In the market for a 4k projector (1 Viewer)

[Greg.K]

Gregg convinced me that I needed a JVC RS-2000 aka DLA-NX7. I know it is going to be awesome. Thank you to everyone for the information you shared in here.

I think I’d hold out for the NZ7. No bulbs to change.

 

[Gregg Loewen]

I think I’d hold out for the NZ7. No bulbs to change.

its about 2xs the price, that is a lot of bulbs.!

 

[Greg.K]

Street price of NX7 is down to 5K or so? That would change the equation a bit.

 

[GregoryP]

I was looking into whether I should pair the JVC NX-7 with a Panasonic 4k player. I read somewhere that newer firmware updates to the NX-7 mean that the Panasonic 4k player optimizer is no longer used?

 

[Sam Posten]

Street price of NX7 is down to 5K or so? That would change the equation a bit.

There are no more street prices. The fucking mafia consumer electronics brands are now requiring MSRP on everything industry wide because its the only way B&M vendors can stay in business.

 

[DaveF]

There are no more street prices. The fucking mafia consumer electronics brands are now requiring MSRP on everything industry wide because its the only way B&M vendors can stay in business.

I noted this in another thread, but actual price is more than double, almost 2.5x in pricing I got then and now, in just three years from NX7 to NZ8.

The real effect is I’ve pushed my 4K upgrade another year probably.

 

[Robert_Zohn]

I was looking into whether I should pair the JVC NX-7 with a Panasonic 4k player. I read somewhere that newer firmware updates to the NX-7 mean that the Panasonic 4k player optimizer is no longer used?

You would still want to have one of Panasonic's Blu-ray players that supports their priority "HDR Optimizer". Panasonic's HDR Optimizer will reformat the content's HDR EOTF OPQ Curve to more closely match JVC's NX7's peak luminance.

Panasonic's flagship UB9000P1k has a second HDR Optimizer mode so you have two projector HDR Optimizer modes to choose from. The UB820 has one projector luminance mode.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I noted this in another thread, but actual price is more than double, almost 2.5x in pricing I got then and now, in just three years from NX7 to NZ8.

The real effect is I’ve pushed my 4K upgrade another year probably.

Curious why you always seem to compare the NZ8 to NX7 when making such consideration.

I understand some suspect the NZ7 might yield slightly lower quality results than NX7, but don't think I've actually seen anything to confirm that it's inferior enough to warrant thinking NZ8 is the true successor (w/ modest incremental improvements beyond not needing bulb replacements) to the NX7 though.

@Gregg Loewen certainly didn't suggest/imply any such thing earlier for instance...

IF I were still shopping now, I'd probably jump for the NX7 too if it can really be had for ~$5K... but I already bought an Epson 5050UB pretty much exactly 1 year ago and am still happy (enough) w/ it, especially given the room/space limitations I now have that probably wouldn't allow that much gains w/ the higher end PJs...

_Man_

 

[DaveF]

Curious why you always seem to compare the NZ8 to NX7 when making such consideration.

JVC has a three projector line-up. I’m comparing mid-model to mid-model. Which is NX7 to NZ8.

Also, stated native contrast numbers for Z7=X5, Z8=X7, Z9=X9.

If they were “honest” these would be NZ5, NZ7, NZ9. I see the model-number inflation to 7,8,9 as marketing hand-waving to try and distract from the massive price increase across the three-model lineup.

 

[DaveF]

IF I were still shopping now, I'd probably jump for the NX7 too if it can really be had for ~$5K... but I already bought an Epson 5050UB pretty much exactly 1 year ago and am still happy (enough) w/ it, especially given the room/space limitations I now have that probably wouldn't allow that much gains w/ the higher end PJs...

_Man_

If the NX line didn’t have its super long sync times, I’d probably buy a used NX7. But those sync times are make them a “no thanks”.

I’m wondering if I should look more seriously at the Epson 6050. But I can’t muster any enthusiasm in paying $4000 for fauxK in 2022. And my impression is Epson’s HDR tone mapping is not very good and I’d have to fiddle with HDR settings in the middle of every single show or movie to get it right.

I keep coming back to wanting to buy the JVC NX / NZ line because by all accounts they’ve nailed it with their DTM and HDR “just works” for all sources.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

If the NX line didn’t have its super long sync times, I’d probably buy a used NX7. But those sync times are make them a “no thanks”.

I’m wondering if I should look more seriously at the Epson 6050. But I can’t muster any enthusiasm in paying $4000 for fauxK in 2022. And my impression is Epson’s HDR tone mapping is not very good and I’d have to fiddle with HDR settings in the middle of every single show or movie to get it right.

I keep coming back to wanting to buy the JVC NX / NZ line because by all accounts they’ve nailed it with their DTM and HDR “just works” for all sources.

Good point about the slow synching issue. That would be very annoying, especially for streaming usage me thinks.

