List your Top 10 Most Wanted shows from Warner Archives (1 Viewer)

[Jack P]

     Quote:

While I can't speak with absolute certainty on this, I'm pretty sure that other companies have licensed out shows on a time limit basis.

I wasn't talking about a time limit thing, I meant licensing one season at a time. That's never been true of any company that licensed a Universal title until suddenly Shout changed its tune about how its situation with Ironside was. Fox was the only studio I knew of licensing things out one year at a time (or in blocs like with Peyton Place).

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack P

I wasn't talking about a time limit thing, I meant licensing one season at a time. That's never been true of any company that licensed a Universal title until suddenly Shout changed its tune about how its situation with Ironside was. Fox was the only studio I knew of licensing things out one year at a time (or in blocs like with Peyton Place).

Okay, I get what you are saying now. Since I didn't follow the Ironside issue I never got a good picture of the situation. The only thing I can say about Universal "renting" out properties to other companies is that I'm glad they have a good working relationship with Timeless. That's been a gold mine for me over the last year or so! Many great titles have been released. The kind that are right up my alley (50's and early 60's b/w westerns, in particular).



Gary "I still think Warners is purposely avoiding their b/w content and are focusing on color material simply because they believe it will sell better" O.

 

[Jack P]

It's certainly clear to me that if Ironside and Marcus Welby had gone to any label other than Shout, they wouldn't be stalled now. VEI got McMillan And Wife and fast-tracked it to completion. Timeless got Wagon Train and Virginian and will likely finish both of them. Shout is the only label at present to stall out vintage Universal titles after getting control of them (thank goodness Dragnet got finished)

 

[Neil Brock]

At least we can all agree that some studios are good some of the time, except for Fox, which is pretty much bad all of the time (when it comes to their back catalogue). Oh, and if you want to look to see who to blame for the MGM BOD dying a quick death, they are distributed by Fox. There's your answer. Unless you are interested in the 19th repackaging of Buffy, Fox is the worst.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack P

It's certainly clear to me that if Ironside and Marcus Welby had gone to any label other than Shout, they wouldn't be stalled now. VEI got McMillan And Wife and fast-tracked it to completion. Timeless got Wagon Train and Virginian and will likely finish both of them. Shout is the only label at present to stall out vintage Universal titles after getting control of them (thank goodness Dragnet got finished)

I just don't know how you can possibly single Shout out as the only company that would have stalled out those two shows. Every studio/company out there has stalled out series. Universal themselves have stalled out some shows I'd like to have seen continued. Unless Shout or someone else picks up those titles we probably won't see them continued. But that's on Uni, not Shout. Remember, Shout (unlike WB) doesn't own any of the shows they are putting out on dvd. They have to deal with contracts every single time. It just doesn't seem fair to me to put them on the hot seat when Universal should also be right there with them. Heck, I put more blame on Uni because it's their shows that are being stalled out! They don't even have to license these series to anyone if they don't want to. They could be putting these out themselves on dvd. They carry the lion's share of blame as far as I'm concerned. Not Shout.



Gary "no studio/company is perfect when it comes to stalling series out as far as I can tell" O.

 

[Jack P]

All I can do at this point Gary is go by the track record specifically of labels that licensed Universal titles. Shout is the only one of five companies that started titles which are now in cases of stalled/limbo or even possibly abandoned. By no means would I ever let Universal off the hook for their own transgressions, especially when it comes to three titles that only need one more release to be completed ("Night Gallery"; "Baa Baa Black Sheep" and "Hardy Boys"), but in this case the apples to apples comparison I'm thinking of is in regards to the labels that have decided to pick up titles and what they've done. At the moment, the only stuff Timeless is guilty of is not being able to release more episodes of titles they can't complete with more 16mm prints. OTOH, when they have access to shows with tape masters they've been remarkably consistent in coming out with a steady release schedule for long-running titles like "Wagon Train" and "The Virginian" that at least has built up a reliability factor that isn't there for me with Shout!

 

[vnisanian2001]

People, don't be so hard on Jack. If he feels he's been letdown by Shout! Factory, that's fine.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vnisanian2001

People, don't be so hard on Jack. If he feels he's been letdown by Shout! Factory, that's fine.

But if I feel he's being too hard on Shout, that's not fine? Look, Jack and I agree on quite a few things and from my perspective when we have these tit for tat discussions about WB and Shout it's nothing personal and I don't consider it to be out of line. We are just having a very spirited back and forth. That's it. But I do think all views should be allowed as long as they are expressed with respect and not malice.


Gary "still think Shout gets too much grief, but that's just me" O.

 

[Professor Echo]

I just don't understand why thinking Shout is bad means the Warner Archive is good., which seems to be the trend of some of this discussion. Just comparing the two appears to be a little premature at this point given the years Shout has been in business as opposed to the WA, but reaching any kind of definitive conclusions that one is better than the other makes no sense to me. There seems to be a lot of conjecture as to what, when, how and why WA would handle matters contrasted with Shout's attempts, but so far they remain different entities with different track records and I don't think there is enough history with the WA to warrant such seemingly unconditional support, let alone conclusively deem Shout as an inferior outfit based on such comparisons. To me, there is room for improvement with both, but other than that, I don't see any need to group them together unless it's just to debate for the sake of debate, which is a public forum pastime, no doubt.

 

[Jack P]

     Quote:

But if I feel he's being too hard on Shout, that's not fine?  Look, Jack and I agree on quite a few things and from my perspective when we have these tit for tat discussions about WB and Shout it's nothing personal and I don't consider it to be out of line.  We are just having a very spirited back and forth.  That's it.  But I do think all views should be allowed as long as they are expressed with respect and not malice. 

 

 

Gary "still think Shout gets too much grief, but that's just me" O.

