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Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Samson, Aug 10, 2001.
What is the general opinion on Definitive Technology speakers ?
My personal opinion of Def Tech speakers is that they are great for both music and movies. I have had the BP 20s, CLR 1000 center for 9 years and the BPX surrounds for 2 years. I wouldn't trade them for anything.
They are really nice speakers but a little pricey. Also, I would have to say that if you are getting them, make sure that your room has very soft walls to absorb some of the reflections because they really have some bite with their "brightness".
If you look around, you can get 25% off of list, which makes them *very* competitive.
There have been other threads on HTF promoting the general fondness of people for their Def Techs. You might try the search function to dig up some of the past comments.
I have been using Def Tech for 8 years. I have toyed with the idea of switching to Paradigm, B&W, and Vandersteen (I have a Vandy sub), but to be honest, I like the soundstage and performance I have now.
BP-30's up front. BP-20's in back. CLR 2000 front center. And a C-1 for the back center.
Great for both music and movies.
(Used to have BP-2's in the back, but now my wife is using them for "stereo" home theater.)
I used to have an "all Def Tech" home theater speaker complement: BP-2000s and C/L/R 2000 up up front, and BP-20s for surround. It was a slammin' system for movie soundtracks, but I chose it by auditioning the BP-2000s for several hours over multiple visits to the dealeer with MUSIC ONLY. Since they did so well on music I am very familiar with, I was confident they would do justice to movie soundtracks as well. (I was right.) :>) As a test, I even configured the BP-20s for two channel music and they passed. And they are really great as full range surrounds. I did find as time went on that I really wanted deeper (not louder, but lower frequency extension) bass in my system so I added a Velodyne FSR-18.
Later, I upgraded my front speakers with some higher end planar speakers, which I chose primarily for music, with the intention of running two separate systems in the same room. But upon listening to a couple of movie soundtracks, I realized that the new speakers in combination with the subwoofer had sufficient dynamic slam to handle the soundtracks as well as doing a great job on music, so I retired my BP-2000s as front speakers, and subsequently got a new center to go with the new L/R mains.
But it is uncanny what a close timbre match the Def Techs are to the new planars, (even though many other characteristics are different), so I have kept using the BP-20s as the surrounds. And now that I have a seven channel pre/pro that supports DTS-ES and THX-EX, I am reconfiguring my home theater room to incorporate the BP-2000s as my back surrounds and the BP-20s as my side surrounds. Won't THAT be one hell of a setup! :>)
If you live in the Houston area, be sure to check out plans under way for the next local meet: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/uub/...ML/000260.html
Some like them, some don't. I'm in the latter category. That doesn't make them bad speakers. They simply don't fit my personal tastes. Try them out in YOUR home, on YOUR system and with YOUR music and movies and see how you like them. Good luck.
I was looking for small satellite size speakers, so I auditioned the Procinema 80's and 100's. I loved the sound, but wasn't so fond of the price so my wallet forced me to turn them down. It's very hard to find a decent deal for def techs since there are very few dealers that stock them. In fact, I have yet to find the procinema's a single cent below MSRP! These are the only speakers my local dealer's won't budge on!
[Edited last by Mike Kao on August 10, 2001 at 06:47 PM]
I bought DefTech after several months of auditions.
My criteria was simple: I wanted great HT speakers. So I decided to focus on the center speaker and once I found the best-sounding center, I'd buy the L/R's to match.
I went to test some DefTechs on a rainy Sunday. The dealer heard what I wanted, wheeled some towers into a demo room, showed me the equipment and then left, locking the door behind him so I would not be disturbed.
The system sounded very good, but I was listening to the 2002 towers with a small pro-cinema center. Good, but not earth-shattering.
In an adjacent room was a DefTech 3000 setup. It was almost frightning. I was playing around and noticed a speaker in a dark corner. I pulled it out and discovered it to be a CLR 2002 center. Much larger than the pro-center.
I dragged it back to the demo room, disconnected the rest of the speakers and re-did my demo tracks.
