HTF Challenge: Best Picture Winners (1 Viewer)

[Dome Vongvises]

I'm not going to listen to that guy. It's funny to refer to yourself in the third person, but it got tiring and egotistical after awhile.

 

[Lew Crippen]

Thanks for the link Walter—I found the review very interesting. However, the reviewer has a polemic of his own that in a few instances results in what I consider truly missing the point. One of the points being that many of the characters (such as the wife) are one-dimensional by design and are not intended by the filmmaker to do anything other than represent the extremes of a type.

It is usual in satire that such characters are presented, for the more complete ones to react against. Were I responding to Mr. Erickson, I would request that he reread a bit of Jonathon Swift and rethink his criticism from this perspective.

It is certainly reasonable that he (or anyone) believe that the movie does not make its points effectively, but it is not reasonable to criticize satire when it is operating within its construct (satire qua satire, as it were).

I was not living in the States when this film was released and did not see it on its original run. And I was also not aware of reviews that either praised or dammed its position, so I went into this unprepared, other than from the name and the DVD cover.

And I was pleasantly pleased and surprised—so much so that I decided to myself that either the Academy as a whole was much more aware than I thought or that the majority missed the point completely. Given that Gladiator won the next year, I tend to believe the latter.

 

[Walter Kittel]

I'm not going to listen to that guy. It's funny to refer to yourself in the third person, but it got tiring and egotistical after awhile.

Dome - Okay, to each their own. That happens to be Erickson's writing style and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. While I don't always agree with his opinion, his columns and those of Stuart Galbraith are amongst my favorite film-centric writing on the web.

Lew - Interesting response to the criticism of one dimensional characterizations. Viewed from a purely intellectual standpoint of film analysis that seems valid. In terms of emotional resonance ( something that I seem to value more and more these days ) I was let down by some of the stereotyping in the film, as I found it difficult to relate to some of the characters and identify with them.

I enjoyed my theatrical viewing of American Beauty mostly on the strength of Spacey's performance and Conrad Hall's cinematography. However on subsequent viewings I found myself let down by the film and agree with Erickson that the film is intellectually dishonest, esp. in terms of the resolution of the plot thread involving Angela and Lester. ( While I'm not advocating that this type of relationship is desirable or permissible, I felt that the film's resolution of this plot thread was arbitrary, rushed, and completely false. Gomer Pyle 'surprise, surprise, surprise' indeed! )

- Walter.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Walter, he makes some very good analysis points concerning American Beauty, but I felt his tone to be pretentious and condescending.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Titanic
Directed by James Cameron

Overall Score: B

In my opinion, this isn't a bad movie. I thought it was a good teenage love story drama.

It doesn't surprise me that it made so much money. Timing has to do with everything. Leonardo DiCaprio was the big star, it had broad appeal, it was a solid movie, and the teenage girls of that day and age just clicked with it.

Personally, I would've gone for L.A. Confidential (I liked it better) or Good Will Hunting to a much lesser extent. But I'm not surprised it won Best Picture, and I don't mean that in a sarcastic, snide sort of way either. It connected with a lot of people, and it was an enjoyable film. As you can tell, I'm not entirely fond of elitist conventions and the need to seperate people based on criteria. I'll eat with one spoon, a fork, a knife, and a pair of chopsticks thank you very much.

As an aside, I think it's funny when people criticize films with words like "lowest common-denominator" and manipulative without thinking of the implication of those words. LCD has the word common in it. If there is even a small contingent of people out there that do not like it, how can it be in common with them? Personally, I find there's too much of a negative connotation with the word lowest, and the negative connotation of LCD is an insult to mathematics.

And manipulative? Last I check if the camera is directing our attention to something, then it's manipulating what the audience sees. It's no more obvious than a cued musical score.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Nominees

As Good As It Gets - B+
- I thought it was pretty funny, but I like Jack Nicholson in this very much. But personally, he really didn't wow me with the character so much as the script was just excellent and the character was a spectacle to watch. It's just Jack being Jack.

