1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

Why do people like 5.1?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Scott Burke, Aug 9, 2001.

  1. Scott Burke

    Scott Burke Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2000
    Messages:
    488
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Location:
    United States
    Real Name:
    Scott B.
    I know this sounds like a weird questions, but it has been bothering me for awhile.
    Why do people get 5.1 discrete audio, only to position speakers so they cannot tell where the sound is coming from?
    In other words, whats the point of having something discrete if you cannot tell where the sound is coming from?
    Do not get me wrong, I love 5.1, but I can always tell where the sound is coming from and I think it is cool here the sound "walk" around the room.
    Like I said, it is kind of a weird question, but I was just curious.
    ------------------
    My DVD Collection
     
  2. Saurav

    Saurav Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Messages:
    2,174
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It's a good thing if the sound walks smoothly across the room, instead of jumping from speaker to speaker. I think what most people shoot for is a setup where you can't tell where the speakers are located, i.e., even though there are just 5 speakers, the sounds seem to come from all around.
    Unless you're talking about people with surround speakers that intentionally diffuse the sound... that creates a sense of spaciousness, sometimes.
    I read your subject line and thought this would be a 2-channel vs. 5.1 post... that would have been funny, especially on a forum like this one [​IMG]
     
  3. Jim_C

    Jim_C Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2001
    Messages:
    2,058
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    610
    Well, I want to be completely enveloped by the sound of the movie, so I feel like I'm there in the action. In order for this to happen you really need to have a seamless soundstage. What discrete does, described here in a very oversimplified way, is allow the moments in the soundtrack that ARE directional to be localized in a very precise way within that soundstage. Matrix is not as good at providing that precise localization.
    This butchered explanation brought to you by Jim [​IMG]
    ------------------
    You want to upgrade again?!!
     
  4. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

    Joined:
    May 22, 1999
    Messages:
    5,182
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Scott: where are you getting the idea that we place speakers so that we dont know where the sound is coming from?
    Yes, we do this with the sub. But that's because it is more of a tactile type of sound, and because we often route the low-frequency from all 5 speakers to it and we dont want to know where it is located.
    The old pro-logic use of rear speakers WAS to create a non-locatable sound. But that was because the rear-sounds were limited and the same sound went to both rear speakers so you could NOT put locatable sounds.
    Other than that, most of us love movies that do agressive use of sounds that go all around us. Some great examples are Das Boot where your rear speakers are alive with specific sounds a lot of the time.
     
  5. Reginald Trent

    Reginald Trent Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2000
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Maybe people like 6 channel sound because it gets them more options. Because actually with a 5.1 setup you have the option of adjusting it to KNOW or NOT KNOW where the sound is coming from.
     
  6. Jon D

    Jon D Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2000
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It draws you in, and is impressive as hell when used properly. I'll never forget the first time I heard a rear speaker pan, it was the wind in the opening sequence of "Twister." 5.1 puts you in the movie, and can lessen the 'presentational' quality quite a bit. Would SPR have been as wrenching without the 'you are there' soundtrack? 5.1 can feel like a blanket, and that's why I use it as often as possible [​IMG].
    ------------------
    Women are often attracted to men with money and power. I have neither, and they know it.
     
  7. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
    What's not to like? [​IMG]
    ------------------
    All progress is based upon a universal, inate desire on the part of every organism, to live beyond it's income.
    ITRCA ** Honda/Acura Club ** Speedring (sorry, car guy)
     
  8. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2000
    Messages:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I like this:
    >>>
    We place speakers so that we don't know where the sound is coming from.
     
  9. Bryan Acevedo

    Bryan Acevedo Second Unit

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think he was talking about why people like a discrete 5.1 source, but then use something like dipoles or bipoles to diffuse the sound.
    I don't think he was questioning why people like 5.1 in general.
    Scott, I wonder the same thing, as I have all direct radiating speakers (monopoles) and I like the discrete sound. But then again, I have never tried bipoles or dipoles in my house - I may like those better if set up correctly.
    Bryan
     
  10. Mark Kalzer

    Mark Kalzer Second Unit

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2000
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I like it because it allows bad movies to still be entertaining. I mean, U-571 wasn't that good a movie, but the sound! Ohh the sound! *drools*
     
  11. Saurav

    Saurav Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Messages:
    2,174
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I remember Twister too. I left the movie theater and realized that I hadn't eaten any of my popcorn, I was so awestruck by the movie. That was quite a revelation, that I sat through the whole movie with my bag of popcorn in my hand, and completely forgot about it! [​IMG]
     
