What is the general opinion on Definitive Technology speakers ? (1 Viewer)

[Bob_A]

Philip I am not surprised you like your DT sub...I really love the built in subs...very tight and tuneful and deep. DT subs may not be the end all in subwoofer performance...but at their street prices they are quite good IMHO.

 

[Drew Eckhardt]

On Definitive brightness:
Live music, especially metal percussion instruments (cymbals, triangles, glockenspielen) produce high-frequency harmonics.
Some people think the presence of these natural sounds are brighness; although I think that when they're missing it sounds like you have cotton in your ears.
All recordings are also not created equal, and too many rock records (Rupert Hine's butchering of the Rush Presto album is one example) are lean and bright sounding. Them sounding bad is not the speakers' fault.
That said, Definitive BP8s, C1s, BP1s, and C1Bs (all of which I own) are a bit bright with neutral recordings, or at least forward sounding in the upper registers.
Metalic percussion instruments sound tonally correct but unatturally close and loud compared to other neutralish speakers in the same price range, given broken in BP8s and circa 1995 Adcom or Rotel electronics (which err to the warm side of neutral), the Adcom 545ii/500ii combination in three rooms (using other speakers and electronics, I've concluded that the 545ii approximates straight wire with gain with deviations towards bright and bass slam, and the 500ii is crap which does vague and amorphous bad things), the Adcom 545ii with a Marantz 7c (original, retubed recently with Sovtek 12AX7WXT tubes) or one of several home brew tube line stages (12AX7 based plate loaded gain stages with a cathode follower output and various feedback topologies or a single stage 12AT7 SRPP design), and mono-blocked Adcom 545ii amplifiers with a Lexicon DC-1.
I don't find this objectionable or unlistenable with the pre-B speakers; although it's definately there and worth noting. With the C1B, it's more pronounced and is offensive.
As always, YMMV.

 

[Andrew 'Ange Hamm' Hamm]

As a famous rapper once said "versatile and flexible with Swiss Army precision".

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[Bob_A]

quote: That said, Definitive BP8s, C1s, BP1s, and C1Bs (all of which I own) are a bit bright with neutral recordings, or at least forward sounding in the upper registers.[/quote]
Again how can you directly attribute this to the speakers? Do we even know what constitutes a "neutral" recording? How are your speakers placed (distance from rear walls, side walls, distance between them, degree of toe in)? Have you tried different cd players and cables?
I have listened to many many recordings, including mp3 turned CD, and now there is next to nothing which I find overly bright or forward sounding in the upper registers (and I have them mated with a yamaha dspA1 which has never been known to roll off the highs, to put it lightly...also I know my speakers are different from the 8's, but my speakers have the same tweeter as the 8's and I would think the highs would sound somewhat similar, though I could be wrong).
[Edited last by Bob_A on August 14, 2001 at 09:11 PM]

 

[Brian OK]

I have a Def Tech PF 15TL subwoofer. I have been running it for close to 2 years now.
I can only say that I have been very, very pleased with this subs performance. It goes deep. I selected this sub based upon an old review from Home Theater mag. I have since canned that mag, but the sub remains.
What better compliment to a good product and a solid performer. I shot the messenger, but love what he brought me.
PS-- I have the PF15 on Vibrapods, and will say that it is an option (whether you have hardwoods, or use it with an MDF board on carpet) for those willing to tweak and/or experiment.
BOK

 

[Alex Yang]

