TWIN PEAKS: FWWM deleted scenes info (1 Viewer)

[John Sullmeyer]

Hell, they even went on the record here at a HTF chat session:

(PeterSenteris) Hi, I would first like to thank you for bringing us wonderful

editions of Magnolia, Se7en and Boogie Nights. I do not want to keep bringing

this up do you have an expected release date for Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me?

How long will you wait for the negotiations of the deleted scenes before deciding

to release a bare bones edition of the film and has David Lynch distanced himself

from the project?

(new_line) We do not have a release date or a timeline for breaking off

negotiations. The feature film video and audio has been approved by Mr. Lynch

and he has not distanced himself from this project.

Sounds like a bunch of bull to me.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

Well, since the choice was between releasing the movie now or never releasing it at all, New Line has made a wise decision, especially since this won't be a bare-bones disc.

 

[David Lambert]

I do believe I'll be waiting on FWWM. Here's why: I'm not gonna watch it anyway until after I watch the Season 2/Season 2a box sets. I want to watch it all in the intended order.
So let's just hold off on buying the version without the deleted scenes. Maybe when I'm ready to watch it, a version WITH those scenes will be, uh, on the scene.
If not, the version about to come in Feb. will still be around, right?

 

[Jacob_St]

Forget it. I've waited long enough for this film and I'm not waiting any longer. If this version tanks then there's no chance in hell that a special edition will ever be released. If a new version appears with the deleted scenes then I'll not hesitate to pony up and repurchase it.

 

[Ken_Pro]

I totally believe New Line when they say it's not about money.

CIBY 2000 is a French company. I know from working in rights and permissions in publishing that French companies are NOTORIOUS for slagging off on rights issues. They will completely ignore requests, so you can't even talk about money or terms or anything else.

I think they just didn't answer New Line's requests, didn't want to get into a discussion, and just plain didn't care.

 

[John Sullmeyer]

Lynch has been responding to fans in his chatroom on David Lynch.com saying that it was all about money, and that New Line didn't want to pay.

 

[John CW]

Lynch may not really know what's going on... even John Neff (Lynch's engineer) in his interview said they hadn't heard from New Line in a long time. Lynch is probably just jumping to the obvious conclusion... but WHY would New Line say is WASN'T about the money if it really was??
Also: WHY did they keep stringing fans along if the talks broke down a YEAR ago???
Damn this is extremely frustrating... and for those who don't know: These deleted scenes have been sought after for NINE years They have NEVER been seen by anyone and include characters and plot-lines from the series not included in the final cut...
For a show that ended on such a cliff-hanger EVERY new little clue/piece of story is cherished and welcomed. A lot of these scenes were also NOT even in the shooting script (this was confirmed at www.dugpa.com during an interview with New Line) so we can't even read about them.
It's such a shame that after all this time, and nearly ceaseless campaigning by fans, that New Line have given up and are trying to jump on the Twin Peaks band-waggon. Do they not realise that this has been waiting to happen for years already?? Do they honestly think that if they don't release it now the disc won't sell? The show has been dead for ten years but there is STILL an audience... would a couple have months REALLY changed anything?????
* sigh *
New Line... I am SO angry with you right now...
~ John

 

[Jeffrey Gray]

As Jacob_St said, all Twin Peaks fans should buy this, regardless of the fact that it's missing the deleted scenes. If it doesn't sell, it will be like Starman all over again. You know, "We're not releasing an SE because the first release didn't sell."

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

Lynch has been responding to fans in his chatroom on David Lynch.com saying that it was all about money, and that New Line didn't want to pay.

Well, Lynch says a LOT of things. I've read about a dozen Lynch statements over the years about many issues that I have serious doubts about... he always has talked of insanely long cuts of all his movies ("yeah, the first cut of dune was 9 hours...") yet people who have worked on the films has contradicted these statements time and again.

While I respect Lynch greatly as a filmmaker, I really do believe he is a bit of a nutcase. I recall one interview where he rallied against the unfair studio systems, and talked about how he'd like to just make movies that he never intended to release or show anywhere... but the unfair studios wouldn't let him. When the interviewer tried to point out that he could make those movies all day, but couldn't expect a studio to pay for it, he got upset and basically acted as if he had been personally insulted.

Anyway- I really think the guy is a few marbles short of a bag-- which makes from some great movies- but I wouldn't trust what Lynch has to say about anything involving reality.

-Vince

 

[Mark E J]

What do you think are the chances that CIBY2000 will release a "workprint" version of this film with all of the deleted footage added back in? Or release a seperate disc with just the deleted footage? I think all together there should be about 2hrs of scenes we've never seen.

 

[John Sullmeyer]

Ciby 2000 doesn't own the rights. It's owned by another French company called MK2.

And Vince, I know you mean well, but I would take Lynch's word any day over any major motion picture studio marketing executive.