IF you just want something to hold you over for a few years, I'd say definitely consider the Epson 5050 -- the 6050 is really only very marginally better AFAIK, but the 5050 can sometimes be had for just ~$2.5K on sale w/ whatever deals... and I actually only paid ~$2.4K shipped for mine. Save the $ toward your eventual last(?) 4K display purchase (whether PJ or not... and/or setup/calibration) instead -- that's what I figured myself.

I don't really find myself fiddling w/ the HDR much... but then again, my current situation/setup probably isn't as optimal as yours to get the most out of what PJs are capable w/ HDR.

I don't think faux-K is a real problem... especially as we age -- and if you keep putting off the upgrade (from HDR-less 1080p), your eyes aren't likely to improve by the time you commit...

_Man_

 

[DaveF]

Good point about the slow synching issue. That would be very annoying, especially for streaming usage me thinks.

IF you just want something to hold you over for a few years, I'd say definitely consider the Epson 5050 -- the 6050 is really only very marginally better AFAIK, but the 5050 can sometimes be had for just ~$2.5K on sale w/ whatever deals... and I actually only paid ~$2.4K shipped for mine. Save the $ toward your eventual last(?) 4K display purchase (whether PJ or not... and/or setup/calibration) instead -- that's what I figured myself.

I don't really find myself fiddling w/ the HDR much... but then again, my current situation/setup probably isn't as optimal as yours to get the most out of what PJs are capable w/ HDR.

I don't think faux-K is a real problem... especially as we age -- and if you keep putting off the upgrade (from HDR-less 1080p), your eyes aren't likely to improve by the time you commit...

_Man_

I’d get the 6050 because I “need” a black device. I’m not buying a white projector like the 5050.

If the 6050 were $2500, what I paid for my Sony 40ES in 2016, I think I’d buy, and do an interim 4K upgrade. But at $4000, I’m waiting to see what evolves this year with new projectors and pricing on the JVC options, and even maybe the upcoming JVC NZ5 that might be a fair compromise for a lamp projector.

If I could get an in person demo comparing the Epson 6050 to the JVC NX7 to the JVC NZ7 to the NZ8, that could completely change my view on these things. But that’s nigh-impossible*.

(* There’s a demo party in two weeks in Missouri where they’re going to compare a bunch of projectors. It’s exactly what I want. But setting aside my schedule not allowing, in January of 2022 with the largest pandemic surge of two years, I’m not presently choosing to spend a day indoors unmasked with a crowd of strangers of unknown vaccination status. But I’m really looking forward to reading observations from those that attend.)

 

[Greg.K]

JVC has a three projector line-up. I’m comparing mid-model to mid-model. Which is NX7 to NZ8.

Also, stated native contrast numbers for Z7=X5, Z8=X7, Z9=X9.

If they were “honest” these would be NZ5, NZ7, NZ9. I see the model-number inflation to 7,8,9 as marketing hand-waving to try and distract from the massive price increase across the three-model lineup.

Except they still have the NX5 in their lineup.

 

[DaveF]

Prior gen: NX5, 7, 9
New gen: NZ7, 8, 9

I’m comparing middle models across product generations. I think this is how people normally compare products.

 

[GregoryP]

You would still want to have one of Panasonic's Blu-ray players that supports their priority "HDR Optimizer". Panasonic's HDR Optimizer will reformat the content's HDR EOTF OPQ Curve to more closely match JVC's NX7's peak luminance.

Panasonic's flagship UB9000P1k has a second HDR Optimizer mode so you have two projector HDR Optimizer modes to choose from. The UB820 has one projector luminance mode.

Thank you, Robert! I just bought the UB820 to pair with my NX-7.

 

[DaveF]

I decided to measure the contrast ratio of my Sony VW-HW40ES HD projector. I bought a cheap light meter. (Actually the prior model of this one because I wasn’t paying attention. But for anyone might to do the, I’d now buy the newer one.)
See on Amazon

Subsequent to buying my projector in 2016, I learned there’s reason to believe the Sony SXRD devices, such as this projector, have a known by unacknowledged-by-Sony contrast degradation problem. As I’m trying to decide what 4K projector to buy, and swimming in myriad contrast ratios as key tech specs, I thought it would be helpful to know what I’m experiencing right now in my theater for reference and guidance in my buying decision.

I did a quick, first-time measurement this morning:

Sony VPL-HW40ES
On/Off CR: 765:1
On: 40,800 Lux
Off: 53.3 Lux

Projector on whatever settings I have it on. Not 4K and no Iris so no dynamic dimming to my knowledge.
Bought new in 2016, ~3000 hrs use
Brand new lamp put in a month ago (third party from Jaspertronics)

Brand new, I believe the projector was reported to have contrast ratio of about 5000:1. This indicates my unit has suffered the significant degradation problem supposedly afflicting Sony’s SXRD projectors.

This really pushes me away from the new Sony projectors.

This brings the Epson LS12000 back into consideration. I assumed I was currently seeing 5000:1 CR. But I’m at ~800:1. And a new LS12k, even at the bottom of contrast performers, would still be 5x to 6x better than what I’m currently used to.