Samson,
Hubert, Bob_a and I just had ANOTHER thread regarding the DefTech vs. Mirage... !!! This might be of interest to you!
I recently auditioned BOTH speakers and they were EXTREMELY close, I auditioned the BP200TL and the FULL range of Mirage speakers OM-5, OM-7, OM-9 and the ONLY speaker the matched the BP2000TL were the OM-5 with the built in POWERED sub!!!
Personally, I liked the Mirage a little better, MY friend who auditioned the speakers with me like the Def Tech!
Mirage had a more clearer, sound when playing classical music and female vocals (eg, Faith Hill, Shania Twain, Celine Dion...) The Def Tech couldn't match up to the Mirage in that department (again my opinion and your milege will vary so test drive for yourself!)...
If I had to put a numerical value to the two speakers I would rate the Def Techs (95 out of 100) and Mirage (98 out of 100)... In the end, I wound up with the Mirage because of TWO (2) reasons:
1. Better clarity
2. Phenomenal price!!! (I picked up the OM-5 "Glossy Black" for $2200...)
For that price I couldn't afford to pass them up!!!! At full ticket pricing $3500 pair (Mirage OM-5) vs. Deftech BP2000TL, the decision would have been EXTREMELY hard to make... Also the I didn't even bother to price out the OM-7 or OM-9 again the DefTech BP2000TL as this is NOT even in their league!!! (Only the OM-5 has the powered sub!!!)
Either way good luck and DEFINATELY take the sagely advice of ALL members here and NO MATTER what you MUST TEST out the speakers first, ultimately it will be purchased for your enjoyment not ours (unless you invite us ofcourse!!!) so take all opinions with a grain of salt!!

 

[Bob_A]

Alex the OM-5's are great speakers...and at that price they are a great deal. They have very good bass, though they can't quite match the 2000TL's in the bass department.
Alex did the dealer wire the 2000TL's "full range"? Did the dealer bi/triwire them(a LOT of people have said this makes a significant difference, though I have never felt the need to do so)? Did you try them with different amp/preamp combos other than the Sunfire?
I'm not trying to say that you should have gotten the 2000TL's...but I wonder about the clarity issue. With DT's, even cd player and cable choice is important (and all those things I mentioned above). Many people point to clarity and female vocals as some of the very strong points of the DT's...I'm not even using separates and I am using a cheap cd player and moderately priced cables, and I find the clarity to be almost "eerie"...and female vocals are as pure as I've heard (even after hearing Martin Logan, Dynaudio, Mirage, etc).

and NO MATTER what you MUST TEST out the speakers first

I agree with this...but try not to take an in-store audition as the end-all/be-all unless there is NO way you can hear the speakers at home. I have rarely had a great audition of Def Techs in store...at home after living with them for a while I was able to really get them to sing.
[Edited last by Bob_A on August 14, 2001 at 11:32 PM]

 

[Hubert]

I have to respectfully disagree. The BP2000 is easily in the OM-7's and OM-9's league. As for clarity, both Mirage and Def Tech are spectacular. The one thing about the Def Tech tha amazes me is it's ability to play at extreme spl levels and still maintain clarity and clean output. I've gotten mine to 120db and they didn't even sweat. They're just loafing along at stupid volumes.
It's all a matter of preference, but Def Tech does movies better in my opinion. Miarage may have a slight edge in music, but it's basically a pick 'em. Whatever the case. people in the end will defend what they buy, no matter what. Even if they bought Optimus from Radio Shack, they're gonna defend it.
It all comes down to your ear. Some people don't like bipolars, some love bipolars. Others like planar or electrostatic. I've heard speakers and systems costing $50, 000 and more that I absolutely hated. I've heard systems costing $2000 that I absolutely loved. Buy what sounds good to you in your price range. And compare different models.
As for the BP2000s and the BP3000s on music Bob. They're identical. The only difference is the bigger, more powerful sub. And you really can't hear a difference between the subs on music. Only on movies can you tell which is which. But the BP2000s have plenty of sub oomph to satisfy all but those looking for reference level bass down to 20Hz, which few if any stand alone can do. Not even the Velodyne HGS-18 that I own can do reference level at 20Hz. I imagine 2 could.

 

[Bob_A]

Hubert, what Alex was saying was that out of the OM5/7/9, only the OM5 could compete with the 2000TL's.
I agree that musically it would depend on preferences...but lack of clarity and a deficiency with vocals (particularly female vocals) is something that you shouldn't get with the 2000TL's...believe me!
Alex, why did your friend prefer the 2000TL's to the Mirage OM-5's?

