What is the general opinion on Definitive Technology speakers ? (1 Viewer)

[KevinW]

Not much that I can add except that I LOVE! the speakers. I've auditioned just about every model and I'm still amazed by the depth and clarity of sound.
I've had the ProCinema 100.6 set for over a year now, and even though it's not my dream set, I highly recommend them. I wanted to go with a pair of BP10's, one of the clr's, and bpx's for the rear, and of course a sub or two(but never really decided on which one. But, like most of us, I only have a LR/HT. So I went with the 100's, which had an extremely high SAF! And left a little money on the side for extras too. But don't believe what anyone says about cost. Once you get them home you won't give a damn what you paid for them!
Buy them and enjoy!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bob_A]

John which amplification did you find "best" with the Def Techs? Thanks.

 

[John H]

Bob_A,
I have been usng a pair of PF18TL's from the beginning.
I drove my first setup, original BP2000 mains, C/L/R 2000 and a pair of BPX surrounds with a Yamaha 992 receiver. I then stepped up to the 3090 integrated amp.
Later on I moved up to the DSP-A1 and added another pair of BPX surrounds to the rear and BP2X's for front effects. I eventually repaced the BP2X's with another pair of BPX's.
Out of the Yamaha's I'd say the DSP-A1 sounded the best. 8 months later I added a Cinema Grand for external amplification. I used the DSP-A1's now available higher power main 110w amps to drive the front effects. The DSP-A1/Sunfire combination really made the Def Techs sing.
Later I got rid of the DSP-A1 and replaced it with the Sony 9000 pre/pro. That lasted just a few months. I could not live with the S/N hiss.
That's when I moved to Parasound AVC-2500 pre/pro. I paired it with the Sunfire for a few months and then decided to experiment with passive biamplification.
I used one Parasound HCA-1000A stereo amplifier per front stage speaker to vertical biamp the mid/bass and highs. By that time I had upgraded to the C/L/R 3000 also.
I used a HCA-1500A to drive the 2 pair of BPX surrounds wired in parallel.
Now my system was sounding quite good. I used this for a few months and then decided to give the HCA-2205A a try driving the mid/bass and an Anthem MC3 (?) driving the highs after making sure the voltage gains were compatable.
I eventually went back to driving them with just the HCA-2205A and the HCA-1500A driving the rear wall BPX pair.
Someware down the line I was using 2 pair of BPVX/P's for surrounds.
Recently I replaced my original BP2000 mains with BP30's highpassed at 80 Hz.
My current configuration is
Mains - BP2000TL
Center - C/L/R 3000
Surrounds - 2 pair BPVX
Subs - pair PF18TL's
I would say that the Parasound equipment sounds the best with the Def Techs for my taste. I have stuck with Parasound equipment the longest.
I may look at their C1 controller when it makes it's scheduled debut later this year.
Wow that sounds a little crazy after going back and reading!

Sorry, I've been awake for 2 days.
John
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[Bob_A]

John hopefully you are getting some good sleep right now...keep enjoying those wonderful 2000TL's!

 

[John H]

Bob,
Thanks

John
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[Chuck Kent]

I would guess that many of us would agree that whether or not a speaker is "bright sounding" is pretty much a subjective opinion. I attribute how bright something sounds to me on my hearing sensitivity to certain frequencies (low treble.)
That said, I owned a pair of BP-10s and a C-1 for a couple of years or so. I tried them in 2 different rooms, driven by 2 different brands of equipment. In both cases, I found them too bright for my tastes.
I can easily see (hear) why they are very appealing to so many users. They just weren't what I was looking for in the end...
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[Bob_A]

Chuck...what brands of electronics did you use? I am assuming you broke them in well (>100 hours).
Of course Def Tech has updated their models (with the bp10b now). But in general there could be many reasons why they were bright. One is the associated equipment...this included cables, cd player, receiver, etc. Another is degree of toe in (with too much toe in they will be brighter). Also important is distance from the walls (if they are too close to the rear or side walls, they will be noticeably brighter). Finally if they are next to an rptv (on the same plane in particular) then they will be brighter.
Believe me, with a little bit of work they shouldn't be bright (have peakiness in the high frequency range).

 

[Matt Bloxham]

After a few months of research for a sub (before I found out about SVS)I bought a PF15TL+ to replace a cheap sub I had bought a year early. I used it to go with B&W 602's fronts, 601's rears and Polk 400csi center. I was really impressed with the deepness of the sub, without being to boomy! After a month I turned on my HT and to my surprise had no sound coming out of my sub

I checked all the wires and everything was ok. Took it back to Ultimate Electronics, they hooked it up and nothing! So they exchanged it for a new one. When I got it home, I hooked it up, and nothing from the new sub at all

So I called their tech support(Def Tech) The tech was very good and told me to check everything, he even had me run it through hi-pass wires to see if my LFE sub cable was working, and still nothing. Took it back to UE, they checked it again, and then exchanged it again! That's been 2 months ago(touch wood) and so far its still sounding great! I called the tech back and he said that they only have maybe 3% failure and it was probably something in the power supply or amp. Just thought I'd share my story, that even good brands can sometimes have a few bad apples

