Cast iron and carbon steel cookware: or I'll never trade in convenience for quality (and health) again! (1 Viewer)

[Carlo_M]

As with many people, during the pandemic I picked up a hobby (several, actually). One of them was home cooking, for obvious reasons. Over the last year, I've unearthed a couple of old cast iron (CI) pieces I've had...I bought them maybe 10 years ago but rarely used them (one Lodge 9" pan, one Le Creuset enameled cast iron pan). Mostly because of "fear of cleanup and care". Both were seasoned but just to be safe I bought some BuzzyWaxx and re-seasoned them.

The other reason I didn't use my CI pans much was their weight. So a few months ago I purchased a Matfer Bourgeat carbon steel (CS) pan. For those who don't know, CS pans share nearly all of the benefits of CI, but have a few added pros:

• CS is about 40% lighter than CI, size-for-size
• They're smoother surfaced (yeah I know you can get a really polished/smooth cast iron but it will cost you, Smithey CI pans cost $100-$200 but I'll be darned if they aren't gorgeous) so once they're seasoned they, in my experience, are a tad easier to get to "nonstick" levels than CI
• Have better, more even heat distribution, and get up to temp faster. I cook on a gas stove and when using my infrared thermometer I can confirm fewer hot spots on CS than CI, and whereas I heat up my CI for 6-8 minutes before cooking, I can get my CS pan up to cooking heat in ~3 minutes

In kitchens and restaurants all over Europe, CS pans are pretty much the de facto standard. In Asia, most woks are made of CS. Basically it's only in the U.S. where we've fallen in love with the convenience of nonstick cookware, at least at home, where CS is a rarity, and CI is more of a gimmicky "I use mine to get that steakhouse quality for meat" use case.

I made the decision years ago to forego nonstick cookware, there was just too much research coming out about PTFE and PFOA, and even with the new "safer" teflon...let's just say I still have my doubts. Initially I went with the more eco-nonstick type of pan that used ceramic coating which purported to be PTFE and PFOA free. But the cooking results just weren't satisfactory (and yes some of it is my skill). I ended up just eating out more (or, when COVID hit, ordering in). Until about a year ago when I decided I'd try to up my home cooking game and dug out my CI pans and bought the CS pan.

After having cooked almost exclusively with CS and CI...I will never trade in convenience for cooking quality again. Yes, you do have to season the cookware. But, honestly it's not difficult and once you do it, it's pretty much set. The only caveat is don't cook anything highly reactive/acidic in it (like tomato sauce) which will strip away the seasoning. But even if you do, you can just re-season it. But I cook my pasta (and other acidic) sauces, in an enameled dutch oven style pot which garners better results anyway.

Everything I've thrown at the CS and CI pans comes out way better than what it did on the ceramic (and nonstick) cookware. I won't say I'm getting restaurant quality food...my skill still leaves a lot to be desired. But, cooking with CS and CI, at the proper temperatures (both hold temp way better than ceramic and nonstick pans which often have an aluminum and/or copper base). Steaks get the great sear and caramelized reaction and then are finished to a medium-rare in the oven. Eggs, with just a small dollop of oil or butter, release easily. Frying things like pork chops and fish also gives that nice sear while still keeping the inside tender and juicy result. Stir fry has come out well (I think a CS wok is in my future so it makes it easier to quickly toss and aerate while cooking). Even pancakes...which I thought were the main reason, along with eggs, to use nonstick...come out fantastic. Sure, you don't get that super smooth and even brown color you get with nonstick, but what you do get is a delicious bit of crisp on the edges, which I never got on nonstick. I greatly prefer pancakes on either my CS or CI pan now. What's really cool about the CS pan is, since it's made from the same material as a wok, even reheating leftovers from Chinese take-out on it (or most Asian foods) results in it tasting like it just came out of their kitchen again!

