The Marvels (2023) (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Cooper]

Except that at the end of WandaVision they showed Wanda exploring the Darkhold, and that was quite ominous.

Multiverse of Madness then shows and tells us that using the Darkhold corrupts the user. I agree that they should have focused more on showing her being corrupted by the book, if even in flashback if they wanted to keep it a surprise for the audience until Strange figures it out. But the logic and explanation is all right there even if some don’t like it.

I liked it, but I know others didn’t. I feel like I got both the how and the why while for others is wasn’t enough. The movie would have benefited from putting more script effort into bridging that gap.

Oh, I understand that completely. The problem is it's literally a 10 second scene at the very end of the entire series. That that 10 second scene would lead to undoing the entire plot and journey we went on with her through the whole series and do it off-screen is just bad planning / writing. And insulting to her character as well. I mean sure the Darkhold corrupts. But at least have it corrupt her in some different way. To have her become the villain by falling to literally the exact same demons she had just proven herself capable of overcoming is just plain stupid.

 

[Joe Wong]

But I think just viewing it scene will answer it because I really feel that I saw something in a box that was Carol’s stuff.

EDIT: And as others mentioned, it would seem odd for the Khans to leave their community in Jersey City to move to Louisiana.

That plate showing Carol and Prince Yan was in one of the moving boxes.

 

[Sean Bryan]

That plate showing Carol and Prince Yan was in one of the moving boxes.

And there we go.

 

[Sean Bryan]

Oh, I understand that completely. The problem is it's literally a 10 second scene at the very end of the entire series. That that 10 second scene would lead to undoing the entire plot and journey we went on with her through the whole series and do it off-screen is just bad planning / writing. And insulting to her character as well. I mean sure the Darkhold corrupts. But at least have it corrupt her in some different way. To have her become the villain by falling to literally the exact same demons she had just proven herself capable of overcoming is just plain stupid.

I wouldn’t call it stupid. It’s human. People’s struggles with personal demons are rarely resolved in one epiphany and never trouble them again. People have ups and downs. And in this case, the book preyed on that.

Again, no argument that they shouldn’t have spent more time on that and portrayed it more clearly. They should have.

But 838 Strange was corrupted by it to the point of being responsible for the destruction of another universe, and when he recognized the risk he now represented he had the Illuminati kill him.

If Wanda didn’t have the Darkhold, she never would have went off the deep end like that. But she did have it, and its evil, corrupting influence was the reason. I really would have loved another 10-15 minutes exploring that at the start (or spread throughout in flashbacks). Missed opportunity that they didn’t milk the drama of that further. Just like the missed opportunities in the script for The Marvels.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

If Wanda didn’t have the Darkhold, she never would have went off the deep end like that. But she did have it, and its evil, corrupting influence was the reason. I really would have loved another 10-15 minutes exploring that at the start (or spread throughout in flashbacks). Missed opportunity that they didn’t milk the drama of that further. Just like the missed opportunities in the script for The Marvels.

The Marvels is definitely very substantially weaker than that Dr Strange flick though...

_Man_

 

[Jake Lipson]

The Pitch Meeting video is here. Spoilers, so don't click on the video if you don't want to know.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The Marvels is definitely very substantially weaker than that Dr Strange flick though...

_Man_

While it didn't hit the heights of the Doctor Strange sequel at its most inventive, it also didn't sink to the lows of the Doctor Strange sequel at its most frustrating.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

While it didn't hit the heights of the Doctor Strange sequel at its most inventive, it also didn't sink to the lows of the Doctor Strange sequel at its most frustrating.

I think it got right more than it got wrong - I loved the shorter running time and the fun tone that was maintained through much of the film. Where I think it faltered was trying to infuse world-ending stakes in what was mostly a “buddy comedy”/“heroes solving a pesky dilemma”. I think the plot line of our heroes having their powers entangled, causing them to change places and swap into each other’s very different lifestyles, was infinitely more compelling than any of the villain stuff. I don’t think the film really needed a villain. Had they focused solely on “we have this problem with our powers and we need to get them fixed so we can get back to our lives and business as usual,” that would have been more than enough for me.

One of the things I used to like about being a comic book reader back in the day was how the stakes in each new comic weren’t always equal. Sometimes there was a big problem to solve, sometimes there was just a nuisance problem to solve. I think the films would be better served if they picked up on that a bit more than they do. There was no reason for a generic CGI battle for the sake of the world at the end of this otherwise lighthearted comedy. And I don’t see why this needed to cost $250 million either. The elements that cost the most were the least necessary.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I think my biggest problem with it is that the world didn't feel like it had any weight.

All of the stuff between the three heroes really worked for me. But Earth basically didn't exist beyond the Khan family's living room. The space station only existed to be a backdrop for action sequences. And the alien worlds mostly only exist long enough to be destroyed or saved.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

…which shows how unnecessary those things were to the story and makes a great argument, in my view, from stripping them out of the narrative.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Incidentally, Zawe Ashton, who plays the villain here, is Tom Hiddleston's significant other. They did Betrayal together in the West End and on Broadway in 2019. That cast also featured Charlie Cox.

