't find anything wrong with Ricky Nelson's performance. At that time my favorite character was Stumpy but I became an immediate fan of John Wayne, Dean Martin and Angie Dickinson.


I still don't find anything wrong with Ricky Nelson. He is not playing a tough gunslinger. He is playing a youngster who is very fast with a gun and is no fool but who has little experience. This point is emphasised repeatedly in the film. Ricky Nelson brings these points out rather well.

 

[OliverK]

I don't necessarily agree that Caan in this particular movie (El Dorado) was a lot better than Nelson in Rio Bravo.

He is a much better actor obviously and while he has a role that is not too thankful it still shows. Imo Ricky Nelson looks as if he stumbled onto the set by accident and doesn't really know what to do in this strange western. At least that is how he looked to me during his thankfully limited time on screen.

 

[Persianimmortal]

The key difference between the two films, from my perspective, is Dean Martin. He really gives a superb, realistic performance that elicits sympathy for his character's plight. Robert Mitchum on the other hand, usually a fine actor, plays the drunk character as pure comedic slapstick, which reduces my sympathy and takes away a lot of the drama. I've mentioned this earlier, but it bears repeating that although I like both films El Dorado veers far too much into the realm of comedy and camp for my taste in a Wayne western. Same reason I really don't like McLintock!.

 

[Robert Crawford]

He is a much better actor obviously and while he has a role that is not too thankful it still shows. Imo Ricky Nelson looks as if he stumbled onto the set by accident and doesn't really know what to do in this strange western. At least that is how he looked to me during his thankfully limited time on screen.

You're welcome to your opinion.

 

[Mike Boone]

You can't be serious. James Caan has a entertaining presence in just about every scene he's in, while Ricky Nelson is no more than window dressing in Rio Bravo. And as for all here who are offended at James Caan's Chinese scene, I say get a grip. He was poking fun a one culture's type cast...many cultures have been poked fun at thru the years. The Irish drinking, the English stuffiness, the Swedish buxom blondes, the Russians non-feeling toward human rights. We have poked fun at all these stereo types over the years.

El Dorado outshines Rio Bravo from beginning to end. Not to say I don't enjoy Rio Bravo, but the 1966 film is such a more pleasant ride than its 1959 counterpart.

Jim, your description of James Caan vs Ricky Nelson, fits precisely with the way I feel about how the 2 gentlemen compare in their portrayals.


And, I too, have somewhat of a preference for El Dorado. But for me, that bout was not a fair, or even, a clear cut fight, because I first saw El Dorado on the big screen, while I've only experienced Rio Bravo on home video.

 

[Douglas R]

My vote has gone to EL DORADO. I saw the film when it was first released and thoroughly enjoyed it. I didn’t see RIO BRAVO until later TV showings but to me it always seemed, as others have said, too long and meandering. There are various specific elements in RIO BRAVO which bother me such as some crass dialogue between John Wayne and Angie Dickinson, the way everything suddenly stops for a song and the unconvincing shooting of dynamite sticks toward the end. Perhaps the biggest reason for preferring EL DORADO over RIO BRAVO is that Robert Mitchum is vastly better than Dean Martin, who frankly I’ve never much cared for as an actor. The dialogue is also much tighter and more convincing overall.

 

[Mike Boone]

My vote has gone to EL DORADO. I saw the film when it was first released and thoroughly enjoyed it. I didn’t see RIO BRAVO until later TV showings but to me it always seemed, as others have said, too long and meandering. There are various specific elements in RIO BRAVO which bother me such as some crass dialogue between John Wayne and Angie Dickinson, the way everything suddenly stops for a song and the unconvincing shooting of dynamite sticks toward the end. Perhaps the biggest reason for preferring EL DORADO over RIO BRAVO is that Robert Mitchum is vastly better than Dean Martin, who frankly I’ve never much cared for as an actor. The dialogue is also much tighter and more convincing overall.

Yeah, I tend to come out on the side of El Dorado, but still feel you're not giving Dean Martin's efforts in Rio Bravo, their proper due. I think old Dino gave a pretty good account of himself playing Dude.

 

[Carcosa]

I selected the both-the-same option. I'm not sure why one HAS to be better than the other. After going back and watching RIO BRAVO again, I have to say I love them both equally. Two of my favorite movies.