  12. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

    Joined:
    May 22, 1999
    Messages:
    5,182
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Oh yes, Twister.
    I took this DVD with me when I was auditioning speakers. In one large room was a DefTech 3000 setup (1000-watt woofers in each tower, 500 watt woofer in the center) and I fired up the drive-in theater chapter of Twister.
    The sound was NOT loud, but the ominous, subliminal and opressive LFE filled the room. Another customer had come in behind me with a little 4-year old daughter in tow. When the sound started, she looked all around her, then turned and trotted out the door wimpering for Mama. I gave the Dad an apologetic look, but he just grinned at me enjoying the experience.
    Good times!
    (Note: I dont make a habit of scaring little girls. I only do this to teenaged boys who crop up on my front porch like Dandelions - and I'm the lawn-mower man. [​IMG])
     
  13. Scott Burke

    Scott Burke Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2000
    Messages:
    488
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Location:
    United States
    Real Name:
    Scott B.
    I'm sorry, apparently I'm not making my question clear. Let me try it again.
    I read alot in this forum about getting a 'seamless' soundstage. People do not want to know where the sound is coming from they just want the sound to come. Maybe I am misunderstanding the threads or maybe even perhaps the terminology used.
    I am just getting the impression that people do not want to know where the sound is "coming from". They just want the sound "to be".
    I personally like the fact that I can tell when a sound comes from my rs to my fl speaker, or fr to fl. Have I misunderstood everyone, or am I correct? If I am correct, then my oringinal question is this: Why have a discreet sound channel if you do not want to know where it is coming from? Having a non-discrete system would non-localize the sound much more easily. Like I said, maybe I'm just misunderstanding everyone. It has been known to happen [​IMG]
    ------------------
    My DVD Collection
     
  14. Wes

    Wes Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 1997
    Messages:
    1,190
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Utah USA
    Real Name:
    Wes Peterson
    Scott, I thought I could tell we were not clearly understanding the question by the replies. I think most of us feel this way as I strive also for seamless sound. Sure a 5.1 system puts the discrete sounds in the channels and then to the speakers but that's were it should stop as being pin pointed and localized. Should all the bolts breaking in U571 come from the exact spot your Right Rear speaker is placed, No not always. Its all about imaging. The use of the discrete channels will allow the sound to be moved to a certain location with in the room. I hate to listen a system that I can close my eyes and tell almost precisely were the speakers are placed. My upstairs system is like that because of the wife and esthetics reasons. My dedicated theater set up when I get it completed should be incredibly enveloping in a way that the whole world that is projected on the screen will be also portrayed through the sound system into the room. But I try to create this by multiple speakers on the discrete channels and placing certain frequencies in certain spots.
    Here is a drawing of the theater I am now building!
    http://www.prosteering.8k.com/images/psexs.gif
    Wes
    Prosteering EXS
    'We have you surrounded"
    [Edited last by Wes on August 13, 2001 at 01:53 AM]
    [Edited last by Wes on August 13, 2001 at 01:55 AM]
    [Edited last by Wes on August 13, 2001 at 07:55 PM]
     
  15. Neil Weinstock

    Neil Weinstock Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Scott said:
     
  16. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

    Joined:
    May 22, 1999
    Messages:
    5,182
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Duhhh... the light dawns.
    Scott: We DO want to tell where the sound comes from.
    By "seamless", we dont want the sound to JUMP from dead-center to the far right suddenly.
    We want the sound to TRANSITION around us smoothly.
    Try this: que up a good chapter with lots of surround effects (Saving Private Ryan, Das Boot, Die Hard with a Vengance, Star Trek:Insurrection)
    Turn OFF your TV. (Otherwise your eyes will "fix" the location of the events in front of you).
    Sit in the room with a book/newspaper and when surround-effects are present, listen to how they move arround. Do the sounds jump or move smoothly?
    The goal is a smooth movement.
    Does this help?
     
  17. Rick Mach

    Rick Mach Auditioning

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    -deleted- sorry I accidently posted in the wrong thread.
    [Edited last by Rick Mach on August 13, 2001 at 11:33 AM]
     
  18. Scott Burke

    Scott Burke Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2000
    Messages:
    488
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Location:
    United States
    Real Name:
    Scott B.
    Thank you guys, that indeed answered my question. I appreciate all of the answers! [​IMG] Now if I could only get my system to do that! [​IMG]
    ------------------
    My DVD Collection
     

Share This Page