Deep Space Nine: For the Fans (1 Viewer)

[Sam Favate]

We just watched The Sound of Her Voice from the tail-end of season 6; not the greatest episode, but some nice Odo-Quark moments. My wife has already declared that she will be very sad when we finish the series, and she wants to know why - WHY! - there has not been a DS9 movie in the nearly 10 years since the show ended!

Personally, I think Vic is great and brings a lot to the show. You wouldn't think that placing those old songs in the context of a space station show 400 years in the future would work, but they do. Vic's a great character. Wish we'd seen more of him. Ezri becomes a great character too - I like how she becomes different from Jadzia, and insists on being her own person.

So, why has there been no follow-up to this show? It's a damn crime.

 

[Ockeghem]

Sam Favate:

So, why has there been no follow-up to this show? It's a damn crime.

Sam,

A very good question indeed. I've asked myself the same question many times over the years. There is so much that could be done--so many story lines left to develop, and so many adventures left to see on the screen. I don't know if any of TPTB care to revisit the series, however.

 

[Greg_S_H]

I don't think the public really knows the show at all. To do it right, they'd have to spend a lot of time getting people up to speed. A main thing to address would be the return of the captain.
I've had some ideas about a return that I think would be interesting. I'll spoilerize it so you aren't subjected to my amateur ideas if you don't wish to be.
I sure wish Brock Peters was still alive. I think it'd be cool to open with Bajorans on pilgrimage to Earth, and Joseph is both proud and bemused by it all as he serves them at his restaurant. He's a little surprised that Kira is one of the pilgrims--and she's a little embarrassed--but she is the one who discovers *something*--don't know what--that signals that Benjamin is still out there and retrievable. Maybe she'd be the one who could return him, and it would ultimately lead to internal conflict ("should I bring a god back down to earth") and external conflict between her and the Siskos and Kasidy ("yes, you should!").
I don't remember how things are left at the end, exactly, but I think we never got to see Bajor admitted into the Federation, right? Well, that would be the device to get all the old, familiar faces back to the station. It might be more realistic to have a mostly new crew, but I think everyone deserves a shot at being in the movie. Returning to take part in the ceremonies would make a lot of sense.
The ultimate outcome of the whole trilogy (heh) would be a cementation of the thawed relationship between the Federation and the Romulans. The movies would deal with some threat so big that they would have to help again, and it would be a lasting change for future shows/movies. I'd like to see the Breen at least be part of the threat.
Another big thing: the big-hearted planet of Bajor continues to be the primary source of material aid for the Cardassians after the destruction of their planet. They are, of course, torn by gratitude and anger that they have to now rely on those they once subjugated. I think Garak would be a moderating voice, but it would probably lead to some kind of major decision based on the conflict going on. It would be a mistake to completely mirror the Cardies joining the Dominion, though.
Finally, what do you think of this controversial idea? Jadzia Dax was there to help end the war. That's the way everybody on the station remembers it. There's some vague idea that that's not right, but their memories are what they are. Jadzia just knows she owes Captain Sisko her life, since he seemed to come out of nowhere to stop the Pah Wraith. After all, time means nothing to the Prophets, so why couldn't he do that? Once he returns, only he remembers both timelines clearly, and is a little guilty about making such a big change to it. He keeps tabs on Ezri's career to see how he affected her.
Anyway, those are my ideas. I thought about it a lot the last time I finished watching the series. Perhaps too much.

 

[Ockeghem]

Greg_S_H,
I love your ideas. May we discuss what you've put in the spoiler tag?

 

[Greg_S_H]

Sure, if you want. Thanks.

 

[Ockeghem]

Anyway, those are my ideas. I thought about it a lot the last time I finished watching the series. Perhaps too much.

Gary_S_H,
Agreed with regard to Brock Peters. Just having him in the series for the few times we saw him was a treat. I also like the idea of retrieving Capt. Sisko. I think Jake deserves to see his father again, and this would be quite a nice way of doing it (how you suggested).
Trilogy--LOL. But sure, why not? Bringing Bajor into the Federation would represent some meaningful closure IMO.
And Garak as a moderating voice would be quite interesting. But, I can actually see how this might be logical. You've got the Cardassians who have been loyal to the core since day one (I believe Garak fits into this category despite what Dukat might think of it), then you have those who sided with the Dominion, and then you have some that decided to switch sides. Since Garak was loved by neither of these sides, it makes sense to me that he would be able to carry that off. And yes, I'd love to see the Breen. That's one species that is very intriguing to me.
I have to give what you wrote in the last paragraph of the spoiler some more thought. I think it could work (esp. in the right hands).
Good ideas.

 

[Ockeghem]

I thought I'd share something I noticed tonight about a scene in an episode I've seen seven or eight times. It's To the Death (Season Four). This is the one in which the Federation and Jem'Hadar soldiers team up to destroy the Iconian gateway. I own the episode on VHS tape, and on the American and British DVDs.

