Lost: Season Six (1 Viewer)

[Tim Gerdes]

Originally Posted by mattCR


Let's assume that on the island they were have-a-heartbeat alive. It was a real place on the planet earth. Let's just assume I buy into that theory. If that's the case, then how is there an explanation at all for:


* Polar Bears,

* The Dead walking around and talking to them and having knowledge of it when they are in heaven

* Human beings who are semi-immortal or immortal

* The existence of a gateway blocked with a boulder to we assume hell

* The fact that no one could become pregnant, and those that do miscarry (which btw, is easily explained if they are in purgatory, as in purgatory you can't ensoul a body from the Guf)

* that new places, buildings and structures seemed to magically appear on the island when needed..

* The fact that multiple, significant murders happen here on the island, and yet, they receive admission into the afterlife so to speak, without going "down the whole" to evil.. if they are in fact, only battling their way to heaven through trials, no problem.. but if they were busy slaughtering real people, then God is awfully forgiving in a lot of sects

* That nuclear radiation meant nothing in a few years at all. Vegetation was beautiful.

When the finale first ended last night, I was disappointed. Processing it late last night I realized I was disappointed mainly because it challenged my belief system. It is easier, somehow, for me to believe in plane-crashing electromagnetism, multiple timelines and nuclear blasts that propel characters through time than it is for me to accept the vision of death and pathway to Heaven that we were presented with.

I mention this because for six years I have watched the show and accepted that the Island is special, that it could heal the sick, prevent aging, etc. etc. I didn't need for it to be heaven, or heaven's gate for me to accept it as reality, albeit a highly fantastical one.


If you can accept that in the Lost universe the "real world" holds a magical Island, I believe that addresses issues like semi-immortal humans and the light that must never go out. It's a special place, and it doesn't need to be heaven to be filled with magic and wonder, at least in my interpretation.


Some of the questions you pose seem to have been addressed already. Or at least seem easily explained to me.


Polar Bears: I always assumed the Polar Bears were brought to the Island by the Dharma initiative, and the one in the jungle escaped from the cages, or was let loose, sometime after the purge. They may have even been using the bears as part of their experiments in time travel. Didn't Charlotte fine polar bear skeletons in the desert?


The Walking Dead: Manifestations of the MIB, trying to manipulate people to his agenda. Eko's brother, Dave from the asylum, Christian. They were all part of his long con.

Infertility: A result of the incident/nuclear explosion.

Murder/Hell: This seems to me exactly why Ben is still in the Purgatory of the flash sideways. He still hasn't come to terms with or made amends for his life, and isn't ready to move on. Whether he can't let go, or he's afraid of being judged, I am not certain. I do like this representation of an afterlife though, because it seems to understand that no one is purely good or evil. We all have shades of grey. It's comforting in the Lost universe that people can do bad things and not be punished for them eternally.

The nuclear radiation: If the Island could cure Rose's cancer and heal John then I guess it could bring vegetation back to life in a fall-out zone. Though in fairness this might contradict the infertility theory.

No matter how you slice it though, life or afterlife, I think we either accept or reject the universe in which this story happened.

 

[Joe*A]

Wonderful ending to a show that pushed the limits on our patience in figuring things out. I had an idea from the beginning that they were all dead. Now, the theories: If you note all the memories that they all had dealt with pure love. Love is always the key to connection with others and with God.


Note also that purgatory is in another dimension than our own, obviously - it has no real time which explains why the characters were jumping to and from times and locations.What took 5 seaons for us in viewing time took no time where the characters found themselves. The island and all the relationships they built after their deaths were set in purgatory - everything we observed was real; as real as what what happening to each character after they died. It's the only way to tie all the loose ends (and there were an infinite number). Great show which frustrated the heck out of me after season 2 but made up for it in the final season; especially the ending.


It's been said in the pre-finale show that "all on the island are flawed". Well, guess what, so are we all which allows the writers to engage us in their ideas of what's next for the characters and us. Interesting concept.


Oh, did you all notice that the church included symbols from all world religions - Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, etc. etc. Nice touch. For Christ said "in my Father's house there are many rooms" [rooms for all those seeking a relationship with God regardless of the road].

 

[Dave Mack]

i'm watching the 2 hr recap special that was on b4 the finale and i gotta tell you unless the narrator, actors and creators in interviews are deliberately misleading us, there is no way that the island events are taking place in a form of purgatory. no way...