The Fully Monty - abstain

Good Will Hunting - B+
- Another solid film, and one I like quite a bit. But it does have its nits to pick. Fortunately, I'm not a mathematician.

L.A. Confidential - A
- I love movies of this sort, and it really reminds me of older noir films like The Maltese Falcon or Double Indemnity. I'd almost call it Hollywood noir.

 

[george kaplan]

L.A. Confidential was clearly the best movie that year (IMO).

Well, from a teenage pov, I agree with that 100%. Or more accurately from a female teenage pov. However, for myself, not being a female teenager, nor sharing their sensibilities, IMO, the movie was the worst Best Picture winner since Cimarron. Or at least since All About Eve.

 

[Walter Kittel]

Actually the best film of 1997 wasn't nominated...

Atom Egoyan's The Sweet Hereafter.

I admire Titanic's technical accomplishments and Cameron's ability to manage a project of the size of this film. But unfortunately I also feel that it is one of the weakest of Cameron's films. Rose ( as portrayed by Kate Winslett ) was another in a long line of strong female characters in the films of Cameron. I was pleased with her performance and that of Leonardo DiCaprio and the overall production design of the film.

On the other hand, Billy Zane's entirely one dimensional Snidely Whiplash and some awful dialog ( Titanic did not receive an Academy Award nomination for screenplay ) really knocked the film down and undermined my overall level of enjoyment. Also the throw away moments in the film to establish Rose as a 'modern' woman felt contrived ( such as the Picasso sequence ) and served to pull me out of the film.

Salon had a '20 things wrong with a film that earns a billion dollars' article that addressed some of the faults in Titanic. Wish I could find a link.

Not a terrible film by any means, but far from perfect.

Some of the films from 1997 that I prefer to Titanic ( roughly in order ) include:

The Sweet Hereafter
Eve's Bayou
L.A. Confidential
Boogie Nights
Jackie Brown
Gattaca
The Game
Contact
Kundun
Taste of Cherry


- Walter.

 

[SteveGon]

I agree with Walter: The Sweet Hereafter should have won. But it didn't.

I don't hate Titanic, in fact I think it's a good picture, solid, well-made, and entertaining.

L.A. Confidential: good modern noir, though I wish the ending had been darker.

The Full Monty: entertaining, but light and forgettable.

Good Will Hunting: good, if bland and forgettable.

As Good As It Gets: greatly overrated, but still a decent movie.

I can live with Titanic winning though I would have picked The Sweet Hereafter and some of the movies Walter mentioned (Contact, Jackie Brown, and Boogie Nights) over it. I also liked Gattaca and Eve's Bayou, but they never stood a chance.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

I need to check out The Sweet Hereafter. As a matter of fact, I may do that tomorrow.

About more than five years ago, I that movie and Breaking the Waves confused. They have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Don't ask me why.

BTW, TSH it's the one with the bus accident, right?

 

[SteveGon]

That's correct. Atom Egoyan's best movie.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Funny, I thought it was the one with Mia Kirshner's boobies.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

The English Patient
Directed by Anthony Minghella

Overall Score: B+/A-

Movies about love affairs work for me. Movies about affairs.....are a rather strange matter. I don't approve of marriage infidelity, but that's just me I guess. I have idealized views concerning marriage, but I've also always been accused of being too idealistic and not realistic enough.

But they happen nonetheless. Sort of like the way it happens in Brief Encounter or Terms of Endearment. Circumstances are different but the passion and longing remain the same. So with that, I can watch films with affairs in them and accept the context in which they happen. Can't accept them in real life though.

A love affair drives The English Patient I guess. For those who don't know, it's the movie Elaine hates. A burnt man recounts the tale of an affair he has with the wife (Kristin Scott Thomas) of a financier/mapmaker? The tale is recounted to Hana (Juliette Binoche), who has a love affair of her own.