Yes, there is a learning curve. But it's not steep, and YouTube makes for an amazing resource. I'm a cooking dunce novice so if I can do it, just about anyone can. And cleanup does take a bit of an "unlearning". With normal pots/pans/dishes I am super anal-retentive about getting it to that spot-shine clean. With CS and CI, for most things that don't leave charred bits on the pan, just a rinse with hot water, and if needed a drop or two of soap (as long as your pan is seasoned, a small amount of mild dish soap will not strip the seasoning) and a nylon brush (Lodge sells it for like $10) is all you need. If you do some heavy searing/frying and there are charred bits left, put hot water in it, bring it to a boil, then use a chainmail scrubber (again, like $10, make sure it's one made for the intended purpose of cleaning CS/CI pans) to scrub the bits out, then rinse with water.

Always dry thoroughly. I like to put it back on my stove and run it on low for a couple of minutes until all the water evaporates. The trick is you actually don't want to get it spot-shine clean because that will strip away the seasoning. That was a mental hurdle for me, but once I made it, I'm happy as a clam cooking with these pans.

Just wanted to paste this here in case there were others who may be interested in moving away from nonstick cookware. Not only will moving to CS/CI reduce your exposure to harmful chemicals, but once you learn the technique of cooking on CS/CI, your dishes will improve in taste.

I'd also be interested to hear from others who have migrated to CI or CS. I assume with most of us being in the U.S. that CI will be more popular. But for our non-U.S. members, do you use CS? I'm a huge fan of Matfer Bourgeat now. I need to get a larger one (I started with a small 8" CS pan) and I can't decide if I'll stay in the Matfer family or try out a de Buyer Mineral B pan (which seems to get similar rave accolades) for a future 11" pan.

Oh, pics might be helpful.

Here's my Matfer Bourgeat 8" carbon steel pan:
Pre-seasoning (straight from Amazon)


Seasoned


Cooking a pancake


And my Lodge and Le Creuset cast iron pans (LC is the red enameled)


The only three things for care I've needed:

 

[Lord Dalek]

Tip about carbon steel woks. Once you got em clean, put it back on the burner at high heat to make sure its completely dry. Those can still rust if you're not careful.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I’m the cook in my household (for lunch and dinner) and I use a mixture of different pans - stainless, nonstick, cast iron and enameled iron. I think they each have their strengths and weaknesses so I wouldn’t want to lose any of them in my arsenal.

The cast iron is ideal for a lot of things - I have the most inexpensive Lodge pans, and I re-season myself as needed, which isn’t often. If I’m making up for not being able to grill outside, that’s absolutely the go-to.

Stainless gets a lot of use, too. There are some things that I just don’t think I can prepare as well with any other type of surface, particularly dishes where I’m sautéing a piece of chicken and then making a reduction or quick pan sauce. I think on average a stainless does the best job of accumulating the fond from cooking meats that can be transformed into a flavorful sauce.

The enameled iron Dutch oven gets a significant amount of use in the fall and winter months with lots of braised meats and stews.

I still tend to use nonstick if I’m either shallow pan frying (chicken cutlets and that sort of thing), or sweating or caramelizing onions for use in another dish. My wife uses the nonstick for breakfast eggs. I know that I could use other pans for these tasks but sometimes simple/reliable/easy is best. The cleanup and maintenance for non-stick is so simple relative to the other choices that it makes sense for us to use them as part of our repertoire. (When you have little kids running around, sometimes there just isn’t time for pans that require scrubbing and hot water rinses and reheats on stoves and reseasonings and stuff like that.)

 

[BobO'Link]

I live in the South - CI is a staple in a properly set up kitchen (which are, sadly, few and far between) if you want to cook like grandma use to cook and have things taste "right." You *need* it to make "proper" cornbread. You've not lived until you've had southern home made biscuits and scones cooked in a CI pan (crispy/crunchy on the outside, soft and tender inside). Since we "fry everything" you're basically required to use one for frying as well - *especially* fried chicken and livers.