 

[WillG]

Oh, did you all notice that the church included symbols from all world religions - Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, etc. etc. Nice touch.

I thought I did, I wanted to rewind that shot, but the people I was watching with wouldn't let me.

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Tim Gerdes
Polar Bears: I always assumed the Polar Bears were brought to the Island by the Dharma initiative, and the one in the jungle escaped from the cages, or was let loose, sometime after the purge. They may have even been using the bears as part of their experiments in time travel. Didn't Charlotte fine polar bear skeletons in the desert?


The Walking Dead: Manifestations of the MIB, trying to manipulate people to his agenda. Eko's brother, Dave from the asylum, Christian. They were all part of his long con.

Infertility: A result of the incident/nuclear explosion.

Murder/Hell: This seems to me exactly why Ben is still in the Purgatory of the flash sideways. He still hasn't come to terms with or made amends for his life, and isn't ready to move on. Whether he can't let go, or he's afraid of being judged, I am not certain. I do like this representation of an afterlife though, because it seems to understand that no one is purely good or evil. We all have shades of grey. It's comforting in the Lost universe that people can do bad things and not be punished for them eternally.

The nuclear radiation: If the Island could cure Rose's cancer and heal John then I guess it could bring vegetation back to life in a fall-out zone. Though in fairness this might contradict the infertility theory.

No matter how you slice it though, life or afterlife, I think we either accept or reject the universe in which this story happened.

Polar Bears: No. You can't assert they suddenly live in warm weather or were brought by Dharma when they were never seen in the events of the past.


Walking Dead: No, they weren't all MIB, in fact, many who spoke to Hurley, etc. were crucial in them finding their way.


Infertility: If there was this result from a nuclear exposion in the 1970s (that none of the rest of the world new about, another sign why I think it is not in the current world) then you'd have a lot more then infertility you'd have a death of all vegetation, etc. The nuclear bomb was the means of sacrifice for Juliet to move forward


Nuclear Radion: (if the island could heal rose's cancer and john) it could heal them because their bodies didn't matter, as Ben pointed out, it was their spirit thatis who they were. You're right, your concept also inerts the infertility bit


I think it's possible that all of us have our own personal interpretation of the universe it happened in And the beauty of the show is, we can debate forever, but we can never know except for what matters to us.

 

[Arild]

Originally Posted by mattCR

I have watched every single episode of LOST. I appreciate it differently then you do. But I find I am baffled why it is so imperative for you to view any opposing opinion as "wrong".

Because it is. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but there you go. I and others have repeatedly provided many and varied reasons why your opinion is wrong, but you continually avoid acknowledging them.

I have no contradiction at all with the flashbacks in relation to this being an afterlife.. in fact, I'm not at all bothered by it at all. I think it bolsters the case this WAS the afterlife, not the other way around. Think about it. You have numerous storylines about how their life went through issues - Sawyer and his seeing his parents die from being conned; Kate on the run for killing an abusive Stepfather, Jack struggling with his life, drugs in season 1, the loss of a father.

Clearly, the Island was a place which enabled the characters to sort out their baggage and "move on" (figuratively! not literally!). That is not in dispute. But that doesn't mean they were dead. And this isn't the point I was arguing at all, which you are still avoiding. I wasn't talking about Jack's or Sawyer's or Kate's flashbacks at all.

I believe Juliet was dead long before the losties arrived. As was Ben. And Richard was most assuredly dead.

And you're basing this on--? That's right. You're not basing it on anything the show has told us, in fact, the show has contradicted this outright. (We SAW all of their literal arrivals on the island, none of which involved death. While you could technically argue that Richard died when the Black Rock crashed, the same does not hold true for Juliet or Ben.) You're basing it on your own assumptions regarding the nature of the show. And this is the problem with your interpretation: You're seeing the show for what you want it to be about rather than what it actually is.


There's no harm in that. I probably shouldn't get so hung up on it, I just get annoyed when I see someone presenting what I think is a very obviously wrong view. But you know - why are we here, if not to debate these things?

 

[Arild]

* Polar Bears,

Brought there by Dharma. This was explicitly explained on the show, repeatedly.