Photos attached to illustrate my particulars. Apologies for sideways photos: Forums upload iPhone photos with wrong rotation.

With room lights on “TV”, which is comfortable for both watching TV and also reading an iPad, meter reads only 2 lux. With “Movie” mode on which has a very dim but not full-off room bias lighting, meter reads 0.

Meter about 12” from projector and close to centered.
I used this video made by another enthusiast specifically to help folks like me do as basic contrast measurement.



I used the Hold function on the meter to bring the lights up and get a photo of the Dark reading.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Not sure how useful your little experiment/testing really is, especially if you're inexperienced and this is essentially your first time trying this and probably have no reliable base line to compare (from when the PJ was new w/out the potential SXRD chip degradation that concerns you) -- comparing to whatever best case, full on/off contrast ratio spec would likely not be realistic and might easily be off by an order of magnitude (or more), especially since your test environment (ie. your room and setup) doesn't look at all like best case.

You've probably already come across this article (or very similar), but just in case not, might be useful reading (to help w/ the caveats)...

Ignore Misleading Contrast Specs

Contrast specs are worthless. Here are several good reasons to ignore them.

www.projectorcentral.com

For one, based on my preliminary reading of that article, a 800:1 full on/off contrast result measured in your less-than-pro testing doesn't seem bad at all -- the expensive, commercial grade, Christie DLP PJ mentioned only rates at 1200:1, which is less than 2x as high despite (no doubt) best case testing.

Also, since the concern is degradation of your SXRD chip, I'm not sure full on/off contrast matters as much as ANSI contrast (discussed in the article)... though I guess you already read up on how useful full on/off might be for this purpose.

Sorry to put a damper on this little DIY project...

_Man_

 

[John Dirk]

Thanks @DaveF ! I've been wondering when you'd get around to addressing this as we've discussed the alleged issues with Sony's SXRD panels in another thread and I know you currently own a Sony projector.

I tend to agree with @ManW_TheUncool concerning the results, though I'd love to hear @Gregg Loewen 's take.

 

[DaveF]

For reference: original review on Sony 40ES puts on/off contrast ratio at ~5000:1

Sony VPL-HW40ES Review: Video Projector Awesomeness

The new Sony VPL-HW40ES is a front projector with the right price, the right specs, the right lineage, but some really excellent competition. Here’s our full review.

www.forbes.com

 

[DaveF]

Not sure how useful your little experiment/testing really is, especially if you're inexperienced and this is essentially your first time trying this and probably have no reliable base line to compare (from when the PJ was new w/out the potential SXRD chip degradation that concerns you) -- comparing to whatever best case, full on/off contrast ratio spec would likely not be realistic and might easily be off by an order of magnitude (or more), especially since your test environment (ie. your room and setup) doesn't look at all like best case.

You've probably already come across this article (or very similar), but just in case not, might be useful reading (to help w/ the caveats)...

Ignore Misleading Contrast Specs

Contrast specs are worthless. Here are several good reasons to ignore them.

www.projectorcentral.com

For one, based on my preliminary reading of that article, a 800:1 full on/off contrast result measured in your less-than-pro testing doesn't seem bad at all -- the expensive, commercial grade, Christie DLP PJ mentioned only rates at 1200:1, which is less than 2x as high despite (no doubt) best case testing.

Also, since the concern is degradation of your SXRD chip, I'm not sure full on/off contrast matters as much as ANSI contrast (discussed in the article)... though I guess you already read up on how useful full on/off might be for this purpose.

Sorry to put a damper on this little DIY project...

_Man_

It’s very useful. I’m looking at simple on/off contrast ratio. For my Sony that should be 5000:1. I measured 800:1. And the degradation has been reported and measured to affect on/off contrast ratio for 7+ years.

My projector has degraded. Assuming my projector wasn’t garbage and I should have returned it when I bought it and assuming I did these trivial measurements correctly. I think I did. I’ll explore more carefully when I next have a weekend free.


As for that article: the concepts are all sound, I think. But, maybe because it’s 5+ years old, his numbers all seem outdated?

An on/off CR of 800:1 is below entry level these days. In round numbers from memory, current projectors have these on/off CR (and not dynamic) :

Epson LS11000 - 3000:1
Epson LS12000 - 5000:1
Sony XW5000 - 8,000:1
JVC NP5 - 20,000:1
NVC NZ9 - 50,000:1

Also regarding the article: DLP is known (from my recent reading) to be a low contrast performer with CR in the realm of 1000:1. People are getting excited about recent UST DLP projectors starting to get into the 3000:1 or 4000:1 and up CR ratios.

When I read about current, high-end, $100,000 projectors, they have true on/off contrast ratios of millions to 1. Here’s a current ultra-lux Christie with 25,000,000:1 on/off CR

Christie Eclipse Projector - World’s Best Home Theater...

www.avsforum.com