 

[Ken_Pro]

MK2, then. It's still a French company. Seriously, I've tried to clear reprint rights with French copyright owners, and this is how they operate:

1. Doesn't respond to first query

2. Weeks later, they get a follow-up query

3. Months later they respond to it...with a question

4. Repeat 1-3

After a while you either have to give up or just use the material with a notice that "permissions were sought"...but that's dangerous because the French company hasn't been totally unresponsive...just incredibly slow and unhelpful.

New Line's doing the right thing here. Bring on the movie.

And Vince...that was a pretty dumb comment.

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

And Vince...that was a pretty dumb comment.

Pardon me? You make no rebuttle, no info to the contrary, and simply say my comments are dumb? You'll find that type of posting won't provide longevity around here. I'm not exactly sure what you point is, but I think everything I said above is pretty accurate.
Watch any interview with Lynch- and again I respect the man's work, but he can be a bit eccentric. I've seem him exaggerate more times than I could count, and every single time he talks about his relationships with studios he complains about money.
I think his comments quoted in the above chat room are a bit of assumption on Lynch's part, not any fact.
-Vince

 

[streeter]

We should have some French TP fans try to talk to MK2. There are a lot of French fans. They need to explain the fanbase that exists for this property. Say that all they have to do is say 'okay' and make a nice backend deal and they get money.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

If someone owns the rights to the materials, there is little anyone can do to stop them doing whatever they want with them, including Lynch. Unless he financed the film himself, chances are his involvement now holds little weight from a legal standpoint.

I'm going to sit this one out. If they get the materials some time down the road, great. If not, there will still be this release available. There are far too many other titles coming out to feel obligated into buying one that falls short of expectations.

 

[John CW]

Anyway- I really think the guy is a few marbles short of a bag-- which makes from some great movies- but I wouldn't trust what Lynch has to say about anything involving reality.

Vince that's an absurd and sweeping statement that is likely to upset many readers, you should know better. (If you need someone to tell you why then ask Parker Clack.)

Your efforts to back it up are vague at best, so I don't see why anyone else should have to back-up their arguments just for you. Half remembered recollections that you've probably exaggerated yourself ("I think he said Dune was originally 9 hours"). Even if it was verbatim then how do you know he wasn't speaking lightly and you're taking it out of context?

Excuse me for pointing out the obvious but is it not a little irresponsible to jump into the middle of a thread relating to a certain director's WORK (not the director himself) and tell everyone that he's "clearly a few marbles short of a bag" and that you don't think he is able to grasp or even discuss reality(!!) based on your recollection of a few interviews?

Is it not likely to upset a lot of people for no other reason than you "felt like it"? Your comment could easily be considered a "thread fart" -- as one of your moderating contemporaries once put it -- upsetting the discussion with irrelavant and contrary comments.

Nobody who has ever worked with Lynch as EVER described him in such a way (and I've read some pretty candid interviews). I think Mark Frost, Harley Peyton, Robert Engels, Nicholas Cage, Laura Dern, Kyle MacKlachlan, John Hurt, Anthony Hopkins, Sheryl Lee, Bill Pullman, Patricia Arquette et al know a bit more about the "real" David Lynch than you do. Mel Brooks said he was one of the nicest and most normal people he had ever met... (and he was expecting a freak after watching "Eraserhead") and that's a pretty famous quote, so you obviously haven't done your homework.

I agree that Lynch was probably making an ASSUMPTION, but if he can't say "I think this" or "I think that" on his own personal website, where can he? I personally don't think New Line have been in touch with him and he's making first logical assumption: New Line don't want to pay for the Hi-Def transfer, 5.1 re-mixing and scoring and, of course, the rights on top of that.

It was an INFORMAL consversation with a FAN and not an official statement meant to read as the gospel truth!

~ John

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

My apologies if I "upset" anyone- although I would feel comfortable in asserting that I'm one of the bigger Lynch fans in this conversation and probably on this forum.

I am amazed at how people can say that someone expressing their opinion is "irresponsible". I can think whatever I please about the mental state of anyone on the planet- certainly doesn't make me an expert.

I assumed, probably incorrectly, that anyone who is familar with Lynch, his work, and any of his writings would have come to the realization that the guy is a little bit "different"- certainly in a good way. However, as much as this type of artistic thought process inspires neat films, usually it doesn't lend itself to a sit down with david letterman, if you know what I mean.

I can think of a dozen examples of people who I am fans of who are a bit off kilter from the rest of the world- this is not intended to be insulting- rather just a reality of the situation at hand. I find it hard to believe that any serious Lynch fan would find the idea that he's a little left of center to be offensive, heck I would assume Lynch himself would be very happy to not be lumped in with the "sanity" of hollywood.

