Best Bang For The Buck? HSU VTF 2 vs SVS 20-39 PCi vs HSU VTF 3 (1 Viewer)

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>I do hear some of your points. You said that your measurements differed from TN. Did you measure the 10% THD using the same method he did?If so, how? I ask becuase the method used to measure THD can dramatically effect readings.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Sasha,

Have you talked to Dr. Hsu about the possible showdown yet? I don't want to wait too long to contact John Johnson about this if it looks like it might happen?

You've made a lot of claims(here ,but mostly elsewhere) about how the vtf-2 and the SVs compare. SVS is happy to let an independent professional reviewer compare the two side by side and let everyone see the results. What could give the consumer a more accurate representation of true performance than that?


TV

 

[Jack Gilvey]

That would be a great comparison, love to see how these all stack up. Hopefully, Howard Ferstler will do some comparisons in his VTF-3 review as he did with the Hsu 1220HO and 16-46, that's always revealing. Specifically, I'd like to see the relative rolloff (musicality?)of each in addition to loudness capability.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

I agree Jack, the more subs we can get in the same room at the same time,measured/auditioned the same way...the better.

I think I'm a little excited about the prospect of a good reviewer(who ALSO includes a ton of objective measurements) having both the HSU and SVS because I've been waiting almost a year now to see some feedback on the Ultra from TN. So...I'm in the *hey, let's take advantage of this chance* mode now. It might be a year or two before the chances comes back.

We have a PCi in Ferstler's hands too, but I wouldn't expect to see any feedback from him on it for a good 6 months unfortunately.

TV

 

[James Tg]

I agree with Jack and Tom. I own a TN1220 with 150W amp. It is real excellent subwoofer to my experience. I still want to know how it compares to SVS.

James

 

[Sasha_G]

Hey guys,
I can't be a go-between for Hsu Research and SVS. If JJ needs permission from Dr. Hsu to do a review, then he needs to ask Dr. Hsu directly. Otherwise, leave me out of it (like I said in my previous post in this thread). Sorry, I just can't be your middleman.
Personally, I think JJ would benefit greatly to have such a review. JJ has been using SVS subwoofers for several of his recent reviews (I think 3, including an Xbox review and a subwoofer shootout), but he has not had any Hsu reviews lately. He does have an old HRSW12V(a) review from '97 & an article on the Titan DIY #8 with Hsu driver.
Yes, the TN readings *might* vary slightly between reviews. There is a margin of error in all reviews. With the information you have presented, I don't think you have debunked the TN numbers yet, just called them into question. TN has reviewed dozens of subwoofers, and I still consider *him* the expert when it comes to doing reviews. If his numbers vary dramatically between reviews, then it would cast a shadow on the objective data in his other reviews. I still consider him the "king" of subwoofer reviewers--the "ace of bass". Though he only considers a 10% THD level, at least he takes into account THD! I'm not sure the Wide Screen Review (WSR) numbers influence the TN numbers. I couldn't find anything in the TN25 WSR numbers that took into account distortion levels, which is all that I am concered with. And the TN TN25 numbers were done with a broken unit, regardless of what *should* have happened.
I haven't taken any measurements of SVS subs myself (I'm just learning about subwoofer measurement), so all I can do is highlight some information from various sources to better inform myself and others. Consumers deserve it. You listening JJ?

 

[SVS-Ron]

I don't think anyone was suggesting you be a "middleman" Sasha, or put you in a difficult position, sorry if it came out that way. Making a recommendation that Hsu (the company) seek a review slot with someone reviewing one of ours was simply an idea, and you are well known as a Hsu spokesman. As a dealer I figured you might have some influence in this area, but I guess I can understand reluctance to get involved like that. End of subject.

For others, we'll drop a hint to Dr. Johnson that many on the web would be interested in a $500 subwoofer show-down and leave it at that. Any others folks think we might drop in such a "survey" of street priced $500 and less offerings? Hard to say this concept will ever see the light of day outside mainstream press like Sound and Vision but it's possible. Writing to them asking for subwoofer roundups couldn't hurt though.

Going to the "Secrets" site yourself and asking the staff there for more sub testing might get you what you want too. We're just happy they take the time with ours at all. To the sharp-eyed, yes, SVS advertises there now. After a site reviews three of your products you feel a desire to lend some support back.

I only hope we never send the testers there anything that doesn't meet expectations. I don't think I've ever discussed audio with someone with greater integrity than Dr. Johnson. Getting charts showing you don't perform well wouldn't be pleasant.

I think getting Lewis and Tyson in the ring together was easier 8^) It'll happen eventually. Dr. Johnson, H. Ferstler, Tom Nousaine; someone will eventually get curious enough.

When the PC-Plus is out in August we'll be ready with a sub in the VTF-3 price point too FWIW. Could get interesting?