 

[John H]

Matt,
Welcome to the forum.
I am sure your Def Tech equipment failure was an isolated incident.
I have been using a pair of their PF18TL subs in my sytstem for several years now.
Note: These were purchased well before SVS conception. I have spoken with Tom V about an SVS upgrade. He said that with a pair of PF18's in conjunction with my subharmonic synthesiized minipulated Buttkicker tactile transducer setup I am already fully loaded in my 2048 cu ft room.
I have also used an Audio Control PCA III subharmonic sythesizer on the PF18's from early on and they are going strong.
I have used several types of their internally powered low frequency section speakers. This includes a pair of original BP2000's which I used for a few years.
Their amplifiers all performed flawlessly and never exhibited any signs of faultiness.
In a previous reply to this thread I have listed all my model experience.
I have never had any problems with any Def Tech product.
John
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[Edited last by John H on August 13, 2001 at 01:29 AM]

 

[Bob_A]

Hubert your choice of words has me snickering a bit
I agree that with careful attention to associated equipment and setup, no one should find these speakers seriously lacking. Generally I am convinced that anyone who seems to dislike them (particular at home) has not spent enough time setting them up and matching them well.
Hubert, some questions for you: your relative has a pair of OM-5's correct? How does his system compare to yours with both music and movies? Just wanted some more detail about this. Thanks.
[Edited last by Bob_A on August 13, 2001 at 01:30 AM]
[Edited last by Bob_A on August 13, 2001 at 01:33 AM]

 

[Chuck Kent]

Bob: Maybe it all comes down to how I interpret what I hear vs. what others hear. Over the last fews years (and several pairs of speakers), I have found that I just don't like a "front row" perspective. And while, IMO, Def Techs image as if being back a few rows from the performers, I felt that their tonal balance was "front row". (In my mind, another way of defining "front row" would be flat response from the lower midrange on up (or if really bad, a rising frequency response throughout this range.) For me, this could be described as the same type of response that Stereophile has sometimes called "thin" or "lean". Or what I consider "bright" sounding.)
I ran the Def Techs for a little over 2 years (over hundreds of hours) driving them with Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer and Sony receivers. I also used the DTs in my main system using the Pioneer and Denon units with Bryston, and later, Adcom amps. Throughout this entire period (while I found many things I liked about them) if I listened at very high volumes or listened to them for more than a couple of hours, listening fatigue would set in. It was worse when playing CDs but I would also get it a bit with movies too. This was my experience no matter which brand of electronics was used or which room (or room placement) was tried.
I'll be the first to admit that hearing big sonic character differences between say Denon and Yamaha (and cables too) escapes me. But tonal differences between speakers is something I can hear very easily. I felt that short of moving to tubed electronics (which gives closer to the sound I was after) I wasn't going to be happy with the DTs. I didn't (and still don't) have the money to go tubes, so my only answer was to move to a different brand of speaker.
As I mentioned above, there were several things I liked about my DTs. 2 of the best was the room filling imaging and the bass output. But the tonal balance was just something I could never solve or get past...
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[Bob_A]

But the tonal balance was just something I could never solve or get past

Chuck how did you set up your speakers (how much space in between, to the sides, and to the rear)? Were there any obstructions on the sides?
It is possible that your room was not conducive to bipolars...if the speakers are too close to the walls I could easily see them getting bright, especially at higher levels. I could not even imagine placing my speakers in anything but a large room because they throw out such a big sound (although they sound excellent at lower volumes and high volumes).
I have found that with Def Techs, even the choice of cd player and cables makes a huge difference in the sound. When played through my dvd player, the sound is much much worse than when played through my 10 year old Sony 5-disc cd player. Also, I have found that when the cables got cluttered a little (and when the excess cable was coiled) that the sound degraded...when everything was cleaned up things were great again.
Now I'm not saying that you are inherently wrong by not keeping the Definitives...but I am still very surprised that you found them so seemingly unlistenable. Did you try listening to other Definitives? Did you try some different cables and/or cd player? Why bother to keep the speakers so long if they would give you fatigue? Anyway, remember that Definitive has upgraded the drivers in their speakers (I believe) and has made some refinements to their current line of speakers. I suspect that you would have found b&k amps and your definitives to be a better match, but again cables and cd player probably were a factor too.

 

[JohnFR]

I auditioned the Procinema 100s and thought they sounded incredible for their size. I very nearly bought the BP2000s. Still being a bit of a newbie, I think I was scared off a little by bipolars. From what I have learned about then, placement and room acoustics are absolutely critical to getting the best sound. I think direct-radiating speakers are a little more forgiving in this regard.