While I can't offer direct quotes, unfortunately (I wish I could find online interviews I've read in the past), I can say the following:

1) I have seen Lynch in multiple interviews discuss how confining he finds the studio system- and has more than once suggested that he's rather make films for his own amusement. He didn't seem to suggest WHY he couldn't make these films with his own money, rather complained that the studios wouldn't let him.

2) I have seen multiple interviews with lynch in which he suggested epic length cuts of Dune that were rejected by the studio. However reps from the studio have repeatedly said they never saw any 5 hour version, and any attempts to edit the actual existing footage into longer editions has met with resistance by Lynch.

3) If you read any interviews with Lynch, you can see the man clearly has a serious problem with the studio system- and possibly rightly so. However, he often uses strong terms like "sabotaged" to infer that the people financing his films are specifically trying to undo him.

Again- none of this is meant to be insulting to Lynch at all- I simply believe he has his own view of reality, as we all do- and often his seems at odds with "the studio" (and sometimes at odds with what others seem to recall).

As a result, I suggest that Lynch's insistance that new Line was refusing to pay for materials might be a bit off the mark- specifically given his previous inclination to blame the "studio" for many of the problems that have come his way.

Your comment could easily be considered a "thread fart" -- as one of your moderating contemporaries once put it -- upsetting the discussion with irrelavant and contrary comments.

Not even close.

If I drop in and say "Who cares about deleted scenes, FWWM sucked anyway"- that my friend would be off topic and dropping in for no good reason other than to fart.

However, contridicting the REASON these scenes aren't seeing the light of day is ENTIRELY on topic, and completely a valid issue in this thread. This comment is not at "irrelevant" as you put it, even if you don't personally like it.

Just as it is valid of anyone to suggest that they would trust Lynch's word over that of the studio, it is equally valid to point on that Lynch has a history of pointing the finger in the direction of "unjust" studios.

If you'd like to instruct myself or any other moderators on how the rules work around here- feel free to send me an email.

-Vince

 

[John CW]

I am amazed at how people can say that someone expressing their opinion is "irresponsible".

Don't be ridicules, this forum is not based on a "free for all say what you like to anyone" system, it is highly moderated and rightly so, otherwise discussions would reguarly sink into slagging matches and head way off topic. The people doing the moderating should be setting an example, which is why in your case I described your comments as irresponsible. I suspect you understand this but refuse to admit that your statement was a little too blunt for what you actually meant to say and could have easily been mis-construed (which it has been, twice, already).

Also, you try to back up your comments by trying to paint David Lynch as some sort of Klaus Kinski-style Hollywood-slagging rebel. This is a man who rather than slag off Kyle MacKlachlan, the man who's career he single handedly built, when asked how he felt when Kyle turned his back on Lynch and refused to act in certain scenes in the Twin Peaks series and not be fully involved with Fire Walk With Me, paused to smoke an entire cigarette before saying "I would never discuss such things".

I have never read anything about Lynch blaming the quality of Dune on anyone else, and always assumed the stories about him wanting a longer cut were fabricated. The only words I ever read Lynch discussing Dune said: "That's the only project where I failed".

The only time I've seen Lynch blame someone else is when the MPAA has come in and insisted on cutting scenes from his films (namely Wild at Heart and Blue Velvet). I fail to see where you get this image of Lynch going around unfairly slagging off executives and other people from, but would love to see some examples.

This particular case (with the FWWM DVD) is different though. He wants to do this for the fans, but he has nothing to lose: His vision for Fire Walk With Me is already out there exactly as he intended and I certainly don't think he's being bitter towards New Line -- why would he be?? I don't think that his so-called natural predeliction towards blaming "execs" is coming into play here... Anyone who knew the situation before the HiveMedia article would have thought exactly the same thing too! (I know I did.)

~ John

 

[Ken_Pro]

Thanks, John. You made my point a lot better than I could.

I also doubt that Lynch is tearing his hair out over this. From what I've read, he is happy with FWWM. It got a bad reception at Cannes, and I bet that upset him more than New Line ever could.

He should be happy with FWWM: it's a masterpiece.

Vince's point about Lynch vs. the studios was totally lost on me because Lynch hardly ever works with the big studios. He made Elephant Man with Paramount, and, well, that's it. DEG and New Line were independents at the time he worked with them. And now he gets his financing overseas.

Lynch has probably had it with TV executives, and who could blame him?

 

[Mark E J]

Doubtful, it is possible (and even likely) that Lynch has final cut on his films as part of his contract with CIBY2000, especially after his endless problems with longer cuts of DUNE- such a clause in his contract would cover the materials in question currently.

Perhaps, but it was my understanding that CIBY2000 owned the rights to the entire film with the exception of the distrubution rights of the theatrical cut which went to New Line. So I would assume whatever company that now owns the same rights could in theory release whatever version of the film they wanted so long as it wasn't what played in theaters.