* The Dead walking around and talking to them and having knowledge of it when they are in heaven

The dead we've seen walking around were clearly not in Heaven. They were, in Michael's words "the ones who couldn't move on". They were ghosts, plain and simple.

* Human beings who are semi-immortal or immortal

What's the problem with this? Clearly there were mystical powers at work on the Island. Doesn't mean it was Purgatory.

* The existence of a gateway blocked with a boulder to we assume hell

Well - you assume it was hell, anyway.

* The fact that no one could become pregnant, and those that do miscarry (which btw, is easily explained if they are in purgatory, as in purgatory you can't ensoul a body from the Guf)

Ethan was conceived and born on the Island. Ji Yeon was conceived on the Island and born elsewhere. Doesn't this, using your own logic, completely invalidate your viewpoint?

* that new places, buildings and structures seemed to magically appear on the island when needed..

That's a very weak argument. It was a very big Island and the characters never did try to map it out (except possibly when they were in the Dharma Initiative, but during that time their movement was limited only to certain areas of the Island). So those places were there all along, we just never saw them.

* The fact that multiple, significant murders happen here on the island, and yet, they receive admission into the afterlife so to speak, without going "down the whole" to evil.. if they are in fact, only battling their way to heaven through trials, no problem.. but if they were busy slaughtering real people, then God is awfully forgiving in a lot of sects

But see, here you are assuming that the afterlife in Lost works in a certain way. Maybe Lost takes the viewpoint that "everyone" goes to Heaven? Or maybe those who committed murder went on to redeem themselves before passing on?

* That nuclear radiation meant nothing in a few years at all. Vegetation was beautiful.

What nuclear radiation? We know now, the bomb didn't go off.

 

[Tim Gerdes]

Originally Posted by mattCR :


Polar bears were brought to the Island by the DHARMA Initiative, who held them in cages at the Hydra station. (The World of the Others) Text on the blast door map suggests that DHARMA Initiative researchers were attempting to genetically modify the polar bears to allow them to survive warmer climates. At least some of the polar bears survived the Purge, after which they were freed from their cages and swam to the main Island. (Access Granted) After the crash of Oceanic Flight 815 in 2004, survivors of the crash occasionally encountered and were threatened by the bears, and Charlotte Lewis discovered the skeleton of a DHARMA Initiative polar bear in Tunisia that same year.

I think it's possible that all of us have our own personal interpretation of the universe it happened in And the beauty of the show is, we can debate forever, but we can never know except for what matters to us.

I think we're basically saying the same thing here. We have different interpretations of what we saw, but neither of us seem to feel as if we were burned by six years of storytelling that didn't align after the final twist.

 

[mattCR]

Originally Posted by Arild



Because it is. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but there you go. I and others have repeatedly provided many and varied reasons why your opinion is wrong, but you continually avoid acknowledging them.



Clearly, the Island was a place which enabled the characters to sort out their baggage and "move on" (figuratively! not literally!). That is not in dispute. But that doesn't mean they were dead. And this isn't the point I was arguing at all, which you are still avoiding. I wasn't talking about Jack's or Sawyer's or Kate's flashbacks at all. (1)



And you're basing this on--? That's right. You're not basing it on anything the show has told us, in fact, the show has contradicted this outright. (We SAW all of their literal arrivals on the island, none of which involved death. While you could technically argue that Richard died when the Black Rock crashed, the same does not hold true for Juliet or Ben.) You're basing it on your own assumptions regarding the nature of the show. And this is the problem with your interpretation: You're seeing the show for what you want it to be about rather than what it actually is. (2)


There's no harm in that. I probably shouldn't get so hung up on it, I just get annoyed when I see someone presenting what I think is a very obviously wrong view. But you know - why are we here, if not to debate these things?

Aarid, I'm really concerned as to why this matters to you so much to defend your line of thought against a different viewpoint when we both enjoyed the series (?)


But,


(1) Ok, which flashbacks, reflective on their life, specifically disprove that there were in purgatory, or more to the fact, prove without a doubt that they had a pulse and that the island interacted on the globe as we know it.