It occurs right after the scene where Odo, Dax, Worf, and the Chief are dining. The Jem'Hadar soldier tells the Chief that he's ready to resume training, and the Chief isn't quite ready yet. So the soldier grabs the Chief, and Worf steps in and grabs a hold of the soldier, and they both tumble to the floor. When the First (Omet'iklan) arrives, he puts to death the Second for his disobedience. On the American version (VHS tape and DVD), we see the neck break and hear it quite plainly. On the U.K. version (DVD), it is edited out, and we see Sisko's face while the neck is presumably being snapped. I found this to be quite odd, and before tonight never noticed it before. (I know about the thirty-five or so seconds of battle on the planet that the Companion mentions as never having made it to the final version, but this segment I saw tonight is not that footage, and caught me by surprise.)

 

[Sam Favate]

Well, we watched Tears of the Prophets last night, the 6th season finale, and my wife is pissed off. She knew Dax was going to die because she saw it on Terry Farrell's IMDb page, but she didn't know when. (I kept saying things like "For all you know, she dies in the last episode.") So she was mad when it happened in the 6th season finale. (She doesn't even know that a character named Ezri exists.)

But in the conversation we had after the episode, I told her how Farrell's departure had sort of put the writers in a bind and they were stuck killing her off in an unsatisfactory manner. (Her death is not very heroic or befitting the character, and is barely any different from the unsatisfying death that Tasha Yar received in season 1 of TNG. The only difference being that Jadzia was a good character, while Yar wasn't, so much.)

Anyway, I thought of two things that could have been done differently that would have been more satisfying: 1) Jadzia could have been ordered to command a ship in the battle, one that could have made a decisive move against the enemy and allowed the Federation to win the battle, and that move could have cost her (and possibly that ship) her life. 2) Worf and Dax could have ended up working together in some capacity in the battle and very nearly cost the Federation victory, as circumstances similar to "Change of Heart" pop up again - that is, one of them puts their mate before duty. As a result, Sisko demands that they not work together again and orders Jadzia to serve elsewhere (on a ship, perhaps) for the remainder of the war. This would have allowed Farrell to return a time or two in the 7th season (as she said she would, if I remember correctly). Of course, this last approach would have denied us the character of Ezri, who was a nice addition to the series.

Scott, as for To The Death, it is one of my favorite episodes, and I remember reading about the edits, although I have only ever seen the US version, which I taped from TV all those years ago and have on Region 1 DVD.

 

[Ockeghem]

Well, we watched Tears of the Prophets last night, the 6th season finale, and my wife is pissed off. She knew Dax was going to die because she saw it on Terry Farrell's IMDb page, but she didn't know when. (I kept saying things like "For all you know, she dies in the last episode.") So she was mad when it happened in the 6th season finale. (She doesn't even know that a character named Ezri exists.)
But in the conversation we had after the episode, I told her how Farrell's departure had sort of put the writers in a bind and they were stuck killing her off in an unsatisfactory manner. (Her death is not very heroic or befitting the character, and is barely any different from the unsatisfying death that Tasha Yar received in season 1 of TNG. The only difference being that Jadzia was a good character, while Yar wasn't, so much.)
Anyway, I thought of two things that could have been done differently that would have been more satisfying: 1) Jadzia could have been ordered to command a ship in the battle, one that could have made a decisive move against the enemy and allowed the Federation to win the battle, and that move could have cost her (and possibly that ship) her life. 2) Worf and Dax could have ended up working together in some capacity in the battle and very nearly cost the Federation victory, as circumstances similar to "Change of Heart" pop up again - that is, one of them puts their mate before duty. As a result, Sisko demands that they not work together again and orders Jadzia to serve elsewhere (on a ship, perhaps) for the remainder of the war. This would have allowed Farrell to return a time or two in the 7th season (as she said she would, if I remember correctly). Of course, this last approach would have denied us the character of Ezri, who was a nice addition to the series.
Scott, as for To The Death, it is one of my favorite episodes, and I remember reading about the edits, although I have only ever seen the US version, which I taped from TV all those years ago and have on Region 1 DVD.

Sam,
I too did not like Jadzia's death. I'm somewhat unclear as to why she left the show, though. From what I have been able to find out, she didn't want to leave, and it came as a surprise to her as well as to the fans.
Re: To the Death--
Some of the edits I expected (like the ones on the planet that were considered too violent for television at the time). But the one while they were dining was IMO silly to leave out, especially given what eventually occurs on the planet.
BTW, our eldest daughter is working her way through the series now. She sat through Season Seven recently, and realized that she really wanted to find out what happened in the previous seasons. It should be a treat for her (and for us again).

 

[JonZ]

I though Farrell wanted to leave to do Becker.

The S6 finale made me furious when I first saw it and IMHO the show never recovered. The whole Dukat possessed by the Pah Wraiths thing never worked for me. It seemed like a copout and out of place on this show.

 

[Ockeghem]

JonZ:

I though Farrell wanted to leave to do Becker.

You could be right about that. I will have to look into it a bit more.

BTW, I liked Ezri. But with six years of backstory for Jadzia, it was tough to see her go.

