Why do people like 5.1? (1 Viewer)

[Scott Burke]

I know this sounds like a weird questions, but it has been bothering me for awhile.
Why do people get 5.1 discrete audio, only to position speakers so they cannot tell where the sound is coming from?
In other words, whats the point of having something discrete if you cannot tell where the sound is coming from?
Do not get me wrong, I love 5.1, but I can always tell where the sound is coming from and I think it is cool here the sound "walk" around the room.
Like I said, it is kind of a weird question, but I was just curious.
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[Saurav]

It's a good thing if the sound walks smoothly across the room, instead of jumping from speaker to speaker. I think what most people shoot for is a setup where you can't tell where the speakers are located, i.e., even though there are just 5 speakers, the sounds seem to come from all around.
Unless you're talking about people with surround speakers that intentionally diffuse the sound... that creates a sense of spaciousness, sometimes.
I read your subject line and thought this would be a 2-channel vs. 5.1 post... that would have been funny, especially on a forum like this one

 

[Jim_C]

Well, I want to be completely enveloped by the sound of the movie, so I feel like I'm there in the action. In order for this to happen you really need to have a seamless soundstage. What discrete does, described here in a very oversimplified way, is allow the moments in the soundtrack that ARE directional to be localized in a very precise way within that soundstage. Matrix is not as good at providing that precise localization.
This butchered explanation brought to you by Jim

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[Bob McElfresh]

Scott: where are you getting the idea that we place speakers so that we dont know where the sound is coming from?
Yes, we do this with the sub. But that's because it is more of a tactile type of sound, and because we often route the low-frequency from all 5 speakers to it and we dont want to know where it is located.
The old pro-logic use of rear speakers WAS to create a non-locatable sound. But that was because the rear-sounds were limited and the same sound went to both rear speakers so you could NOT put locatable sounds.
Other than that, most of us love movies that do agressive use of sounds that go all around us. Some great examples are Das Boot where your rear speakers are alive with specific sounds a lot of the time.

 

[Reginald Trent]

Maybe people like 6 channel sound because it gets them more options. Because actually with a 5.1 setup you have the option of adjusting it to KNOW or NOT KNOW where the sound is coming from.

 

[Jon D]

It draws you in, and is impressive as hell when used properly. I'll never forget the first time I heard a rear speaker pan, it was the wind in the opening sequence of "Twister." 5.1 puts you in the movie, and can lessen the 'presentational' quality quite a bit. Would SPR have been as wrenching without the 'you are there' soundtrack? 5.1 can feel like a blanket, and that's why I use it as often as possible

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[John Garcia]

What's not to like?

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[Kevin C Brown]

I like this:
>>>
We place speakers so that we don't know where the sound is coming from.

 

[Bryan Acevedo]

I think he was talking about why people like a discrete 5.1 source, but then use something like dipoles or bipoles to diffuse the sound.
I don't think he was questioning why people like 5.1 in general.
Scott, I wonder the same thing, as I have all direct radiating speakers (monopoles) and I like the discrete sound. But then again, I have never tried bipoles or dipoles in my house - I may like those better if set up correctly.
Bryan

 

[Mark Kalzer]

I like it because it allows bad movies to still be entertaining. I mean, U-571 wasn't that good a movie, but the sound! Ohh the sound! *drools*

 

[Saurav]

I remember Twister too. I left the movie theater and realized that I hadn't eaten any of my popcorn, I was so awestruck by the movie. That was quite a revelation, that I sat through the whole movie with my bag of popcorn in my hand, and completely forgot about it!