(2) I would argue you are seeing the show for what you want it to be. How they get to the island, whether it's a plane crash (which happened a few times) a boat accident, or an arrival with parents as part of a science mission, doesn't prove or disprove either theory. This is the thing, you're making an assertion 'since we saw them arrive safe and sound in a boat/sub/whatever, that means' Why? Why does it mean that at all? Yes, I'm asserting what I want to assert, but the show never makes any effort to say my interpretation cannot be valid. But I don't see it disposing of either way to look at the show. And, like I said, I assume that because it fits more closely to the way I want to look at the show, just as you dismiss what I view as significant problems if this is the geographic earth/real world because you assert your view. It's the nature of the viewer to see what they want to see.

The dead we've seen walking around were clearly not in Heaven. They were, in Michael's words "the ones who couldn't move on". They were ghosts, plain and simple.

Ah yes, those who can't move on and thus are stuck on the island. Makes sense. Happens all the time in Kansas

What's the problem with this? Clearly there were mystical powers at work on the Island. Doesn't mean it was Purgatory.

Ok, and I understand that's a view of it, and I respect that view. Let me just say, that is a view I struggled with last night. But I find that view so depressing, that if I believe that is the intent, I might as well give up on the whole show and write it off as having maybe the worst finale of all time. Because if it is a mystical island with super powers, then the contradictions of what it could do and couldn't, the prescence of MiB and Jacob just makes me feel as though we propped up a mythical mcguffin that in the end means... nothing. It means the entirety of the storyline of the Dharma initiative is pointless padding we wasted seasons on. It means the attempt to find science and infertility was creepy and weird and again, meant nothing. It means that out of the whole show, we could have summed up the entire storyline in about 6 episodes and instead we suffered through years of padding.

When I first viewed the show, that was one of the thoughts that went through my mind. But it's simply the one I chose not to follow. I understand where those who follow that are. But since the show goes to great effort to put all the right illusions in names and presentation of iconic events in many religious texts, it gives me an out to explain that all of that actually meant something, that they were in fact, the trials of the spirit and so whoever arrived fits into that view.


I understand why others chose the other view. I simply can't. If I did, I'd instead post here on how we just wasted six years on a storyline which meant, in the end, nothing.

Well - you assume it was hell, anyway.

No, not just me, actually.. it was inferred by the original guardian who said it was part of the world every man wanted, but if they had it would destroy them all. The thought ranged from eden to hell or whatever, but in the end, it was no matter what term you use a mystical gateway of sort.

That's a very weak argument. It was a very big Island and the characters never did try to map it out (except possibly when they were in the Dharma Initiative, but during that time their movement was limited only to certain areas of the Island). So those places were there all along, we just never saw them.

MIB did. In his conversation with Jacob, he told him he never found the glen, he had walked all over the island, "every square inch" he said in 30 years.. and yet "things never seemed the same"

But see, here you are assuming that the afterlife in Lost works in a certain way. Maybe Lost takes the viewpoint that "everyone" goes to Heaven? Or maybe those who committed murder went on to redeem themselves before passing on?

Could be. But again, if these were the souls they shared the most important part of their life journey with, then any redemption they received afterwards should have pulled them out of that church and made their heaven the event that redeemed them. If everyone goes to heaven, ie, there is no free will, they just moved on, then Benjamin shouldn't have walked away he should have went in. I prefer to believe that ala Aquinas, they chose their own measure to find worth in the eyes of Peter before God

I think we're basically saying the same thing here. We have different interpretations of what we saw, but neither of us seem to feel as if we were burned by six years of storytelling that didn't align after the final twist.

That's all I'm saying. We all enjoyed it. We just did so differently. And, really, I like hearing the debate from those who view it the other way. I just find it too depressing, like really depressing from a storytelling viewpoint, to think about the story that way

 

[Dave Mack]

matt, i honestly am digging your posts. you would so kick ass as a lawyer, debater!
Did you see the original Donnie Darko? If so, what was your take?

 

[mattCR]

Actually, love Donnie Darko.. I though, take the simple view, I really like the director's interpretation a lot.. that Darko is empowered to close a tangent universe in order to save the real one, and has a limited time period to do it with. I really enjoyed Darko, BTW. I tend to like films and stories where they give you enough tangents and references that it is open to interpretation, and I think it makes for better critical thinking.


(and yes, I did college debate with.. um.. let's say.. some significant success in my youth, but that's almost two decades ago, and for those that know: CEDA)

 

[Dave Mack]

well, you haven't lost your touch, hombre.

 

[Malcolm R]

So...how do we explain Nikki and Paolo?

