HDTV and DVI: A Very Important Article (1 Viewer)

[Masood Ali]

It has a DVI input (so we are safe for whatever DVI related encryption that the MPAA is going to associate with HD-DVD), and RGB in and RGB out, a BNC RGBHV, a s-video, and two composite inputs (has two small speakers).

I guess I'm nitpicking, but FYI, your Sampo does not have an HDCP compatible DVI connection. Sampo used Samsung technology on that set, and while it may look amazing, that connector won't decode an HDCP signal.

Surprisingly, JVC is one of the first manufacturers to have DVI/HDCP connectors on their TVs, along with their ill-fated newly released HD cassette player. Dish network and DirectTV will be releasing their DVI/HDCP set-top boxes later this year too, around the time more TVs and projectors start sporting the connection.

 

[Masood Ali]

DVI - Digital Video Interface; it's a new transmission standard adopted by the MPAA, a host of studios, and many broadcast companies as the future of high definition. It has the bandwidth to send a fully digital (no analog conversion, as with our current component video connections) signal from a source to our TV. DVI is being paired with HDCP (hi-def content protection) which is a new encryption scheme designed to make copying hi-def content more difficult.

STB - Set Top Box; it's just a term for the recievers you get with any satellite or digital cable service. Right now, they decode the digital signal coming to your home and output it via an analog signal to your TV. In the future, they will transmit the digital signal encrypted through a DVI connector to your TV.

1394 - Also known as IEEE, or Firewire, its a high bandwidth digital connector now found on many digital video camcorders, digital cameras, and even some MP3 jukeboxes. It is being adopted as the new connector for A/V devices; so instead of an optical/coaxial connector from your DVD player to your reciever, you'll just have a Firewire connector. The high bandwidth will cut down on the need for multiple connections between devices; althought this connector will mostly be limited to audio/connectivity use, with DVI handling video signals.

 

[Matt Stryker]

Has anyone started a petition on this yet? I could easily start one over at http://www.petitiononline.com ; any thoughts on the exact wording?
I want it made clear to the studios that backing HDCP will simply lead to product failure due to lack of acceptance by early adopters.

 

[Byron Miller]

You really think the large market of people who already own HDTVs are going to be ignored?

I'm sure there would be some sort of class action lawsuit.

 

[Darrin_R]

TylerL(ooser)
Tell daddy that his plasma will not decode the encrypted signal. Mosoon was right, which made me very happy.
I dont think the manufactures are liable. Yes, they are marketed as HD ready but you can display a HD picture. When technology changes, does that mean we can hold the manufactures liable?
I think they would be fearful of what this is going to do to their sales. J6P is not buying their product and they have managed to piss off the A/V community.

 

[Francois Plouffe]

Let me first say that I too have bought an HDTV ready TV and I will really mad if all this encryption thing materialize.

I knew about HDCP before I toke the decison of buying an HDTV set. I bought it for what it can give me today (better DVD picture, progressive scan,..), not tomorrow, although I sure hope it will last a couple years.

But, technology go foward. We all buy computer and we all know that our 3000$ stuff won't handle new software in 2 years. I still don't accept it, but I have no choice but to live with that.

The bottom line is that our HDTV will always be HDTV compatible. I am not a lawyer, so I may be wrong (and I hope so), but I don't buy the class action law suite thing. Who can we sue? If HDCP never see the light of day but nobody ever broadcast or release HDTV material, who can we blame? Not the manufacturer, they are not responsible for the material to feed into our HDTV (I know, there is strong link between studios and manufacturer, especially Sony who own Columbia). They sold us HDTV set that will always be compatible with the HDTV format.

Can you sue Sony because you are not able to get Beta tape for your Beta vcr? Can you sue Sony for the lack of prerecorded DAT tape? Can you sue Goerge Lucas, Lucasfilm and all for not having release the Star Wars trilogy on DVD?

Can we sue the DVD consortium because when the HD-DVD will comes out, our DVD player won't play the new format?

I think the answer for all of the above is no (I said I think).

Suppose we sue them all and win, what if all of the studios decide not to release any HDTV content? They own the rights on their content, and they can do whatever they want with it. I know that the basis of their business is to sold us DVDs. But if they judge HDTV can compromise the revenue stream, they will choose to not go HDTV unless it is secure.

I know my arguments may be a bit simplistic, but I think we should try to understand why they would do this. It may also be too simplist, but I think the fault is in big part due to those who pirate copyrighted material and those who buy it.

That's all.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Threads merged to include GUS DONIS's report on DirecTV. Title edited to refer to DVI.