 

[Bob McElfresh]

Oh yes, Twister.
I took this DVD with me when I was auditioning speakers. In one large room was a DefTech 3000 setup (1000-watt woofers in each tower, 500 watt woofer in the center) and I fired up the drive-in theater chapter of Twister.
The sound was NOT loud, but the ominous, subliminal and opressive LFE filled the room. Another customer had come in behind me with a little 4-year old daughter in tow. When the sound started, she looked all around her, then turned and trotted out the door wimpering for Mama. I gave the Dad an apologetic look, but he just grinned at me enjoying the experience.
Good times!
(Note: I dont make a habit of scaring little girls. I only do this to teenaged boys who crop up on my front porch like Dandelions - and I'm the lawn-mower man. )

 

[Scott Burke]

I'm sorry, apparently I'm not making my question clear. Let me try it again.
I read alot in this forum about getting a 'seamless' soundstage. People do not want to know where the sound is coming from they just want the sound to come. Maybe I am misunderstanding the threads or maybe even perhaps the terminology used.
I am just getting the impression that people do not want to know where the sound is "coming from". They just want the sound "to be".
I personally like the fact that I can tell when a sound comes from my rs to my fl speaker, or fr to fl. Have I misunderstood everyone, or am I correct? If I am correct, then my oringinal question is this: Why have a discreet sound channel if you do not want to know where it is coming from? Having a non-discrete system would non-localize the sound much more easily. Like I said, maybe I'm just misunderstanding everyone. It has been known to happen
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[Wes]

Scott, I thought I could tell we were not clearly understanding the question by the replies. I think most of us feel this way as I strive also for seamless sound. Sure a 5.1 system puts the discrete sounds in the channels and then to the speakers but that's were it should stop as being pin pointed and localized. Should all the bolts breaking in U571 come from the exact spot your Right Rear speaker is placed, No not always. Its all about imaging. The use of the discrete channels will allow the sound to be moved to a certain location with in the room. I hate to listen a system that I can close my eyes and tell almost precisely were the speakers are placed. My upstairs system is like that because of the wife and esthetics reasons. My dedicated theater set up when I get it completed should be incredibly enveloping in a way that the whole world that is projected on the screen will be also portrayed through the sound system into the room. But I try to create this by multiple speakers on the discrete channels and placing certain frequencies in certain spots.
Here is a drawing of the theater I am now building!
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Wes
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[Edited last by Wes on August 13, 2001 at 01:53 AM]
[Edited last by Wes on August 13, 2001 at 01:55 AM]
[Edited last by Wes on August 13, 2001 at 07:55 PM]

 

[Neil Weinstock]

Scott said:

I am just getting the impression that people do not want to know where the sound is "coming from". They just want the sound "to be".

To expand on Wes' reply (maybe?), the point is that you don't necessarily want to be able to localize the source of the sound to the individual speakers. In the real world, sound comes from everywhere; that's the feeling you're trying to recreate. If you hear a sound and turn and look at the speaker it came from, that's a distraction.
So you want the 360 degree soundfield that you can get with discrete soundtracks, you just don't want it to sound like it's localized into 5 (or 6, or 7, whatever) point sources.
Note that this is true of 2 channel music as well; you want the speakers to "disappear", but certainly not sound like it's mono or anything.
Did this help or add to the confusion here?

 

[Bob McElfresh]

Duhhh... the light dawns.
Scott: We DO want to tell where the sound comes from.
By "seamless", we dont want the sound to JUMP from dead-center to the far right suddenly.
We want the sound to TRANSITION around us smoothly.
Try this: que up a good chapter with lots of surround effects (Saving Private Ryan, Das Boot, Die Hard with a Vengance, Star Trek:Insurrection)
Turn OFF your TV. (Otherwise your eyes will "fix" the location of the events in front of you).
Sit in the room with a book/newspaper and when surround-effects are present, listen to how they move arround. Do the sounds jump or move smoothly?
The goal is a smooth movement.
Does this help?

 

[Rick Mach]

-deleted- sorry I accidently posted in the wrong thread.
[Edited last by Rick Mach on August 13, 2001 at 11:33 AM]

 

[Scott Burke]

Thank you guys, that indeed answered my question. I appreciate all of the answers! Now if I could only get my system to do that!
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