We have several pieces from flat/griddle to frying pans to dutch ovens. No CS though as my wife doesn't care for Chinese so I just get that "take out" when I get the urge (though we do have stainless with a CS core). I'd love to have a good CS wok though...

 

[Carlo_M]

@Josh Steinberg I totally agree about fond and stainless steel. No substitute for that, especially if the liquid you want to add is acidic and could strip away seasoning in CI or CS (otherwise, CS does a decent job with fond as well). I don't cook this style very often (I'm not good at it) so my SS doesn't get as much use as CS and CI do.

@BobO'Link funny you mention corn bread. That was the first and most often cooked item in my CI when I first got it. Made dozens of batches using different recipes. And yes, proper cornbread from a CI pan is not replicable via any other method. I will try to make biscuits on it at some point in the future.

I want to be clear that CS is also not just for Asian cuisine (it's most known for being the go-to material for woks). It is enormously popular in Western Europe. In fact the two "best known" names in carbon steel cookware are de Buyer and Matfer Bourgeat, both French companies and both still making their pans in France. Just like how you say CI is a staple for any proper kitchen in the south, CS is basically the same in France/W.Europe.

And as Dalek mentioned, absolutely make sure all your CI and CS are bone dry after washing, woks included. As I mentioned in my first post, I put all my CS and CI back on the stove over medium/low heat for a few minutes after washing just to make sure all water has evaporated prior to storing.

Ironic I posted this today, as I was out with a friend and we came across a nice little home goods store (it was a bit bougie due to the area of WLA we were at). Turns out they are one of the few places that carry Smithey cast iron pans. Since this post was on my mind, I splurged and got myself a pan because it just looked so darned beautiful. It comes pre-seasoned, but I'm seasoning it as we speak anyway and can't wait to cook my first meal on it.

The main difference between this and the lodge is how smooth it's polished on the cooking surface. It's almost stainless steel like in it's smoothness.

 

[Clinton McClure]

I use CI for cornbread only (which I only make once or twice a year). If anyone tells you their cornbread from any pan other than a CI is just as good, they can go soak their head.

Everything else gets cooked in whatever the new nonstick Teflon replacement coated pans are. Normally, all I ever cook are scrambled eggs every morning and the occasional bit of ground beef for tacos but on occasion, my wife will make stir fry or pan seared something or other. We’ve started using a crock pot to cook fish and chicken so we don’t fry in grease or oil anymore.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

@Josh Steinberg I totally agree about fond and stainless steel. No substitute for that, especially if the liquid you want to add is acidic and could strip away seasoning in CI or CS (otherwise, CS does a decent job with fond as well). I don't cook this style very often (I'm not good at it) so my SS doesn't get as much use as CS and CI do.

Always happy to offer some pointers if you ever want to get more into that kind of cooking.

I agree, the cast iron does fine with the fond itself, but that’s not the pan I want to go dumping a cup of vinegar or wine into on a regular basis.

I don’t have as much of a space issue as I did in my last kitchen, but in my previous apartment, space was the big enemy of cast iron. Using it was one thing, but I didn’t necessarily have a great spot to leave it to cool down after using it, or a good place to let it dry out after rinsing it off.

I can imagine returning to more regular cast iron usage after my kids are a little older (I really do love it), when I don’t have to immediately pivot from making the meal to feeding the family to putting them to bed. Right now anything that can get soaked overnight and dealt with later is my friend

 

[dana martin]

I live in the South - CI is a staple in a properly set up kitchen (which are, sadly, few and far between) if you want to cook like grandma use to cook and have things taste "right." You *need* it to make "proper" cornbread. You've not lived until you've had southern home made biscuits and scones cooked in a CI pan (crispy/crunchy on the outside, soft and tender inside). Since we "fry everything" you're basically required to use one for frying as well - *especially* fried chicken and livers.