 

[Jagan Seshadri]

Matt Stryker and fellow HTF members,
I'm in support of the online petition. It would be a petition, not a class action suit; a chance to solidify and present our collective opinion on this situation.
Being primarily an audio enthusiast rather than a videophile, I will let someone more knowledgeable than me assist with the petition wording portion, as I am certain some others here can do it justice.
For those who have purchased a high definition television set, may I suggest writing a business letter to the manufacturer stating your concerns. If we have our petition online soon, that web link could even be mentioned in your letters so that the manufacturers will realize that ours are not individual complaints, but a collective protest.
What is proposed to happen with Digital HDTV is wrong, and we all know that. Why hold back, why be walked over by the MPAA when we can collectively voice our opinion on the matter?
Apathy is tantamount to consent here. I am in favor of the petition that Matt suggested. I hope you all are as well
-JNS

 

[Kelly Scott Rickards]

Yes Tyler, Mosoon is correct..
There are several projectors and display devices on the market that have DVI ins..
BUT (and this is a big but)
Only the JVC D'ILA RPTV (you know, like the crappy ones you can get at best buy ) has an HDCP compatible DVI connection
*ALL* other current display devices with DVI ins (and this includes your fathers plasma tv) *WILL NOT* be able to display an encrypted HDTV signal, hence the big uproar...
This being so (no encrypted HDTV for joo1),let me be the first one to say...
WELCOME TO OUR WORLD, TYLER

 

[Edwin-S]

...im all for big business and free market capitalism (with anti-trust regulation of course). I say...let the businesses do as they please.
------------------------------------------------------------
Wait until you go to work for one. Come back in ten years and tell me if you still believe this.

 

[DaveF]

Darrin_R,
1) I'm guessing you meant "loser", not "looser"
2) If so, note that personal insults / attacks are verboten (see #3)

 

[Matt Stryker]

Let me preface this by saying I'm a network engineer, not an orator or English teacher. Any suggestions welcome, either as a post or over email. I don't want to leave any loopholes, so it got kinda long
We the undersigned protest the adoption of the HDCP encryption standard as the de facto scheme for protecting high definition content for the following reason: it is NOT fully backward compatible with HDTV or HDTV-ready sets that have been sold from 1996-present that do not have the specified DVI/HDCP input. We, the undersigned, will not purchase technology or content based upon this encryption method until it allows the output of full resolution (1080i or 720p) signals to either a component (RGB+HV) or VGA (15-pin) connector.
In order for us to purchase forthcoming HDCP content and products, we require a moderately priced and widely available conversion solution to enable the above stated resolutions into the above stated cabling with no degradation of signal quality.
Most of the current (and future) purchasers of HDTVs and HD-ready TVs are early adopters. Most eventual purchasers of HDTV content will also be early adopters. We urge you not to implement an encryption scheme that will alienate and ultimately drive away loyal customers and valuable revenue.
Sincerly,
The undersigned
Let me know what you think, and I'll put it up tommorrow. Something needs to be added that says that if they can't get HDCP to do this, then they should go with something else, but I'm not sure how to word that. Maybe some more examples/figures on numbers of HDTVs purchased, numbers of STBs purchased (The Slate gives 2.5 million DTVs and 362,000 set top boxes in this article: http://slate.msn.com/?id=2062270)

 

[TylerL]

Ok....

so the TV doesn't have the decoding software/hardware (whatever one it is)...big deal.

Either:

1) the HD-DVD player will decode the picture first and then send it threw the DVI port

2) we'll just buy a digital decoder box to go between the HD-DVD player and our TV.

HAH!

now looks like im golden and all you "LOOOSERS" are out in the cold again...without a DVI i should mention.

You guys are honestly stupid if you believe that the MPAA would throw down the big change if almost all of the DVI-ready tv's couldn't support their fancy new protocol.

You guys are getting mixed up with the fact that even though i don't have the decoder built in...i "do" have a DVI connection...which is my ticket to HD content.

(i hate to be such a prick...but since everyone is now attacking me...screw you guys)

 

[Matt Stryker]

Anybody else starting to think this thread is turning into a Dilbert strip?
Guys, please just edit your personal attacking comments and keep it open.

 

[TylerL]

Also..i justed wanted to say...digital is the way to go.

Everyone here was so excited about buying an HDTV that they didn't even realize that all the connectors for there new TV were all analog!

Of course HDTV is going to be brought to us in the untainted digital form...for it is the best form.

Why bother down-grading it to an analog form?

Should have waited untill the TV's came out with some type of digital connector.

 

[Francois Plouffe]

TylerL,

I think you don't understand a thing about HDCP. Before insulting poeple, you should try to understand how it works.

The purpose of HDCP is to carry an encrypted digital signal all the way to the display device, and to be decrypted BY the display device. This way, it becomes almost impossible to grab the signal at the output of the HD-DVD player or HD set top box and start making copies of the HD signal.

