Timeless New Acquisitions! (2 Viewers)

[Pathfiner]

depends on how promotable an old b/w show might be ? - and what the likelihood of sustained decent DVD sales worldwide might be...


with the color show TNOTG's restored episodes currently rerunning for the second time on COZI TV - some episodes posted on youtube recently too - and potentially re-screenable on today's TV worldwide - plus the regular cast (Gene Barry known from 'Bat Masterson', 'Burke's Law', 'The Adventurer' & 'War of The Worlds' - all out on DVD) Tony Franciosa known from 'A Face in The Crowd', 'Valentine's Day', 'Matt Helm', 'Search' (out on DVD), Robert Stack known from 'The Untouchables' (out on DVD) plus 'Most Wanted', 'Unsolved Mysteries', 'Airplane', 'The High & The Mighty' etc

and with supports who later became stars themselves (Susan Saint James; 'McMillan and Wife' - out on DVD, 'Kate and Allie' & Ben Murphy; 'Alias Smith and Jones', 'Gemini Man', both out on DVD)

with famous special guest leads: (Robert Wagner of 'Hart To Hart', Peter Falk of 'Columbo', Robert Culp of 'I Spy' & 'The Outer Limits',, Darren McGavin of 'Mike Hammer', 'Riverboat', & 'Kolchak' & Vera Miles of 'Psycho' etc - all out on DVD)


.... and featuring many internationallly known guest stars - plus the Steven Spielberg, Steven Bochco, Dean Hargrove, Leslie Stevens etc connection ( also 'cult' figure guests like Pete Duel, Sal Mineo, & writers like Phillip Wylie etc would interest their respective fanbases too) TNOTG would logically have a greater chance of selling on DVD worldwide these days than, say, a long offscreen show like 'Soldiers of Fortune' in b/w with an essentially 'forgotten' regular cast & lesser known guest cast etc


also does 'Soldiers of Fortune' have a Facebook page ? - or a thread on here etc ?


so I'd argue there WOULD indeed seem to be some logic in restoring & putting out an award winning influential color show like TNOTG (currently being screened in the USA), in preference to a b/w show like 'Soldiers of Fortune'

 

[Guy Foulard]

Soldiers of Fortune's release was probably also attributable to the preferences of Timeless in their pre-Shout! days. It was closer in theme to the westerns that made up most of their catalog than a show like TNotG.

 

[MaxMorrow]

so I'd argue there WOULD indeed seem to be some logic in restoring & putting out an award winning influential color show like TNOTG (currently being screened in the USA), in preference to a b/w show like 'Soldiers of Fortune'

I agree that putting in out The Name of The Game is a logical choice for a fan, but if what Neil has suggested is true (or even if it is greatly exaggerated) in terms of the money needed to make it happen, I seriously doubt that it's a logical choice for a business in this case.

 

[Pathfiner]

I don't doubt that is why they probably put it out - the 'western' type link - but as to how much it would have any wider poblic appeal or any longevity of sales compared to other more recent color shows is an arguable point


even if you are NOT a fan of a color award winning show with better known cast & guests and production staff figures it would probably have better sales potential overall


Amazon & Amazon.ca were very fast to advertise season one of TNOTG last year inviting for pre-orders, where as older b/w shows like 'Soldiers of Fortune' don't seem to be plugged as eagerly


the question of costs of restoration & 'clearances' applies to each older show put out on DVD too (look at the ongoing farce of a situation re 'The Fugitive' of late !) so if it's all down to purely a question of "business logic" re costs of restoration etc then it could be asked would that show have ever come out on DVD ?

 

[MaxMorrow]

I don't doubt that is why they probably put it out - the 'western' type link - but as to how much it would have any wider poblic appeal or any longevity of sales compared to other more recent color shows is an arguable point


even if you are NOT a fan of a color award winning show with better known cast & guests and production staff figures it would probably have better sales potential overall

If every video release cost exactly the same amount to license and produce and every studio had pristine copies of everything in their catalog, then that would mean something, and TNOTG would be the clear winner. But that doesn't appear to be the case based on my understanding of the topic, and so we have to take other things than just sales figures into account. An item selling "better" than another doesn't mean as much if the better seller has a smaller profit margin. And we also have to consider that as much as I and you and many people on these boards would like to have TNOTG released, there may not be as many like-minded people as we'd like to believe, or enough for this to be a logical/successful business decision.