The speaker seemed to sit there and act like it did not know where all that sound was coming from. Several times I had to get up and check that other speakers were not working in the room. I heard some things from that speaker that other sets did not reveal. It sounded good when I was sitting, standing, sitting on the floor (a large "throw" is important to someone with a large family).
Closing my eyes I could NOT tell where the center was located (Many other centers acted like "point-sources" of sound which I did not want).
Now you must know that I WANTED that speaker to fail. I was in love with the Polk CS1000p center speaker (with a built-in sub). It was in the "high-end" demo room and it's price was $1000 for just the center. But that 2002 center was clearer and more detailed for less than half the price.
I walked out with a 2002 center and never looked back.
The bipolar towers from DefTech sounded GREAT for movies from the start. Given a bit of room, they really give you the feeling of being in a much larger space. In the movie U.S. Marshals there are scenes of a phone-conversation that flip between a stuffy office and the outdoors. The change in sound was like the walls suddenly exploding out, or imploding in. Very cool effect.
Unlike the others, I did not like my DefTech's for music at the start. I am not a big music fan and have rarely attended concerts so I was not used to large-amphitheater type of sound. But the large-room sound for a movie theater is very familar to me which is why the DefTechs sounded so good for movies. (Thanks to several people here I have made some adjustments and the speakers sound just fine to me now).
The bipolar speakers have some advantages:
- The big-room sound
- They help compensate for acoustic-challenged rooms
My dealer says that when customers come in and are trying to put speakers in a room with bare-wood floors, he only shows them the bipolar DefTech speakers. He has gotten other very good speakers (NHT and Paradigm) returned by customers with problem rooms. The DefTechs seem to work better.
Does this help?
Samson: You might be interested in this web site. It covers another persons search for speakers:
Dang it Bob. You have to pull out that Kenny page, don't you?
Kenny's site was the one I came across when I was putting together my first HT in 1997. At the time I already decided on the Onkyo 939 but had not listened to Def Tech for several years (first audition of the BP10 in 1991). After going back to my local dealer for audition I walked out with the BP2000Tl (BP2000, CLR2000, BPX) system on order.
After about two years running my HT admirably, I added an HGS-18 to the Def Tech's for the lowest LFE then later on turned my attention to plain 2 channel stereo music. Due to my room size & equipment proliferation the BP2000's were crowded b/w an RPTV and another pair of bigger speakers making placement adjustment for the best stereo music near impossible but they still excels in HT with close to full range front effects. For stereo music I now use a dedicated (soon to be two) system with different speakers and upstream equipment giving me better imaging & details esp with vocals.
[Edited last by PomingF on August 10, 2001 at 07:53 PM]
I'm running BP8 front and side speakers, a C1 center, and BP1 back surround speakers (I bought my first pair of BP8s before the powered towers, and if I were to repeat the experiece I'd still overlook the models with integrated sub-woofers because it's impossible to place for both good low-bass and the upper registers).
When I bought the first pair of BP8s ($800), I preferred the trade offs made over everything else in the ~$1000 price range I tried (B&W, NHT, Vandersteen). Those would be a wide sweet spot, sense of space, and deep tight bass against a bit of brightness, less precise imaging, and a shorter image.
Now that I can tolerate a smaller sweet spot and am running a sub I think I'd look elsewhere, especially if I were willing to spend more (I'm growing especially fond of Martin Logans)
Chalk me up as another satisfied Definitive owner. I had junky Pioneer speakers fresh out of college, and decided after a few years to open up my pocket books and upgrade. The dealer by me recommended the Definitives, and without hardly demoing them, I walked out with a pair of BP10s, a CLR1000, BP2s for the rear, and a Velodyne FSR15 subwoofer for a little over $3K (about 20% discounted).
The first time I listened to them in my home, it was like cotton was removed from my ears. On orchestra music, I could pick out every instrument and their location on the stage. To this day (5+ years and two new receivers later), I'm just as satisfied with my speakers.
Well, I'll put it to you this way. I make a good living. But even if I had Ted Turner's money, I would still by Definitive Technology. That ought to tell you how I feel about them.