 

[Paul_Scott]

Had to wait to see it on Hulu, then had to read the last 5 pages or so of this thread- so many good observations mixed in with a lot of back and forth over a point that seems maddeningly obvious (frankly this thread is a purgatory that I can't seem to move past just yet).


Cried like a baby for much of the run time- I didn't need to wait till Sawyer connected with Juliet, they were plenty of affecting moments for me all through the episode.

After digesting it a bit my thoughts are - this is about as clear an example of 'the whole amounting to much less than the sum of its parts' as any I've ever seen.


This show had a spectacular hook. Like Battlestar Galactica, the idea of a small group surviving a horrendous catastrophe and foraging on through one peril after another in search of a sanctuary/home/return to normalcy is something that easily taps into a post 9-11 zeitgeist.

Also like BSG, it was superb example of high quality, intelligent dramatic serial storytelling- with a sci-fi sheen.

And, sadly, just like BSG in the end, there really was no diabolically intricate plan in place after all.

I was emotionally spent after the credits rolled on the last ep of BSG too- but it didn't take long to come to really resent how in-cohesive the show ultimately was after all- and just how much the creators ended up betraying some of their characters to get to the sentimental (in place of sensible) curtain call (think of Adama Sr, what emotional connection he is craving at the start of the series, and then contrast that with the seemingly arbitrary decision he makes at the end- ugh)


My initial reaction is that LOST is a bit more successful because so much of the run time of the series was devoted to exploring the characters in-depth, and the end doesn't necessarily betray any of the characters. On that level, it's satisfying to see closure in this way.


OTOH, I have to agree with Mendelson on much of this

But what we are otherwise left with are simplistic notions of sacrifice and redemption, complete with the idea that the ditzy-blond you boned for two weeks can be your soul mate as opposed to the actual love of your life, and how quickly you can accept your tragic fate and move forward is directly proportional to how big a star you were in your island adventures. The finale didn't matter because the story it told was seemingly invented from whole cloth at just the start of this season. By creating a whole new mythology in its final season, in a failed attempt to give the show 'deeper meanings', the series chose to ignore everything that viewers had become invested in. It takes a certain chutzpah to craft a finale to a long-running series that purely centers around incidents revealed in the last four episodes and the revelations behind a narrative-strand that was unveiled at the start of the final sixth of the story.

I just started watching the show 2 months ago, so I don't have the time invested in thinking about it, that most of you here do. It was a great way to experience it (no commercial breaks, one after the other) and in reviewing the threads for each season afterward, a lot of things that didn't play well in a one ep a week context, played just fine for me on disc.

But then the problem now is, so much of the series is still fresh in my mind- and so much of it is ultimately unnecessary running in place.

On the one hand I understand how people can crave all this sentimental folderol, and invest it with meaning- on the other I just have to sadly shake my head that another 'smart' show resolves itself not through complex pragmatical ideas (the mechanics of actions and reactions/ causes and effects) that play by rules already established, but rather through arbitrary mysticism that plays according to writers fancies at any point in time.


After the end of the fourth season, I thought this was the best TV series I had ever seen.

At the end of the sixth I can say definitively this is one of the best TV series I have ever seen, but compromised by a finale that resolves the last season fine, but not the series as a whole.


Time Travel, electro-magnetic fields, space time anomolies...who cares? just let them go, my friend, so that you can go graze with the rest of the flock.

 

[Jeffery_H]

Originally Posted by Arild



Because it is. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but there you go. I and others have repeatedly provided many and varied reasons why your opinion is wrong, but you continually avoid acknowledging them.



Clearly, the Island was a place which enabled the characters to sort out their baggage and "move on" (figuratively! not literally!). That is not in dispute. But that doesn't mean they were dead. And this isn't the point I was arguing at all, which you are still avoiding. I wasn't talking about Jack's or Sawyer's or Kate's flashbacks at all.



And you're basing this on--? That's right. You're not basing it on anything the show has told us, in fact, the show has contradicted this outright. (We SAW all of their literal arrivals on the island, none of which involved death. While you could technically argue that Richard died when the Black Rock crashed, the same does not hold true for Juliet or Ben.) You're basing it on your own assumptions regarding the nature of the show. And this is the problem with your interpretation: You're seeing the show for what you want it to be about rather than what it actually is.