In any case, I'm with you in that I do hope we have the opportunity to have this show at some point. But from the sounds of it, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[smithbrad]

I don't think anyone would question that there are many shows with a broader appeal then "Soldiers of Fortune" that haven't been put out yet. However, the point being that "Soldiers of Fortune" was available and the cost to get it out there fit in with an expected return on investment. It wasn't about how many sales it would have in comparison to something else, but just whether it would have enough sales to justify the release and make the projected profit, and obviously Timeless felt it could. Also, titles with readily available prints don't have the high upfront costs, so the overall risk is lower, which is especially important to smaller independents that can't support too many misses.


An example would be Peter Gunn, which was put out in the UK a few years back. The rights to the prints used in the UK were sold to another company in the US and Timeless made a deal with them to release it locally. The new prints were much better than the older A&E ones. This was a low risk release because the majority of the work had already been done. Another would be The Virginian where Encore paid for the transfers for broadcast that Timeless benefited from in DVD releases.


If a popular title hasn't been released at this point, it's not because no one wants to or it is being ignored. More likely it is because of high upfront cost to get it released, whether that be costs of transferring original elements because no other prints exist or complicated rights issues. I don't think it does any good to compare titles from a popularity standpoint to ask why this one and not that one because popularity and potential sales is only part of the equation.


As for The Fugitive, I'm sure CBS wasn't expecting the issues that occurred with all the releases, and they may be in the red at this point with the title as a result. But CBS has something independents don't, which is unlimited rights. They can make it up over future years of SD and HD syndication. If a title isn't respected enough for a studio to put out, it is hard to expect independents to pay the high costs of transfer and restoration for a limited window of return.


While it is unfortunate when a favorite is stuck in limbo from a fan perspective, but from a business view it just may not be feasible at this time.

 

[Professor Echo]

Soldiers of Fortune's release was probably also attributable to the preferences of Timeless in their pre-Shout! days. It was closer in theme to the westerns that made up most of their catalog than a show like TNotG.

This is too often forgotten when discussing Timeless, but shouldn't be. You can't use Timeless as a barometer of what vintage series may sell and what may not. It was a company driven by the vision of an owner who had certain tastes and pushed the direction of his product toward those specific preferences. In short, the guy loved westerns and did whatever he could to produce vintage western series on DVD, whether it sold or not. He wanted it. The non-western choices from Timeless were most likely an extension of his personal favorites as well, combined with what was available at what cost.


In that, they were a very unique company, one not geared for majority acceptance and potential profit, but for a playground of sorts to appease the man with the most money. So in a way it's unfair to have expected them to broaden their horizons when that never really seemed to be a part of their mission statement.

 

[Frank Soyke]

This is too often forgotten when discussing Timeless, but shouldn't be. You can't use Timeless as a barometer of what vintage series may sell and what may not. It was a company driven by the vision of an owner who had certain tastes and pushed the direction of his product toward those specific preferences. In short, the guy loved westerns and did whatever he could to produce vintage western series on DVD, whether it sold or not. He wanted it. The non-western choices from Timeless were most likely an extension of his personal favorites as well, combined with what was available at what cost.


In that, they were a very unique company, one not geared for majority acceptance and potential profit, but for a playground of sorts to appease the man with the most money. So in a way it's unfair to have expected them to broaden their horizons when that never really seemed to be a part of their mission statement.

Still waiting for that billionaire to emerge who just loves 60's one season sitcoms and hour long b/w 60's dramas...

 

[DeWilson]

The logic is, for Soldiers of Fortune, there was a set of black and white 16mm prints around for Timeless to use with little expense and for NOTG, no such elements exist and it would cost over a half million dollars to have new 35mm transfers made. Is that logical enough?

Did Timeless manage to find all the episodes of SOF on 16mm?

I personally know the person who sold them about 40 of the episodes on 16mm (Along with runs of some of the other MCA-TV shows on 16mm) but did Universal have the rest, or did they find them from other sources?

 

[LouA]

With the release of the Rebel, Timeless doesn't seem to have any new TV releases on it's schedule . Anyone know if they have anything planned ?
Same goes for the parent company Shout Factory in terms of classic television. It seems like SF always gave us at least one great B&W release a year like Route 66, Dobie Gillis , Sgt. Bilko, Kovacs , Leave It To Beaver , Mr Ed etc.
I'm just wondering if we've heard the last from both companies .

 

[Dave Lawrence]

The Bold Ones: The Protectors is scheduled to come out next week. Beyond that, I don't know of anything else right now.