We have several pieces from flat/griddle to frying pans to dutch ovens. No CS though as my wife doesn't care for Chinese so I just get that "take out" when I get the urge (though we do have stainless with a CS core). I'd love to have a good CS wok though...

Alright Howie,

Got to ask have you ever tried rolling the chicken livers up in bacon and then frying them? Delicious, that and some fried potato slices, with creamed tomatoes, and another cast-iron with cornbread, that's Sunday after church dinner right there!

3 Cast Iron pans- 2 Skillets Both Lodge and one enamel Dutch Oven (Martha Stewart)

i do have some cast iron bake wear as well

1 complete Stainless Steel set of pots and Pans

 

[BobO'Link]

Alright Howie,

Got to ask have you ever tried rolling the chicken livers up in bacon and then frying them? Delicious, that and some fried potato slices, with creamed tomatoes, and another cast-iron with cornbread, that's Sunday after church dinner right there!

3 Cast Iron pans- 2 Skillets Both Lodge and one enamel Dutch Oven (Martha Stewart)

i do have some cast iron bake wear as well

1 complete Stainless Steel set of pots and Pans

No, I've never had chicken livers with bacon. Honestly, to get the bacon as crispy as I insist on it being the livers would likely be overcooked so... I rarely get them at all as my wife won't each chicken, much less livers, so I only get them when I'm willing to fry up a mess just for myself. I go for plain battered and fried (sometimes with onions cooked along with the livers), gravy made with some of the cooking grease, biscuits (covered with gravy), and fresh sliced tomato (also covered with gravy).

 

[dana martin]

No, I've never had chicken livers with bacon. Honestly, to get the bacon as crispy as I insist on it being the livers would likely be overcooked so... I rarely get them at all as my wife won't each chicken, much less livers, so I only get them when I'm willing to fry up a mess just for myself. I go for plain battered and fried (sometimes with onions cooked along with the livers), gravy made with some of the cooking grease, biscuits (covered with gravy), and fresh sliced tomato (also covered with gravy).

sounds like a slice of heaven, and at the same time I can hear arteries hardening

 

[Carlo_M]

Let me give a hearty two thumbs up for the Smithey cast iron pan.

Yes, it's a luxury purchase. Yes, it's an heirloom pan. One you'll be proud to hand down to your kids. Or sell it to them

I remember one of the things that frustrated me with the Lodge many years ago when I first bought it was, even after seasoning it a few times (and it came pre-seasoned from the factory), things still had a tendency to stick. Not horribly, but I had to put some decent elbow grease to get some bits out especially after searing then baking steaks. Of course, as with all things CI, eventually the seasoning layers did build up and now it's bulletproof.

I literally just bought the Smithey today (which also comes seasoned from the factory), washed and dried it and put one light coat of BuzzyWaxx on it and heated it up to the smoke point and then let it cool. That's all. It just looked like such a well-machined piece of cookware I decided to throw the book at it tonight.

6oz loin filet brought to room temp, salted and peppered. Put the ghee on. Got the pan up searing temp. Soon as I put the filet on I hurriedly hit the vent because it seared with a vengeance. 60 seconds a side. Meat released flawlessly each time. Put it in the oven for 5 minutes at 425F. Rest for 3 minutes. Perfect medium rare with that caramelization going on. Juicy as all get-out. If I was charged $30 for this cut of meat in a nice restaurant, I wouldn't have blinked. Local butcher charged me $7.

After the meal, I rinsed the Smithey with hot water and 15 seconds with the round nylon brush, easy-peasy looks like new but just a little darker (as it should). Another light application of BuzzyWaxx, put it on the stove for 6 minutes over medium-high heat, and it's now cooling for storage. Or I may just leave it on the stove top it looks so boss.

If the Lodge had acted like this 10 years ago, I never would have shied away from cooking with it.