If, like you pretend, manufacturers comes out with the a HD-DVD or some kind of device to decrypt the HDCP signal and send it through DVI, well, the whole purpose of HDCP is defeated, useless, and we would not be here talking about that. This ain't going to happens if HDCP should become the standard.

The problem is not having a DVI inpu or not, it's having a display device that can decypher the HDCP.

So, laugh now with your daddy and your non-HDCP DVI plasma, if HDCP becomes the standard, you will be screwed like everybody else.

Stop showing your ignorance and educate yourself before bashing poeple.

 

[Masood Ali]

I'll nitpick some more, since I got some time to spare.

You guys are getting mixed up with the fact that even though i don't have the decoder built in...i "do" have a DVI connection...which is my ticket to HD content.

Again, I suggest you actually read information on the new protocols before making any more claims, because they're too easy to disprove. A DVI port is not your ticket, or anybodys ticket, to HD content.
For some strange reason I see the purpose of your writing as simply to annoy a majority of the members on this board. It may be humorous to you to continue your argument without any facts to back them up, but please note that making unfounded claims on this forum simply degrade any respect or authority you may have.
This will be my last reply to your unfounded claims, unless by some miracle of God, you actually bring verifiable facts to back up your claims. On that note, I don't think you'll ever hear from me in this thread again

 

[TylerL]

This is what i forsee:

HD-DVD player's will decode the HD-DVD's that are purchesed (or rented of course) retail. The retail discs will have something physically done to them which HD-DVD players can recognize as being retail (ie proof of purchese).This way, sure someone can record the signal onto an DVD-R..but unless it has the physical changes to it...the HD-DVD player won't unscramble the signal. You can only make the physical changes via a machine that only HD-DVD producing companies will legaly have rights to own (thus making it illegal to own a machine (prison if you get caught with one) and the machine will cost in the hundred thousand doller range(making it hard for someone to buy it)).This way..people already with DVI won't have to worry if their DVI is compatible yet the HD-DVD can still be sent via untainted digital means.

Best of both worlds and makes the most sense. I think something to this effect will happen and those without DVI will still be screwed.

And the best part is...the few idiots that take out 5 loans to buy one of these machines to start black market HD-DVD sales will be so few in number that the police can just arrest them and not worry about it. They can distroy the illegaly bought machines too.

Done and done.

 

[Stephen_Dar]

I'm one of those "HD waiters," interested but looking for maybe another year or 2 to pass before I buy. Also, I'm not a lawyer. But, I think any petition requesting a reasonably priced fix to this issue wouldn't go far enough. I think there's a strong case that advertising a TV as "HD ready" when in fact it can't play true HD at all (as I understand it) can't be legal. Even if these TVs came with some kind of disclaimer that "we won't necessarily let you hook up to every kind of signal," that's not the point. The point would be what you could get a jury to accept as reasonable, and this case seems like it would be a slam dunk to me (any lawyers here?). Thus, I would expect some sort of absolutely free solution if it really turns out your HDTVs can't show HD content of any kind.

Anyway, here's hoping that the HD and otherwise fully digital world really starts rolling in the next couple of years. The economy could use that next big consumer level revolution to move some money around, and re-equiping even 40% of the houses in the US for HD and broadband internet 100 times faster than my fast DSL will add up to a chunk of pleasurably spent change

To the moderator: I thought people (who shall remain nameless) who repeatedly disrupt threads could be bounced from the forum?

 

[Masood Ali]

Tyler, I don't think you completely understood my points, so here's the scoop one more time: the MPAA said it doesn't want HD-DVD players to decode HDCP signals because then someone can hook up a recording device to the HD-DVD's DVI port and make a perfect decrypted digital copy of the source. Decrypting will ONLY be done at the display, so that no intermediate device can make such a copy.
BTW, here's some proof for your pudding (taken from the article):
"Unfortunately for consumers, the new encryption schemes mean that if you have purchased a display device before the fall of 2002, there is a 90% chance that you will not be able to watch digital HDTV media on your display. Unless your device has a DVI HDCP connector on it, you will be limited to a 480p analog signal (or a 480p digital signal if you have DVI DTCP connector) from digital sources, including HD-DVD, HD Satellite, and HD-Cable."
"Before you get mad at the salesman that sold you that $12,000 HDTV or $50,000 plasma, keep this in mind; the salesman probably didn’t know. The electronics industry kept this secret under wraps as long as they could. After all, who would buy a HDTV device if they knew it would be obsolete in less than 2 years? But, just because it has a DVI input doesn’t mean it supports HDCP, so check before you buy!"
Uh oh, did you check before your daddy bought it?
EDIT: BTW, I'm glad your continuing to rant without backing up your claims. It makes my work to discredit you much easier.