And rest assured Gary, I see it precisely in that spirit. I've never thought you were hard on me at all. That said, Shout is going to have to do a lot more than just finish "Adam-12" after the too long delay to change my overall view of them. Unless they put out a title like "Barney Miller" for all at once, I'll never have an instinctive trust that they'll finish what they start. The Fox titles I know wasn't their fault (it also impacted VCI with "Burke's Law") but too many other labels are not experiencing the same difficulties with Universal titles.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack P



Gary "another thought about WBA - will they release a second volume of Christmas classics and, if so, include the better Kildare this time?" O.

 

[vnisanian2001]

And rest assured Gary, I see it precisely in that spirit. I've never thought you were hard on me at all. That said, Shout is going to have to do a lot more than just finish "Adam-12" after the too long delay to change my overall view of them. Unless they put out a title like "Barney Miller" for all at once, I'll never have an instinctive trust that they'll finish what they start. The Fox titles I know wasn't their fault (it also impacted VCI with "Burke's Law") but too many other labels are not experiencing the same difficulties with Universal titles.

I just can't understand why Fox would do this to VCI with Burke's Law. They should be happy that the show did well for them, and instead of giving them more episodes, they act like whiny crybabies and demand more money. Come on Fox, grown a backbone for once. Like I said before, I'll be shocked if Fox continues to act like this towards indies. There's no way they can keep up this stupid game forever. Karma, karma, karma is gonna come knocking on their door one of these days. Just wait and see.

 

[derosa]

That said, Shout is going to have to do a lot more than just finish "Adam-12" after the too long delay to change my overall view of them. Unless they put out a title like "Barney Miller" for all at once, I'll never have an instinctive trust that they'll finish what they start.

I think a lot of us have developed the same lack of trust. It's pretty hard to get excited about any single season release without some knowledge as to the plan for the rest of the seasons, lessons we collectors have been taught the hard way! For example, I waited until season two of Bionic Woman was released, (and the audio issue clarified) and the date for the 3rd season was being discussed, even before ordering season one. Given so many customers usually order dvd's within the first two weeks of release, it's hard to believe the lack of trust has not hurt their sales.

 

[Jack P]

Don't get me wrong, I'll buy the single season releases when they come out. But I'd like the nature of the commitment to be made clear upfront from the get-go. We didn't get that on "Ironside".

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack P


These are the series I've purchased from Shout that were completed: Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best, McHale's Navy, The Patty Duke Show, The Bill Cosby Show, and That Girl. And I know they've released and completed several other series that I just don't have any interest in. They are going to be releasing the complete Barney Miller soon, and I have no reason to believe they will not finish off Adam-12, Dennis the Menace, Mr. Ed and others. Once again, I think this is all about personal favorites. Since LITB, FKB, Patty Duke, and That Girl (among others) were important to me I'm happy. Since a couple of series important to you like Ironside have been stalled out, you aren't happy. I think it's that simple. On the flip side, since a couple of your grail shows have begun being released by WBA you are happy with them. Since nothing I'm really interested in has been released by them, I'm not going to sing their praises. Isn't this really what's at the bottom of our likes and dislikes when it comes to any of the studios and companies? Seems to me that's usually the bottom line.



Gary "still hoping everyone gets the shows they want from all the different studios and companies" O.

 

[Jack P]

Gary, your mention of "Bill Cosby Show" is something that happens to prove my cynical view of Shout. That one took years to complete following a cancellation notice of S2 that had been scheduled and we had to finally get it through the Select program, which started out with a lot of fanfare as the second chance outlet but which this year has dribbled to a halt as far as living up to its promise. I've had my share of completed titles from Shout as well, especially "Dragnet" so the bottom line isn't just a case of how they've handled favorites. I also was not happy with the foul-up on the encoding of S7 of All In The Family which was the kind of goof they should have spotted before they released it. Ultimately, I think the reason why I am more prone to be critical of them is that I see such a high volume of posts from people on the order of, "I hope Shout releases this......Why don't they let Shout release this......" as if that label has been a model of perfection in what they've done, and I think it's led to a case where the things they've done that IMO are just as bad as what CBS/Paramount or other big studios have done with their releases somehow tend to get minimized. I've gotten a lot of great stuff from CBS/Paramount but I'm certainly not going to hold back blasting them for what they did on the music issue with Fugitive and more importantly, Odd Couple which was absolutely ruined by the for it's final two seasons, and we'd both agree we'd never trust them so wholly even with the good they've done. In Shout's case, I just think I'm treating them no differently than I would anyone else with the same track record.

 

[Gary OS]

I can respect that point, Jack. There's no doubt that Shout has blown it on more than one occasion. As has CBS/P and pretty much every other studio. Whether it be abandoning series, music subs, edits, poor quality prints, high price points, or something else, no company is perfect. When it comes to people here calling for Shout, in particular, to release such and such a series I just take it for what it is. There are only a few options when it comes to indies, and Shout is probably the most well known so people mention them a lot. I think that's the main reason for it.



Gary "truth be known, I don't have full faith in any of the studios to do a job exactly right" O.

 

[Professor Echo]

Gary "truth be known, I don't have full faith in any of the studios to do a job exactly right" O.

Ah now you are getting to the point I have been trying to make in these forums for years. Sing unconditional and unqualified praises for individual jobs done right , but not necessarily the companies behind them.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Echo



Gary "in all seriousness, I wish the WBA would release something I could get excited about" O.

 

[Neil Brock]

Maybe I'm forgetting something but I'm pretty sure that MPI hasn't made any big errors in any of their releases. Also, although they only did a limited amount of stuff, S'more has a good record as well. The only blunder I remember them making was with the Lotsa Luck pilot and they quickly corrected it and sent out replacement discs.