At first I was really skeptical at the price I paid for it, but I justified it as a one-time vanity purchase. Now I'm considering going back and getting the 6" one to make small one-person self-contained dishes in it.

 

[BobO'Link]

If the Lodge had acted like this 10 years ago, I never would have shied away from cooking with it.

If you'd only known then what you know now... As I'm sure you know, the main "failing" of cast iron is people just don't season it and think it can be used like a normal pan/skillet, especially new-to-CI users (if they have no experienced cook to guide them). I've seen folks put them in soapy water and scrub them with wool pads like any other pan. I cringe every time...

I had to look up BuzzyWaxx. Why are you not just using Crisco (solid *or* oil - either will work). It's much less expensive and works exactly the same.

 

[BobO'Link]

sounds like a slice of heaven, and at the same time I can hear arteries hardening

It's also something you do *not* want to eat less than a week or two before getting cholesterol checked...

For a few years, the KFC here had livers every Wednesday. I'd buy a pint every week and eat them as a snack.

 

[dana martin]

It's also something you do *not* want to eat less than a week or two before getting cholesterol checked...

For a few years, the KFC here had livers every Wednesday. I'd buy a pint every week and eat them as a snack.

We still got a couple places in the Norfolk area that have them. But not KFC think Pollard's Chicken does livers, they also do gizzards.

 

[Carlo_M]

If you'd only known then what you know now... As I'm sure you know, the main "failing" of cast iron is people just don't season it and think it can be used like a normal pan/skillet, especially new-to-CI users (if they have no experienced cook to guide them). I've seen folks put them in soapy water and scrub them with wool pads like any other pan. I cringe every time...

So to be clear: I did season my Lodge many years ago when I first bought it with a high smoke point oil at the time (I want to say grapeseed or canola) even though Lodge claimed it was pre-seasoned. Even after I seasoned it 3X prior to first cooking, sometimes (not always) things still stuck. It took quite a while until it was as bulletproof as it is now. Which is why I was so pleasantly surprised that my Smithey is essentially as nonstick (and actually feels more nonstick) than my Lodge after one seasoning pass with BuzzyWaxx. Despite searing a seasoned loin filet, which left charred remnants behind, none of those remnants stuck, they were easily removed with a couple of swirls of the nylon brush, and then the pan looked like new.

I had to look up BuzzyWaxx. Why are you not just using Crisco (solid *or* oil - either will work). It's much less expensive and works exactly the same.

So as I said, I traditionally used grapeseed or canola oil which seems to be highly recommended by the cast iron community on the web. I do not use Crisco or other solid shortening in my cooking, so I don't have any around the house. I have migrated to primarily EVOO and butter for my cooking needs, a health decision I have made along with removing as much plastics use and teflon coated pans in my cooking/food storage needs. For my carbon steel pan, grapeseed was the initial seasoning that I used and it worked well with just a little sticking on the most challenging dishes. But when I moved to BuzzyWaxx, the surface became basically nonstick right after 2 applications. And judging by my initial result with the Smithey, though admittedly I didn't test it with just the factory seasoning, I think I'll be sticking with it. It's only $7 and I've probably used it 10 times (re-seasoning a couple of other pans I have) and more than half is left. Maybe 2/3. So if I can get 30 seasoning passes out of BuzzyWaxx for $7, that's an acceptable price for me. Especially since I don't buy CI/CS pans often.

 

[BobO'Link]

I wonder how much of that initial non-stick on your Smithey is due to the high polish on that pan? If you'd not said what it was I'd have thought it was a slightly discolored stainless pan all because of that "high" polish job. I know that almost all of the cast iron stuff we've purchased has taken up to 6 rounds of seasoning to get to a sufficiently non-stick surface.

 

[Carlo_M]

I certainly think the polishing played a part (and Smithey does pass the added labor/effort cost to the consumer ), but polishing/smoothness by itself isn't cause enough, because otherwise stainless steel would never stick.