This film is a perfect illustration of the kind of movies I really like. Epic films that give time to build their characters and story. I wouldn't call it slow, but deliberate in its pacing. It moved along very fine.

It's really strange because there are always films that do almost the same thing, and I can't fucking stand them. Personally, I think it's a coincidence that most of those films are the arthouse/foreign stuff. But that's my guess.

Anywho, TEP has a much stronger dramatic punch than Cold Mountain I thought. The passion and love was evident, but I almost never believed it for one second in CM. I guess it's the time we spend with the characters.

The one complaint I have about this film is that the screenplay/director did things to manipulate circumstances into his favor. Sort of like the way Kubrick did with Paths of Glory. War in and of itself is bad, but I thought he went too far by not only convicting "innocent" people, but also having the trial run by stupid people. It would've been much more effective an anti-war statement if the court had some competency.

But enough of that tangent. The point I was trying to make is that in most cases of affairs, you see a motivator, a circumstance which drives a woman or man to commit infidelity. Some cases, the spouse is an ass or the marriage is lacking excitement and passion. Whatever the excuse is, one exists.

It's fairly obvious Katherine and Count Lazlo have a passion for one another. It wasn't too clear though, as to what was wrong with the marriage in the first place. It really didn't need that as the affair works in its own way. But what I did have a problem with is the last-minute "husband is a psychopathic asshole" plane crash that somehow has to justify the whole affair. To me, it was jokey and another instance of playing a hand that shouldn't have been played.

But other than that, the film worked pretty well. I'll come off sounding pretty ignorant for saying this, but I thought the cinematography was.....pretty. It helped give TEP its epic feel, and the vastness lended some beauty to the love and passion between the two characters. I couldn't help but think about Lawrence of Arabia, and how it's such a beautiful standard to paint characters across a vast landscape or large events. But when I think thoughts like that, I think I'm nuts.

I pay attention to film pretty well, but I'm going to need some help on this one. I can't for the life of me figure out where in the hell the love affair between Hana and the Indian guy came from. I was like, "huh? That sure came out of left field". I don't recall any setup for it at all.

I was surprised to see Willem Dafoe and Jurgen Prochnow in this film. Not so surprised to see Jurgen play a German either.

Solid film-making, and I'd love to collect this, if and when it gets the special edition treatment.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Nominations

Fargo - A-
- Funny as hell, although I miss the subtext that gets so many film buffs all giddy over it. Good cinematography by Deakins. Made the north even more cold and desolate.

Jerry Maguire - A-
- I'm a sentimental fool, but I don't cry at movies. Almost did for Big Fish. Same thing happened here.

Secrets & Lies
- Never heard of this movie

Shine
- I need to see it.

Other nominees to talk about:

The Pianist - A-
- The thing about Roman Polanski films are that he's made several good ones, one that's okay, and a stinker. But they all share one quality in common, and that they just seem dry. The Pianist is the same way. I really wasn't sold on Adrian Brody's performance until the war started.

Gangs of New York
- I like Martin Scorsese, but it really goes to show that the amount of effort you put into something isn't proportional to the results. If I understand correctly, this film was a labor of love, and it was a good one at that. But you kind of expect better from a guy with an great track record.

 

[Walter Kittel]

Dome - Once you've viewed The Sweet Hereafter check out Shine. There are some fine performances in that film by Geoffrey Rush, Noah Taylor - for my money the best performance in the film, Armin Meuller-Stahl, and Lynn Redgrave amongst others. Really a nice character driven piece with an interesting story construction, some wonderful music, solid performances and some interesting cinematography. All in all a solid film.