As for the brightness that was mentioned, I guess with the wrong equipment, such as a cheap receiver, you may can get bright sound. But I've never heard Definitive Technology speakers described as being bright. And you certainly don't need a dead room if you pick your equipment right. I would describe them as neutral, or ever so slightly towards the warm side.
But some don't like the bipolar sound, and that's ok. Take a listen and decide for yourself.
They are amazing speakers. I know speaker preference is subjective, but anyone who says they dislike them with music probably has not heard them well set up and hooked up to well "matching" equipment. I have four feet of space in between my 2000TL's and they still sound superb...I have yet to hear better with music and I have listened to Martin Logan, Mirage, Dynaudio, etc.
The speakers should NOT come across as bright. This may be due to several factors. They must be fully broken in, they should ideally be hooked up to equipment which is neutral and does not emphasize brightness, they should not be kept too close to the rear or side walls, the front of the speaker should not be kept in the same plane as an rptv.
PF: initially I had my 2000TL's next to my rptv (on an even plane). When I moved them a bit in front of the rptv, any lingering brightness was gone...clear crisp highs now. With vocals...you need to experiment with degree of toe in (not too much toe in needed because tweeters are angled in if your subs are firing out). Also make sure that the bass levels on each speaker are the same and make sure that all the plugs are firmly in...I felt I was getting slightly less output from my left speaker compared to my right speaker...then I replugged everything and cleaned it up a little and all of a sudden the imaging improved, the bass was tighter, and most noticeably the vocals were extremely detailed, natural, and full sounding. I don't know what amp you have hooked up to them, and I know you have some room constraints...but I'm telling you with some slight adjustments you would love these speakers with music a lot (but of course my dspA1 factors into the overall musicality, as some receivers may not match so well).
And I disagree that people should discount the powered towers...this blending of highs/mids with lows is very seamless and of course the whole process is controlled by the manufacturer (particularly nice with music). You will certainly benefit from having an external sub(s)...but having a powered tower will give you the option of crossing over the speakers lower (some might want to do this). Also you can set them to "large" and have near full range speakers at certain positions augmented by an external sub(s). Finally these powered towers will work very well with dvd-audio/super audio where bass management is apparently bypassed and the signal can be sent to a near full range main.
It takes time and patience and attention to detail to set these speakers up...but when you do all this, you should be very very pleased!
I only have the CLR2000 right now. For various reasons I haven't bought the 2000TL's just yet. I did get the center so I could at least hear better voicing in movies. I couldn't believe the difference I heard. I think even my wife was impressed as she sometimes has trouble hearing voices in movies. If only a center makes this much difference I can't wait to get the 2000's. Go and listen to them. I auditioned many speakers before deciding on the Defs but your own ears will be the judge.
If you like the def-tec sound you may also try auditioning Mirages.
I have used several models of Definetive Technology speakers in my system over the years.
Original BP2000, BP200TL, C/L/R 2000, C/L/R 3000, BP2X, BPX, BPVX, BPVX/P and PF18TL.
I have driven them with the Yamaha 992, DSP-A1, Sunfire Cinema Grand, Anthem and several models of Parasound amplifiers. I have never found them to be excessivley bright sounding.
I find that Def Techs offer outstanding performance for HT as well as music.
Bedroom Based Theater
I love mine!
SVS 20-39 (pair) with the Fidek amp.
I chose this combo of Definitive speakers because all 5 have the same tweeters and midrange drivers. Some of the panning effects are startling.
"Why do I sense we've picked up another pathetic lifeform?"
About as bad as you can get. Does Yorx or Realistic ring a bell?
Gerald, even though my Def Tech experience isn't as glowing as John's or Bob's I wouldn't rate them @ or remotely close to your level of reference (I think I know what your brand preference is ). Yes, there are actually worst sounding 'speakers' than those you listed IMHO (e.g. the GPX brand sold @ places like K-M*rt or even B*se @ some of your local 'hi-fi' stores).
I see you just signed on to express your Def Tech impression. Hope your next speaker experience will be more positive.
Btw, Bob I just updated my equipment list on the forum.
[Edited last by PomingF on August 11, 2001 at 10:10 AM]