 

[Sam Favate]

Farrell did indeed leave to do Becker. It didn't help that that show was also produced by Paramount, so the studio was no help in convincing her to stick around. Farrell didn't want to leave DS9 in the sense that she didn't want to be killed off; she would have prefered to be able to make guest appearances. You can't really blame her - a sitcom with Ted Danson, coming off of Cheers, seems a better career move than a syndicated genre show. Of course, with hindsight, we see that she might have done just as well sticking with DS9.

 

[Ockeghem]

Farrell did indeed leave to do Becker. It didn't help that that show was also produced by Paramount, so the studio was no help in convincing her to stick around. Farrell didn't want to leave DS9 in the sense that she didn't want to be killed off; she would have prefered to be able to make guest appearances. You can't really blame her - a sitcom with Ted Danson, coming off of Cheers, seems a better career move than a syndicated genre show. Of course, with hindsight, we see that she might have done just as well sticking with DS9.

Sam,
Thanks for that information. Much appreciated.
I actually like Nicole DeBoer (Ezri) as well, but she had very little time to grow on the fans as did Terry Farrell.
In any event, some of Greg_S_H's ideas would bring together both Jadzia and Ezri in some interesting ways (see spoiler above). If he writes the script, I'll read it.

 

[Nick Martin]

You have to keep in mind that the UK is notorious for cutting out scenes form shows and movies deemed too violent while they wouldn't be given a second thought here in North America. One example being "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" - the word "Ninja" is too violent a word so in the UK it's replaced with "Hero".
Terry Farrell's contract was up, and wanted more money. It's a simple as that. Money is also the reason she wasn't a part of the montage in the final episode - she wanted to be paid to have her image appear.
I recall co-creator Michael Piller commenting on the evolution of Ezri Dax, saying that's how they should have approached Jadzia's character when the show began - trying to sort out who she is, the different personalities within her, all of the issues Ezri dealt with.

 

[Sam Favate]

We finished the second half of the season 7 two-part opener last night. My wife feels better now, and is happy that the writers made an effort to address the fact that Jadzia effectively died for nothing (wrong place, wrong time). The scene at the end of Image in the Sand when Ezri comes to Sisko's, just as Ben and the others are about to set out on their journey and says "Hi Ben, it's me -- Dax" was a great moment. The audience feels the same relief that Sisko must have felt - here is his best friend! Back! To help him!

That Ezri is not a clone of Jadzia (figuratively, of course) was a great move. My wife has several questions now: Will Ezri remain on the station? What about Trills' prohibition on getting involved with former relationships? How will this effect Worf? During the 7th season premiere, she said "What a great show this is!" And she also said that, like Vic, she wants to start calling everyone "Pally."

 

[JonZ]

I just found it too convenient for another Dax to appear on the station.

I would have preferred a completely different character to come to the station as the new science offcer for S7.

 

[Jason Seaver]

They knew going in that this was almost certainly their last season, though, and probably figured that it didn't make sense to create a completely new character whom the audience might see as stealing screen time from the 23 established regular/recurring characters that they already cared about. In fact, people thought that about Ezri anyway; at the time I thought that they might not have added her except that it would have left Nana Visitor as the only female regular on the show.

 

[Ockeghem]

Sam Favate:

That Ezri is not a clone of Jadzia (figuratively, of course) was a great move. My wife has several questions now: Will Ezri remain on the station? What about Trills' prohibition on getting involved with former relationships? How will this effect Worf? During the 7th season premiere, she said "What a great show this is!" And she also said that, like Vic, she wants to start calling everyone "Pally."

Sam,
You and your wife will be getting answers to most of the questions you ask above. BTW, I like Ezri and Vic. I thought both were excellent additions to an already stellar cast. Enjoy your viewing!

 

[Sam Favate]

Oh, I've seen the show twice already. This is my third viewing of it all the way through. It's her first though, so I do my best not to give away anything that is going to happen. She's pretty good - she can call what's about to happen pretty well. Last night, in Shadows and Symbols, she knew Quark was going to join Worf, Bashir and O'Brien on their mission before it happened.
I introduced her to TNG before we watched DS9, and she liked that show, but likes this one more. When we are done with DS9, we're moving on to Babylon 5 and then Battlestar Galactica (the new one). I know there are a lot of similarities between B5 and DS9, but I prefer to appreciate both shows and not denigrate either. And I have long maintained that were it not for DS9 and B5 and their serialized drama, there would be no Lost, 24, etc. today.

 

[Ockeghem]

Sam Favate:

I introduced her to TNG before we watched DS9, and she liked that show, but likes this one more. When we are done with DS9, we're moving on to Babylon 5 and then Battlestar Galactica (the new one). I know there are a lot of similarities between B5 and DS9, but I prefer to appreciate both shows and not denigrate either. And I have long maintained that were it not for DS9 and B5 and their serialized drama, there would be no Lost, 24, etc. today.

Sam,

Do you have any interest in watching either TAS, ENT, or VOY? Just curious. I am working my way through VOY for the first time. I'm currently on Season Two.