 

[Richard Gallagher]

With the release of the Rebel, Timeless doesn't seem to have any new TV releases on it's schedule . Anyone know if they have anything planned ?
Same goes for the parent company Shout Factory in terms of classic television. It seems like SF always gave us at least one great B&W release a year like Route 66, Dobie Gillis , Sgt. Bilko, Kovacs , Leave It To Beaver , Mr Ed etc.
I'm just wondering if we've heard the last from both companies .

Apart from The Bold Ones: The Protectors later this month, I'm not seeing anything new on Shout's website, unless you include the McHale's Navy box set. I already have the complete series and the McHale's Navy movie, so I'm not going to double dip just for McHale's Navy Joins the Air Force.


Otherwise I'm just seeing single season releases of shows which already had complete series releases, such as The Saint.


Back when the ZIV shows were being released I had hopes for I Led 3 Lives, but I've given up and have been going through a set I found on eBay. The quality is mediocre but mostly watchable.

 

[Silverking]

Well, for me it was a sad day when Shout acquired Timeless & despite assurances at the time, Timeless has certainly declined. 'The Rebel' may have come out under the Shout banner but the deal to licence it had already been signed before the 'merger'.

I know at the time, that Timeless were trying to obtain the the rights to several other old b/w series but the merger knocked that on the head.

I think they may put out 'Death Valley Days' next year.

 

[Regulus]

I think they may put out 'Death Valley Days' next year.

Considering what happened last year I'll take this with a grain of salt.

 

[bmasters9]

Apart from The Bold Ones: The Protectors later this month, I'm not seeing anything new on Shout's website, unless you include the McHale's Navy box set. I already have the complete series and the McHale's Navy movie, so I'm not going to double dip just for McHale's Navy Joins the Air Force.

That was the same kind of thing that was said about the Brady Bunch, M*A*S*H, and MacGyver full releases-- all three were purchased season-by-season, so why should they be purchased again in the full release just to get the major bonuses? Fortunately, Paramount listened on MacGyver (releasing the movies as a separate disc), and FOX listened on M*A*S*H (releasing the finale and assorted bonuses in a separate two-disc set, I believe), so that leaves The Brady Bunch as the only one of those that has not had a separate release of its bonuses.

 

[FanCollector]

Mission: Impossible, The Wild, Wild West, and other Paramount sets have also not had separate releases of bonus content. Sadly, MacGyver is the exception for them, rather than the rule.

 

[smithbrad]

Considering what happened last year I'll take this with a grain of salt.

I don't remember anyone saying there would be a release of "Death Valley Day's" to DVD last year. All I recall was mention that someone was having the prints remastered. And that would appear to have been Encore for broadcast purposes. Now that there are quality prints available it would stand to reason that someone would pick up the rights for a DVD release. Hopefully, the B/W episodes were done along with the color episodes and that Encore just chose to start their broadcast with the color one's first. I'd like to see a DVD release include restored B/W epsiodes.

 

[LouA]

I don't remember anyone saying there would be a release of "Death Valley Day's" to DVD last year. All I recall was mention that someone was having the prints remastered. And that would appear to have been Encore for broadcast purposes. Now that there are quality prints available it would stand to reason that someone would pick up the rights for a DVD release. Hopefully, the B/W episodes were done along with the color episodes and that Encore just chose to start their broadcast with the color one's first. I'd like to see a DVD release include restored B/W epsiodes.

Because Death Valley Days and Our Miss Brooks were both re mastered recently for TV, some of us hoped that might translate into a DVD release for each show. I knew it was pretty much a long shot , but truthfully , since both shows are newly re mastered it's something that's still possible. No master issues there. Those shows would be consistent with the type of release we used to expect from both companies. Not likely to happen, but something to "dream" about.

 

[smithbrad]

I think "Death Valley Day's" has a decent shot at a DVD release. but based on the tone of the response and previous responses I think some may have figured it was already announced when it wasn't.

 

[Frank Soyke]

I'm not sure why Shout even bought them out to be honest with you. It's not like it's the old traditional "let's buy the competition to put them out of the business" transaction. Timeless was releasing totally different material (Westerns/some early b/w dramas) than Shout and not taking any of the market they were aiming at. Way different demographic than what Shout was marketing to (70-80's sitcoms/dramas) It seems like they just bought them for the sole purpose of putting the brand effectively out of the market as evidenced by the fact they have done little with it. The Rebel release appears to more an exception than a rule at this point.

Damn shame if you ask me.