 

[MatthewJ S]

The def-tecs are an instrument of GREAT marketing !They are designed with the understanding that the market is largely driven by home theater and the def-tecs are weighted to do HT beutifully! Now, although I like a proper amount of bass in music, we all know that there is no such thing as too much bass in HT .When the howitzer round lands next to the actors in a movie ther just isn't enough bass in the world of audio to reproduce that impact(but I keep getting closer!). so, given that bass production is very important in HT ,I deal with bass(OR RATHER THE OVER-THE-TOP-BASS)AS A SEPERATE ISSUE. Because I love music (well balanced) and my wife plays classical violin, I pick speakers for their musical performance and then integrate the bass.I also feel somewhat un-impressed with the lack of flexibilty in crossover slope/control/point/etc. when it comes to powered towers trying to do HT(now, if they are set-up strictly for music and HT bass is dealt with seperately this opinion changes, as they are simply judged on their merits as a full range,balanced,speaker)So, I only offer that ,imho , you may want to evaluate based on music (if it's important to you)first ,and then look for impact...BASS ,BASS, BASS!

 

[John H]

I have my BP2000TL mains set up as full range only. They reproduce no LFE channel signals or redirected bass.
I use Avia to balance the upper and lower sections. A pair of outboard subwoofers and a pair of Buttkickers handle the ultra lows for movie soundtracks.
I run the 2000's full range for music with no outboad subs/TT's. I highpass them at 40Hz for movies.
Although my system was designed with HT in mind I am very pleased with their performnace on music.
John
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[Bob_A]

Alex you have any answers? I'm curious... Thanks.

 

[MatthewJ S]

john , it seems that you have a sytem that offers a great deal of flexibility(ie a 40hz crossover point)this is one of the reasons that I use a B&K . it also appears that you switch between settings for music & movies,i'm curios ,do you make other adjustments (besides crossovers)? Do you ever listen to organ music or other music w/ sub 20hz bass?
I am interested in the set-ups people have in relation to crossovers/slopes/all types of bass mngmnt....Thanks

 

[John H]

Matthew,
My processor allows me to select a 40Hz 2 order highpass. It also allows me to bypass it's internal lowpass filter when using external units.
I use the lowpass bypass feature as I use a Paradigm X-30 unit for this. It contains a continuously adjustable 3 order lowpass filter. It allows a little more flexibilty to my low end. I also perfer the 18dB per octave slope of the filter over the 4th order in my pre/pro.
I place the internal crossover filters in my outboard subwoofers in their bypass mode. This places only one lowpass filter in the signal path.
I like using a 40Hz highpass point for movies. This sends all ultralows to my outboard subwoofers and tactile transducers.
I use an Audio Control PCA subharmonic synthesizer on my subwoofers. I calibrate/match it's level to the other channels after subharmonics have been added.
I use two on my tactile transducers. Another PCA and a Behringer EX1200. The PCA is setup for 1 octave below generation and the EX1200 generates signals 2 octaves below the original.
I use another X-30 on my TT's lowpassed at 35Hz.
I do not listen to any music with sub 20Hz information.
I listen to redbook CD's and stereo SACD music in analog direct bypass.
When I listen to multi channel DTS CD's, Concert DVD's and DVD-audio I bypass all subharmonic processing. I trim the subwoofers gain in my processor by +12dB. This compensates for the gain they add to the LFE/Sub signal. This brings the calibration level of the LFE back up to match the other channels.
John
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[Edited last by John H on August 16, 2001 at 09:03 AM]

 

[Hubert]

I use B&K as well. The B&K Reference 30 and the B&K Reference 7260II. I like the flexibility in crossing over each speaker that the B&K gives you.
Well color me stupid. Sorry Alex if I misread your comment. That wasn't my intention.
[Edited last by Hubert on August 16, 2001 at 04:26 PM]

 

[MatthewJ S]

John, I love to see someone doing it right!

 

[Hubert]

Sounds like John has a nice setup. But there is no such a thing as the right way. Whatever setup you like best is the right way. But I understand what you're saying Matthew.

 

[John H]

But there is no such a thing as the right way. Whatever setup you like best is the right way.

Yes, in the end personal preference should dictate final setup.
John
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