Is "High Noon" the Greatest Western ever made? (1 Viewer)

[george kaplan]

This is America (OK, I know it's not limited to America, there I go pissing people off again ), where anger over free speech seems a lot more common than respect for free speech you disagree with.
Unpopular opinion #1: A western is any film that takes place in the old west. This includes the common drama and action/adventure that takes place in the old west, but also the comedy, musical, mystery or science fiction film that takes place in the old west.
Unpopular opinion #2: Very high regard for 60s westerns over 50s and 40s westerns.
With a few exceptions (High Noon, My Darling Clementine, Unforgiven), my favorite westerns (traditional) come from the 1960s (not necessarily in order):
The Magnificent Seven
The Good, the Bad & the Ugly
Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid
A Fistful of Dollars
For a Few Dollars More
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

 

[Dome Vongvises]

No fans of Shane?

Not me. The movie would've been saved if that kid wasn't so annoying and if Shane quit pandering to him.

 

[Todd Terwilliger]

Dome,
I agree about that kid. The first time I saw it, I so hoped Shane would turn around and shoot him.
I'm a big fan of Silverado. I wouldn't call it one of the best westerns made ever but I thought I'd throw it some love.

 

[TonyD]

didnt the story within a story with HIGH NOON have something to do with it being a commentary on the blacklisting that was going on in hollywood?

if anyone knows this i would love to hear more details about it.

 

[Steve Christou]

The western feel for both films just wasn't right enough for me to consider them as being the best of that genre.

Ironic considering you picked High Noon as the greatest western ever made Robert. It's one of the gloomiest, humorless westerns ever, the anti-thesis of the traditional western. Will Kane asks his friends for help, no one is willing to help, he is on his own against the baddies, only his young bride comes to help him at the end, no wonder John Wayne hated it.
What is unique about High Noon though, that no one has mentioned is, along with the clock motif, the film if I recall correctly is running in real time, the only western to do that I think.
Now I'm trying to remember another film where all the events were happening in real time, an old movie, no I've forgotten.

 

[David Lawson]

That would be Hitchcock's Rope, Mr. Christou.

 

[Walter Kittel]

I do not know which film ran in 'real time' first, but...
- Alfred Hitchcock's Rope ( 1948 ) ran in real time. I can't recall if this was true for the duration of the film, or not.
- Certainly Robert Wise's The Set-Up ( 1949 ) ran completely in real time.
Obviously, both films pre-date 1952's High Noon.
High Noon has its merits, but I've always felt that its character development ( outside of Cooper's strong performance ) was lacking. The film's use of real time helped it build suspense, but limited the viewer's ability to get to know the town and its populace. It's claustrophobic setting seems to me to be the antithesis of what Westerns are all about. The film almost feels like a noir in some ways, a combination that doesn't really work for me.
I prefer those Westerns, with a few exceptions, that deal with a larger story, or work on a broader canvas. For me, Once Upon A Time In The West is such a film, and is my favorite all time Western; with The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly running a close second.
- Walter.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Spoiler Alert for those that never seen "High Noon"
What's really ironic is that I think "High Noon" has the correct feel as to what a western film should be about when it comes to the life and times of a law enforcement officer back in those days when a town marshal was basically on his own. The film was actually ahead of it's time which gave High Noon the opportunity to influence the western genre like no other film has since it was filmed in 1951.
The filmmakers of this film Stanley Kramer, Fred Zinnermann, Carl Foreman, and Floyd Crosby knew exactly what they were doing in creating this ground-breaking western. Though, I've seen this film several times growing up, it wasn't until years later that I appreciated the look of the film and how it was photographed. At that time, I also realized the importance of the ballard "Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling". The film opening with that ballard along with it being played throughout the running of the film really helped established and reinforced Will Kane's conviction that he was doing the right thing by staying to face Frank Miller. It was almost like Tex Ritter was whispering words of encouragement into Will Kane's ears, whenever, self-doubt crept into his mind on whether staying to face his enemy was the best course of action. Another thing that stood out about this film was the acting performances of not only Gary Cooper, but every supporting player in the cast. This film was just about perfectly cast and acted as any film I've ever seen. The acting performances of all the townspeople were dead on in capturing all of their emotions and their lack of motivation in helping Will Kane.
It's also quite ironic that the only two people in the film that really understood why Kane stayed were his former lover Helen Ramirez and at the end, his newly married bride Amy. Will Kane was far from being a perfect man, however, he was a decent one, who like any other man was scare to die, but his duty to do the right thing helped him overcome that fear.
Yup, these filmmakers knew exactly what they were doing in producing a film that was groundbreaking, thought-provoking, tense and very taut in only 84 minutes of running time, photographed in highly contrasted black and white with a shooting schedule of only 28 days and a measly budget even in those days of $730,000
Crawdaddy

 

[Robert Crawford]

Walter,
I understand your comments, but when the events of the film happened in only 84 minutes and in the same location, it's kind of difficult not to be somewhat claustrophobic in its setting.

Another reason why I don't think either of those films are the best of the western genre. They're good, but the story line is a little too spread out for me.

Crawdaddy

 

[Steve Christou]

And unless I'm mistaken its the only famous western where the hero doesn't ride a horse, how can you have a cowboy film where our hero just walks all thru the film?
Robert I really do love this film, but you see my point about it not being a 'traditional western movie', and I can see that is what you probably love about it, I respect that.
Oh yeah Rope, Hitchcock's classic experimental movie, all in real time, how could I forgot.
Wasn't there a 90's film with Johnny Depp that was I think all happening in real time?

 

[Robert Crawford]

Steve,
I guess what I am saying is that High Noon should be what a traditional western should look like just like Unforgiven was 40 years later. Also, Cooper did ride a horse in the film, but there wasn't a lot of violence in the film until an hour into it's 84 minutes playing time.