 

[Bob_A]

JohnFR I think placement issues with bipolars aren't as critical as you might think...the amp/receiver, cd player, and cable choice are much more important. I only have four feet in between my 2000TL's and they sound amazing! Bipolar has several advantages: huge soundstage, great depth, and extra power handling (to name a few) and they really fill the room with ease. But for maximum performance it is advisable to carefully position them (just experiment with degrees of toe in, distance around speakers etc.). You would do this for any loudspeaker (particularly towers). Generally you want 1-3 feet for the rears to fire, probably 5-8 feet in between the speakers with a slight toe in. Also for the powered towers you want to keep the sides unobstructed for the side firing subs.
I have heard that bipolars are actually more giving for "imperfect" or "unideal" rooms (including those which have hardwood floors).
JohnFR with some setup tips from me, I can almost assure you that you would love those 2000TL's at home. How big is your room? What will you be driving them with?
[Edited last by Bob_A on August 13, 2001 at 06:17 PM]

 

[Chuck Kent]

Bob_A: I guess what I meant to say was 2 systems, not just 2 brands...(old age setting in???)
True enough on the higher volume. But I also had listening fatigue even when the volume wasn't necessarily very loud. It occured a good bit when I had longer listening times, even at lower volumes.
I also agree that my room may have contributed to the situation. The room is a mix of painted drywall surfaces, a few curtains/windows and carpet. Another factor is that I live in a rental and have limits as to what I can do as far as changes. (One thing worth noting is that with the warmer tonal balanced speakers (not bipolars, but not because I don't care for them) I'm now using, I have yet to experience any lower treble fatigue (they are in the same positions as the DTs were located.)
As for the differences in CD player and cables...The CD players that I ran with the DTs were a non-ES Sony 5 disc and an Adcom 5 disc. Truthfully, they never sounded much different to me, even though the Adcom was considered a pretty good player when it first came out. And, unfortunately, I suffered from fatigue using both.
Cables? Mine are a mix of inexpensive Monster and Radio Shack golds. In the few times that I have bought some better Monsters, I've never heard any difference, either good or bad.
Why did I keep them so long? 2 reasons. Hope and budget. I hoped that they would break-in and mellow. But the main reason I kept them for so long was $$$$. I wanted to stay in the DTs price range or better and after buying all of the other receivers and amps, the speakers were a bit lower on the list. Keep in mind that while the tonal balance wasn't what I was looking for, they were not a bad speaker at all and I still played a lot of music, movies and TV through them.
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[Bob_A]

they are in the same positions as the DTs were located

It is funny you mention this because I feel that the Def Tech bipolars should be placed differently than what "conventional wisdom" says. For music in particular, I think the Def Techs should be placed relatively close to each other (5-8 feet seems about right). They throw out such a big sound that if you place them too far apart it may sound...too big? Even though my DT's are only 4 feet apart (!) I couldn't imagine sitting much closer than 10 feet away from them!!! Interestingly, I do know someone who had gotten some bp10's and didn't find them to be "crisp" enough for his tastes...but when he heard the 2006TL's he thought they had the clarity and crispness which his 10's lacked (even though on paper the 2006TL should only be better in the bass w/ it's built in sub).
One thing about the nonpowered towers...they definitely need a lot of "good" current running through them to really sing especially if they aren't being used with a powered sub. I suspect you would have been happy with some beefy b&k amps?

 

[John H]

I believe the room dimensions, furnishings, placement restrictions etc... and user preference all factor into speaker placement. Although there are a few general guidelines to follow.
My main channel speakers are 12' from the listening position and the distance between their tweeters is 9' 3". They are toed in to converge directly at the center listening position. I use a laser tool for this. The are 14" from the front wall and 33" from the side walls. Their subwoofers are pointed out.
I have done much experimentation and this configuration is what works for me in my room.
John
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[Edited last by John H on August 14, 2001 at 10:00 AM]

 

[Hubert]

Bob, I hope my words didn't come off as uppity or as chastising someone for not liking Def Tech. But that guy offered nothing constructive. And comparing Def Tech to Yorx and other crap is just crazy. I understand some people don't like bipolars, and that is fine. But add something to the discussion. Tell why you don't like them. Coming in and making those 2 statements is simply unintelligent.
As for the Mirage system, I really like it. For movies, both he and I agree mine kills his, but then again I've got a pair of 3000s, a pair of 2000s and a CLR3000. I've also got a brand new Velodyne HGS-18. So of course it should. But his Mirage system can kick it as well on movies. On music, I would honestly have to say that the Mirage sysem is about equal. Maybe just a tad better. But when it comes to audio, the DT speakers need very careful placement and matching with gear that complements them. He has a new B&K AVR-307. So he's got an awesome setup. Mirage are fantastic speakers. I wouldn't hesistate to recommend them. But movies are my bag. And to me the Definitives are better, period. But both are very good. And I love the way the DT speakers sound on music.

 

[Bob_A]

Hubert I hear ya...I bet that you have "optimized" your system for movies...with a few changes I could easily see you really really loving the DT's for music. I was wondering: do you think the 2000TL's do music better than the 3000TL's, or are they about the same? Still in comparison to Mirage I think that once you factor in value (or bang for the buck) I think DT comes across as the clear winner (just MHO).

 

[Philip Hamm]

I have a Definitive Technology sub, a little teeny ProSub 100. I absolutely love it. The ability to accept speaker and line level simultaneously helps a great deal in my application. Their support has been fine and the craftsmanship is great. I couldn't be happier with it. As a famous rapper once said "versatile and flexible with Swiss Army precision".
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Philip Hamm
AIM: PhilBiker