Perhaps Smithey is also more diligent about factory seasoning than Lodge is. Being a smaller foundry, and with their price premium, one would hope so.

So if I had to guess, I'd say it was a combination of all three: the polishing-to-smoothness step they do, the [possibly] improved factory seasoning process, and the BuzzyWaxx, which led to this outcome.

 

[Lord Dalek]

The afforementioned wok...

As you can see its rather well loved.

 

[DaveF]

I only recently learned about carbon steel cookware. I’m thinking about buying a pan, but it’s really low on my wishlist. I’m fully stocked as of a couple years ago with All Clad tri-ply, a Lodge Dutch oven, a cast iron skillet, and some non-stick skillets.

I use the cast iron some, but I’ve never been completely sold on it. I don’t dislike it. But for a modern kitchen, to me, it’s a lot of hassle. (And I’ve ruined a cast iron skillet in way I’ve never ruined any other cookware from the most expensive to the cheapest that I’ve owned over the years. I finally discarded it and bought a new $30 skillet and started over a few years ago.)

So, carbon steel. I‘m interested because I like gadgets and learning new cooking techniques. But I’m not enthused about another high-effort, high-maintenance skillet.

 

[Carlo_M]

So tonight I tried to throw the Smithey another curveball. Crispy skin steelhead trout, cooked in ghee, seasoned only with kosher salt and pepper. The skin crisped up tremendously, and the end result was awesome.

Second best part (after the taste)? Rinse with hot water and soap-less sponge and it's like I didn't cook anything in it. Meanwhile the seasoning on the finish has smoothed to an almost glass-like feel.

So did I go back to the store and get the small 6" version? You bet I did. Two coats of BuzzyWaxx applied today. Tomorrow, assuming I have time in the morning, I will try cooking my first ever single-serving Dutch Baby in it. Since it's my first attempt, I'll probably botch it But I'm excited to try it out.
This is the perfect size to toast small batches of seeds and spices, single-serving mac and cheese, one-person Dutch Baby (I love them at my local pancake house but they're too big for me--they use 10" pans I think--and I don't like taking them home as leftovers. I found a few recipes that call for just one egg, 1/4 cup of flour, 1/4 cup of milk (plus the other flavoring ingredients) so it should be a perfect size with no leftovers while also not leaving me hungry.

@DaveF - I don't know what to tell you. If you find CI pans to cumbersome, you may not be thrilled with CS. They are lighter but they also do require the same sort of seasoning effort. I will say that the Matfer Bourgeat took much less seasoning effort than the Lodge. But nothing has been as nearly effortless as these Smithey CI pans.

Yes you pay for it. And yes a lot of the cost is for aesthetics. The Lodge are workhorses, utilitarian tools. Those who know, know, and will appreciate you owning and using one. The Smitheys are just straight up conversation starters, even for those who don't know anything about cast iron cookware.

But I'll also say the Smitheys perform fantastically out of the box. Even though my Lodge is now essentially nonstick through years of use...due to its rough surface, food may release easily for plating and consumption but the charred/sticky bits left behind require some serious elbow grease to remove. These Smithey pans after just two quick and easy seasoning passes (and truth be told, I'm wondering if I could have gotten the same results with just one pass) are releasing like champs. And being polished to the level they are, the seasoning is, as I said, beginning to feel like smooth glass, something the Lodge won't ever become, due to the coarse finish. Cleanup has been an order of magnitude easier than the Lodge. To the point where I've put the Lodge away in storage as these will now be my daily drivers.

For many these will be viewed as luxury purchases. If you don't use them often, then yes, that's what they are. But two meals in and I'm already planning my next several meals with these pans, and that's quite frankly something that's never happened with any cookware I've purchased before. Yes at some point the novelty will wear off, as with all things, but the joy of cooking with these, and the end results I've been getting, will make sure they never go into stretches of storage or disuse like the Lodge has gone through over the years.