 

[Steve Christou]

Ooooh Unforgiven, an incredible western, prob the best western of the last 30 years or so, um hang on Robert that's not a 'traditional western movie' either, oi!!
Hmmmm Let me think of the definitive 'traditional western' [thinking]
I got it! I got it! Stagecoach!!! Woohoo!!!
1.John Wayne 2.Horses 3.Indians 4.Yakima Canutt 5.Monument Valley 6.Showdown.

 

[Brad Vautrinot]

Robert, I have to agree with you and I consider High Noon as probably the greatest Western ever made. It is a thought-provoking, message film focusing on duty, decency, and honor - something in scarce supply these days, it seems.
Steve - historically, most lawmen in these old west towns were not liked at all by the citizens and in many cases were as bad as or worse than the lawbreakers. They were a necessary evil to keep some semblance of law and order in a frontier setting. That most people wouldn't help them does not surprise me in the least. Even the lovable and harmless Andy Devine from Liberty Valance was ridiculed for his cowardice, gluttony, and freeloading.
Some other great Westerns to me are, in no special order:
Shane
The Unforgiven
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
The Searchers
The Magnificent Seven
Red River
She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
Tombstone
I didn't like Once Upon A Time In The West at all. Chuck Bronson's insipid harmonica tune drove me nuts and I found the whole movie lacked substance. Henry Fonda did prove he could play a nasty, believable villian.
I have Rio Bravo and find it ok but I like the re-make, El Dorado a hundred times better. Ricky Nelson was totally miscast and laughable here and although James Caan only did marginally better, he did do better. Arthur Hunnicutt and Robert Mitchum also added much more to the original story.
Silverado was a Western that I like and I have to give kudos to Lawrence Kasdan and Columbia for bringing back and spurring (no pun intended) decent Westerns to be made after a long dry spell.
_________________________
"Very well, I accept. A man may fight for many things: his country, his principles, his friends, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally I'd mud wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a sack of French porn. You're on."
Black III, Episode.VI

 

[Robert Crawford]

Speaking of "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence" what would become of that town, if Tom Doniphon wasn't around? In a way that town could have ended up like the town in "High Noon" because Ransom Stoddard was no match for Liberty Valence not in those somewhat lawless days. Same can be said about "Shane".





Crawdaddy

 

[Neil Joseph]

I have not seen High Noon in so long that I can't really remember it too well. As westerns go, For A Few Dollars More is at the top of my list.

 

[teapot2001]

Wasn't there a 90's film with Johnny Depp that was I think all happening in real time?

Nick of Time

~T

 

[Walter Kittel]

I didn't like Once Upon A Time In The West at all. Chuck Bronson's insipid harmonica tune drove me nuts and I found the whole movie lacked substance. Henry Fonda did prove he could play a nasty, believable villian.

Lacked substance???!!!
While the foreground story is a traditional revenge melodrama, what makes Once Upon A Time In The West a great film ( aside from Leone's inspired style ) is the theme of the transference of power from the individual to the corporation as the Old West fades away and the inherent struggle that accompanies such a paradigm shift.
It is this theme that gives the film its resonance. The players in the foreground are symbolic of the larger issues at hand. The Railroad baron and Henry Fonda ( as his proxy ) represent the power of money, and the ability of the corporation to influence society, particularly from an economic standpoint. Bronson's Harmonica represents the power of the individual, and the old West.
The entire film deals with this transference, no where more obviously than when Frank comments upon the power of money vs. the gun when he sets behind the baron's desk.
I could go on, but I don't wish to derail the thread any further.
Robert - It is ( obviously ) simply a matter of personal preference. I tend to favor Westerns that are, at least partially, set in the wide open spaces. Those types of films simply seem more 'Western'. It is no coincidence that my favorite A.R. for Westerns happens to be 2.35:1
- Walter.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Hmmm, well I'm a big fan of High Noon, but I can't quite put it at the top.
My list goes:
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
Unforgiven
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
High Noon
The Searchers
High Plains Drifter
Dances With Wolves (hey, you wanted Indians )
GBU is there not because of any "cool" factor as I moved past that many many viewings ago. Instead I love 2 aspects. One is the humanity in the characters, especially from Tuco. We don't expect that from him yet he is the most human of the three. He is the closest to someone we can identify with despite the fact that he is not the hero. The other 2 are more like superhumans, aloof and beyond Tuco.
You could even go as far as to see a parallel between God (Old Testiment style) vs Satan with humanity caught in between. In the end God defeats Satan and sort of saves humanity, yet still humbles and dominates them perhaps because of their flaws (like greed). I'm not saying this was Leone's goal, but that sort of dynamic is in the film.
Along the way is sorrow and regret, as well as RESPECT for the characters. They go well beyond just being tools for the narrative.
The second thing about the film that I love is Leone's surrealist style. The scenes aren't quite real, they are like a reality being dreamed. 2 building towns, bizarre battles over a bridge and Union forces covered in dust riding out of the desert. Of course the score only enhances that feeling that something is just out of sorts the entire time.
To me GBU paints the Old West/Civil War with the same style that Apocolypse Now paints Vietnam.
In fact I think you can look at my top 6 and see how each of them very clearly portrayed the Old West in a non-traditional way. The other Leone films rank high for me as well because of this, BUT I also can really enjoy something like Rio Bravo (Wayne was the greatest).
Mag Seven doesn't rank really high for me (though I do enjoy it) simply because it struggles to compare well with Seven Sam. In that way Fistful of Dollars is much more impressive in standing up to Kurosawa's vision.

 

[Todd Terwilliger]

Does Outlaw Josey Wales count as a Western?

 

[Robert Crawford]

Why shouldn't it?




Crawdaddy