I think Ricky Nelson is perfectly fine in the role...never considered him to be miscast. Despite some grimmer aspects of the story, there is a certain,,,lightheartedness?....to the film that works perfectly. Is Mitchum "better" than Martin? I don't know...I don't think so. Martin was perfectly cast for RIO BRAVO.

 

[Walsh61]

When this thread started I felt that I preferred EL DORADO over RIO BRAVO, but I sat down and watched them again last weekend and I have to say I enjoyed both films alot. They each have their strengths and weaknesses, so I voted for BOTH films about the same.


I agree that Dean Martin gave a fine performance as Dude, but I also think Robert Mitchum is a better actor than he's often given credit for. Howard Hawks knew this too.

 

[bujaki]

I like Rio Bravo better than El Dorado. Let's call it a gut reaction. I've never seen either film in a home video incarnation. I've only seen them in beautiful 35mm prints, when such events were commonplace in repertory theaters in New York.

 

[jim_falconer]

Dance off Bro, just you and me lol

Ha, okay Robert...have we entered zoolander territory now.

 

[Carcosa]

I like Rio Bravo better than El Dorado. Let's call it a gut reaction. I've never seen either film in a home video incarnation. I've only seen them in beautiful 35mm prints, when such events were commonplace in repertory theaters in New York.

I wish I could say the same The must have looked fantastic on the big screen.

 

[AshJW]

I selected the both-the-same option. I'm not sure why one HAS to be better than the other. After going back and watching RIO BRAVO again, I have to say I love them both equally. Two of my favorite movies.


I think Ricky Nelson is perfectly fine in the role...never considered him to be miscast.

I too voted for both-the-same, because I like both the same.

But when I look at the matter objectively, I must say that Rio Bravo is generally the better film.


Re: Ricky Nelson

He plays what he was at the time, a very young man, not very experienced, but quick with the gun.

I too never considered him to be miscast.

 

[ScottRichard]

Rio Bravo is one of my favorite westerns! Dean Martin, Angie Dickinson and, of course, Walter Brennan make the film for me. No problems with Ricky Nelson either!

 

[Alan Tully]

Well, whichever film you prefer, they're both great westerns: two great performances by the Duke. El Dorado is still just ahead for me, I wish there was a wee bit more action in Rio Bravo. I still hope Warner re-visits Rio Bravo, as I think it should look a lot better.

 

[Steve Christou]

Some interesting info on the cast of Rio Bravo's wages from Scott Eyman's excellent bio 'John Wayne - The Life and Legend'

Once his cast was set, Hawks shot his movie in sixty-one days, six days over schedule, from May 4 to July 23, 1958. Under the contract he signed on April 1, Wayne was paid a flat $750,000 for his services, spread out in one payment of $250,000, two payments of $175,000, and one payment of $150,000—one payment a year for four years, from 1958 to 1961. (Spacing out the money was a means of avoiding the heaviest income tax percentage.)


For the rest of the cast, Dean Martin got $5,000 a week for ten weeks, with two weeks added for postproduction. If Hawks had known how Martin felt about John Wayne westerns he could have gotten him for free. “I remember third shows at the Copa where [Dean would] speed up so as not to miss the three A.M. showing of John Wayne in Red River or Stagecoach,” remembered Jerry Lewis. “In fact, I’ll swear: as much as Dean loved the ladies, when the fun was done, he preferred being left alone to watch his westerns or read his comic books. Women always seemed to need the kind of attention he wasn’t much interested in giving.”


Ricky Nelson got $3,500 per week with a ten-week guarantee, and Angie Dickinson got $833.33 per week with a twelve-week guarantee. The two payroll surprises were Walter Brennan, who got $10,000 a week for five weeks, and Ward Bond, who got $3,333 a week for six weeks, even though his scenes could easily have been photographed in a couple of days.

 

[Vic Pardo]

Some interesting info on the cast of Rio Bravo's wages from Scott Eyman's excellent bio 'John Wayne - The Life and Legend'

Damn, Angie got screwed on Payday! Where were all the income equality feminists back then?

 

[JoeDoakes]

Damn, Angie got screwed on Payday! Where were all the income equality feminists back then?

It was an early film for her. She didn't even look like Angie Dickenson back then!

 

[Vegas 1]

I voted for both films, both have IMO a solid cast. I have been a John Wayne fan since I can remember.