On to The English Patient. First let me start by saying that I love nearly every single thing about this film. This is one of those films that routinely gets slammed on the HTF, and I just have to move along, telling myself that the folks who dismiss this film are entitled to their misguided opinions. ( Let me add, I viewed this film theatrically about 11 times over a 4 to 6 month period, and have probably viewed it at least another 20 times on LD. )

The reason why Katherine's marriage to Clifton did not work is alluded to when Clifton mentions to his colleague, while discussing presents for a 1st anniversary, that they were friends before becoming husband and wife. The impression was that Clifton pursued Katherine but that her love for Clifton was driven more by the manner of their previous relationship ( i.e. friendship ) vs. the passion that was ignited between her and Almasy.

Regarding Hanna and Kip's relationship. I agree that the film does not really establish the foundation for their attraction. I was left with the sense that it was more a matter of chemistry between the two of them and that their similar natures were at least part of the attraction.

From a structural standpoint, the relationship between Hanna and Kip acts as a counterpoint to the affair between Katherine and Almasy. The giving, supportive nature of Hanna and Kip is contrasted against the selfish, and self-centered nature of the relationship between Katherine and Almasy. ( For instance contrast Katherine and Hanna's feelings about sewing. )

I have the Criterion CAV LD of The English Patient and there are some nice extras including a commentary track, deleted scenes - some of them beautifully shot, and the ad campaign for the film ( off the top of my head. ) Looking forward to the SE DVD release as well.

I may post some more about The English Patient later.

Re: Fargo - I tend to agree. I like the film but it doesn't resonate with me to the same extent as it does with its most ardent proponents. Not sure why. ??

- Walter.

 

[SteveGon]

As with Dome and Walter, I love The English Patient.

For my money, this is the one recent BP Oscar winner that will hold up over the years.

...and I really can't add much more to what's already been said.

Besides, I've gotta run. I've got a movie date with Kissinger. Oh, baby!

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Besides, I've gotta run. I've got a movie date with Kissinger. Oh, baby!

That's so cute.

 

[Walter Kittel]

Oh yeah, one thing I forgot to add last night. At the conclusion of the film, I was always puzzled by the wistful expression on Hana's face while setting in the back of the truck. A friend and I theorized about what she was thinking, but with no certainty. Viewing the deleted scenes on the Criterion LD provided additional information that gave that scene context.

In case you don't want to wait for the SE -

If you recall Hana and Kip arrive at the church on his motorbike, prior to him hoisting her into the rafters to see the murals on the walls of the building. (BTW, one of the best sequences in the film.) The pine-lined path that the truck takes at the end of the film is the same path that they took to get to the church. One of the deleted scenes shows their trip into town on the motorbike along the road, amid the pines. I believe that in the final scene Hana is remembering the trip to the church, and it may also have been the first time she rode with Kip on the motorbike; although that is less certain.

- Walter.

 

[SteveGon]

I have a problem with that reason and only because of my personal beliefs. To me, a relationship such as a marriage should have a strong foundation in friendship. I'm not advocating friendship exclusively, but I really can't accept that is the reason for the failure of Katherine's marriage. But that's my argument at least. Your wife/husband/significant other should be your best friend. But if they were simply casual friends, I would understand why the marriage wouldn't work.

All I can say to that is love is a fickle thing. Some people are better off remaining friends, while some can successfully translate a friendship into marriage. Then again, some married people don't get along all at. And some people who previously didn't get along fall in love, get married, and are happy. This is all so confusing. Must be why I'm still single. :frowning:

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Braveheart
Directed by: Mel Gibson

Overall Score: A-

The only thing that keeps it from being an A+ is the historical inaccuracy. In my eyes, it's slightly forgivable that A. Mel Gibson openly admits to taking liberties, and B. people should never accept movies as history lessons.

That being said, it's the first film I've seen where the violence was depicted very graphically. It's a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde deal for myself. On one hand, it's shocking, and I'm simply abhorred by it all. On the other hand, I'm a gorehound.

So where does that leave us in between? A very interesting (though not compelling) drama that kept my attention the entire film. A very straight foward narrative, and the editing allows us to get from one scene to the next without an dilly dallying. The "epic" style cinematography works very well here. Acting is a sufficient.

Edit: Walter made some very good points as well.