There's no harm in that. I probably shouldn't get so hung up on it, I just get annoyed when I see someone presenting what I think is a very obviously wrong view. But you know - why are we here, if not to debate these things?

As I have said before, I can see both sides to this and mattcr does have a view which some others may share. Not everyone has to see things your way and it does not make you correct in anything because it is open and can be seen in different ways. It is as simple as that.

 

[EricW]

if The Island was purgatory, then did the Aaron and the Kwon kid exist, or are they as fake as Jacks' kid in the flash-sides?

edit -> maybe they died as infants in the real world and this is how they enter purgatory?

second question: when the O6 return to the real world, was that also purgatory or were they given "life" back and it actually was the real world?

 

[Paul_Scott]

Originally Posted by Josh Dial 1590#post_3694452


- "Locke and Jack are bothing missing "baggage." Easily read into."

To me this looks like another attempt at symbolism or metaphor that, like much of the show in retrospect, doesn't jell.

What both characters have at this point in narrative time is still too much baggage. I guess you would have to have faith that Cuse and Lindelof are trying to be ironic here.

Originally Posted by Michael Harris 1410#post_3694039

This is going to be a bittersweet evening. I've been sharing my experiences watching "Lost" with a good friend who has terminal cancer. Every Tuesday we get on gmail chat and "watch" together. Today I got word that she had a seizure and is drugged up. I'm recording the finale for her. Finger crossed.

Any update on your friend Michael? I would imagine in your circumstance the show would have packed an even bigger punch. I hope she was, or will be, able to enjoy it.

 

[Jeffery_H]

Originally Posted by EricW


if The Island was purgatory, then did the Aaron and the Kwon kid exist, or are they as fake as Jacks' kid in the flash-sides?

edit -> maybe they died as infants in the real world and this is how they enter purgatory?

second question: when the O6 return to the real world, was that also purgatory or were they given "life" back and it actually was the real world?

Well, there are certainly different ways to look at this and like I said things are open for different views. But if they were not dead and were in fact alive, then how could Jack see his Dad again off the island? Remember before they returned back to the island Jack's Dad appeared to him at least once I know. One time was when Jack was asking for a pain killer prescription and he was talking to a lady Doctor. His Dad came to him somewhere in this scene but I can't remember which episode off hand. Purgatory is not like heaven, each person can see things from their point of view and construct their own reality to work through things. In fact if you look up purgatory there is much to read about. You wanted to know if they were alive then or not and I don't know it can really be answered for a fact. But if you take mattcr view they were dead all along, it would explain how Jack could see his Dad appear to him even after he was supposed to have left the island. His Dad was watching over him like a guardian angel and hoping he would work through his inner demons in purgatory.

 

[Josh Dial]

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein


The show's creators said not all the questions would be

answered in the finale. They should have said NONE of

the questions would be addressed in the finale.

They didn't say it because it would have been incorrect. 95% of the questions were answered by the end of the finale. For a portion of that 95%, there are a few different "takes" (see the debate between Matt and everyone else), but they *are* there.


Seriously, ask me a question, any question, and I'll show you the answers, complete with episode references. If you ask one of the questions to which I feel there is no answer, I'll write as much, and perhaps one of the other posters will offer one forward.

 

[pitchman]

Originally Posted by Holadem

I wonder if those who really loved the finale can understand why some of us didn't. As in, can truly understand where we are coming from, or even relate a little bit.


It's truly strange: Not a couple of weeks ago, some of the most vigorous defenders of the series were adamant that the struggle between Jacob and MiB was central to the series. To the occasional poster who would accuse the writers of "making it up as they go along", we would get staunch defenses explaining how the central conflict of the show was laid out from the very beginning, with the backgammon game in the pilot ( I recall someone even posting a picture of Locke holding the black and white stones.)


--

H

I always respect and enjoy reading your thoughtful, insightful comments about Lost. I definitely understand where you're coming from, and in point of fact, I am one of those folks who was complaining (loudly) leading up to the finale. My main concern was that the way it was being set up, it would all boil down to a simple battle of good versus evil. That proved to not to be the case at all. In fact, the "epic" battle was totally downplayed and arrived relatively early in the story. That is precisely what made it such a satisfying conclusion for me. I wanted more, and they gave me more...much more. In the end, it all works for me. As always, this is YMMV thing and I can certainly understand and respect why the finale doesn't work for everyone.