Ron

 

[Adil M]

Ummm... since you guys are being conservative this time around w/ the PC+, what's to keep you from going ahead and sending one to JJ to compare to the VTF3. I'm "assuming" the design and production is set in stone by now. NO offense, but based on recent "spin" that's what I'd like to see and I'm sure plenty of others would too.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Adil,
It will be at least 8 weeks before we have a *production* quality PC+ ready to go. As soon as we do(and we have filled all pre-orders) we'll be happy to have JJ give it the once-over if he is interested.
Sasha, I thought you might be able to contact Dr. Hsu and let him know the chance was here...thats all. You seem confident the vtf-2 will outgun the 25-31PCi(based on your text elsewhere)...so I didn't think you would mind making a phone call to get this showdown moving in the right direction.I didn't expect you to personally *broker* the whole deal,I'm sorry if that is how my text read.
Maybe next time.(Just email me whenever we need to send the review subwoofer out and I'll have it on the way in 48 hours)
As for your text,
>>>Yes, the TN readings *might* vary slightly between reviews. There is a margin of error in all reviews. With the information you have presented, I don't think you have debunked the TN numbers yet, just called them into question. TN has reviewed dozens of subwoofers, and I still consider *him* the expert when it comes to doing reviews. If his numbers vary dramatically between reviews, then it would cast a shadow on the objective data in his other reviews. I still consider him the "king" of subwoofer reviewers--the "ace of bass". Though he only considers a 10% THD level, at least he takes into account THD!

 

[Drew Bethel]

I never thought I'd see the day when the almighty TN's data is questioned. Instead of speculating, why not just ask him about it (assuming that he is contactable via email or such)?

 

[steve nn]

Tom why don't you send me one of your SVS-s and Sasha you can send me a HSU and I will be sure to let you all know what a true bass addict thinks. We will get to the bottom of this pronto.

 

[Steve K.H.]

Wow, this thread went sideways on topic... the question was bang for the buck on three models.
Obviously with a new entrant coming in (The 20-39PC-Plus is going to be $749), the question still lingers...
Assuming aesthetics are not the concern, would not the tubular throw design of the SVS theoretically provide the framework for better dispersion within the room?
Hence, in a single sub configuration, localizing the sub from varied locations should (theoretically again) be lessened with this design versus the standard front or bottom throw in a box style sub.
To me the dB and THD ratings are all moot. The numbers are so damn close that the owner of any of these models is unlikely to be unhappy with their purchase.

 

[Michael R Price]

Steve, the shape of the sub has nothing to do with in-room response. It wouldn't affect dispersion at all.

 

[Steve K.H.]

Steve, the shape of the sub has nothing to do with in-room response. It wouldn't affect dispersion at all.

Not a thing? It appears a little coincidental that the better SVS subs are taller than their lesser priced units.
(color me ignorant... )

 

[EricHaas]

It doesn't affect dispersion. He didn't say it can't have an effect on other aspects of a subs performance, e.g. spl, extension.

 

[Jeffrey Forner]

Not a thing? It appears a little coincidental that the better SVS subs are taller than their lesser priced units.

Steve;

The size of the subs affect their bass extension and maximum output levels more than anything else. The taller subs go deeper but are not as loud as the smaller subs. I don't think that their dispersion is affected by the size of the sub at all.

 

[Robert_Gaither]

I vote for another contender to participate as well, hopefully Dan Wiggins from Adire sees this post and send a sub as well (Dharma, it's in the ballpark price wise) as this will be good pissing match indeed (does a VMPS small sub fit near this price with amp as well?). I would love to see the sub shootout for the best internet sub offerings availible as even the worst performer of this group could most likely spank most consumer subs in the $1000 bracket at your mass market and B&M stores.

 

[Roberto Carlo]

I have a question. The new prices for the SVS PC series have caused a case of upgradeitis. I live in 1350 square foot condo and am seated approximately 8 feet from the speakers. While I have vaulted ceilings, the actual viewing/listening space is on the small side. Would the 20-39 be too much for my situation? It's only $50 more than the 25-31, and the idea of extension down to 20Hz intrigues me. Then I think about my neighbors and vibrating their walls and ceiling. What do you think? I went to the web site and read the "which sub" part but I'm still not sure. Also, the 8 inch height difference between the subs gives me pause.

 

[Arron H]

I live in 1350 square foot condo and am seated approximately 8 feet from the speakers. While I have vaulted ceilings, the actual viewing/listening space is on the small side. Would the 20-39 be too much for my situation? It's only $50 more than the 25-31, and the idea of extension down to 20Hz intrigues me.

A 25-31PCi port tuned at 22Hz rather than 25Hz should extend below 20Hz. You would give up a Db or so of output but it sounds like that would not matter for you. There is no extra charge for tuning a 25-31PCi at 22Hz and it's $50 less than the 20-39PCi.

 

[Steve K.H.]

This place never ceases to educate.
The extension of the bass for the tubular design should be greater than the VTF's then, based upon the explanations provided. The volumes may be sacrificed.
One VTF might better serve a larger room then? A mid size room may reap better benefits from the SVS? Larger rooms would perhaps have a greater necessity to consider twin subs with the SVS?
ACK!!! :frowning:
This is going to go full circle. Your room size (including height) should dictate which of these puppies will better meet your needs... not some charting of virtually equivalent numbers.
The shootout would be great, but I'll bet it won't provide anything close to definitive answers.