Of course, this doesn't have anything to do with the movie itself. But it's interesting to think about his material versus her material. Loki is one of the most memorable and exciting villains the MCU has ever had, and here comes Ashton and she's probably the worst. This isn't a knock on her at all as a performer. This movie just doesn't give her anything of significance to do.

 

[Wayne_j]

Yes, the actress was pretty good, unfortunately the writing made her completely forgettable.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Vellani's comic book series that she mentioned in this interview is being collected in a paperback for release on March 19.

 

[Joe Wong]

It’s a pity this film is failing at the box office, as it might mean no more “solo” films for Captain Marvel.

We have discussed some of the potential reasons (the quality of the film aside).

1. The title being The Marvels, rather than Captain Marvel: XXXXX.

This meant many may not have known this was a Captain Marvel film.

2. The inclusion of 2 heroes from D+ shows. This may be a big factor in terms of audience recognition.

3. While the film was “fun” and “breezy”, I read an article a week ago that said a better story would have been Captain Marvel: Secret Invasion.

I think this could, indeed, have been the better follow-up for the original film. Secret Invasion was a major event in the comics (if I understand correctly), and the D+ adaptation was a travesty. It killed off 2 fan favourite characters and ended up with an overpowered being.

CM: Secret Invasion would have been a natural follow-up to the story in CM, and be able to provide the necessary heft to both Carol’s character trajectory as well as the Skrull invasion. Kind of like how Winter Soldier gave heft to Cap’s arc. One could still have Monica and Kamala be part of the film, but they would essentially be introduced to movie-only audiences here, like how Sam Wilson was introduced in Winter Soldier, rather than sharing the focus with Carol. Focus on Carol and Fury - that’s who the audiences know. Again, that was a missed opportunity.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

 

[Tino]

as it might mean no more “solo” films for Captain Marvel.

Might???

 

[Jake Lipson]

the quality of the film aside

I don't think you can put the quality of the film aside. The rest of your points are valid but could have been overcome if the film clicked with the audiences who did come out to see it.

If the movie had been really good, word of mouth from people who saw it and loved it could have made up for the title confusion and helped encourage more people who didn't watch the shows to give it a shot in subsequent weekends. Word of mouth is worth a lot when a movie is good. Wakanda Forever played during this time period last year and had good legs because it was pretty well-received. But that's not what happened here.

Instead, the word of mouth has been mostly bad. So people who might have gone later if word of mouth had been extremely positive are instead hearing that they shouldn't bother. So Disney got the largest drop-off in MCU history (-78%.)

When Black Widow came out in July 2021, I went to the theater on opening night and masked up and watched it. Then I bought it on Disney+ and rewatched it from home. I valued going out and seeing it on the big screen for my first viewing, but there was no reason to do that afterwards. Being available at home simultaneously definitely impacted its repeat performance at the box office. The fact that Marvels is not available at home right now and still had a bigger second weekend drop than Black Widow (-68%) is especially telling about just how big Marvel missed the mark with this particular movie.

Might???

Maybe I'm being willingly naive here because I like Brie Larson, but I still think Carol has untapped potential as a character. It would take some serious damage control, though. If the next big crossover is outstanding, and Carol has a significant role to play in it, that would be a start. They would also have to make sure any future solo film was absolutely top-tier, which neither of Carol's films have been thus far. So that's a lot of "if"s and I am totally aware that fulfilling them all is unlikely. But I still hope don't throw away the character.

 

[Joe Wong]

I don't think you can put the quality of the film aside. The rest of your points are valid but could have been overcome if the film clicked with the audiences who did come out to see it.

If the movie had been really good, word of mouth from people who saw it and loved it could have made up for the title confusion and helped encourage more people who didn't watch the shows to give it a shot in subsequent weekends. Word of mouth is worth a lot when a movie is good. Wakanda Forever played during this time period last year and had good legs because it was pretty well-received. But that's not what happened here.

Instead, the word of mouth has been mostly bad. So people who might have gone later if word of mouth had been extremely positive are instead hearing that they shouldn't bother. So Disney got the largest drop-off in MCU history (-78%.)

When Black Widow came out in July 2021, I went to the theater on opening night and masked up and watched it. Then I bought it on Disney+ and rewatched it from home. I valued going out and seeing it on the big screen for my first viewing, but there was no reason to do that afterwards. Being available at home simultaneously definitely impacted its repeat performance at the box office. The fact that Marvels is not available at home right now and still had a bigger second weekend drop than Black Widow (-68%) is especially telling about just how big Marvel missed the mark with this particular movie.

I agree with your point regarding the quality (or lack of), and subsequent word-of-mouth, for the 2nd weekend.

I should have clarified that I was offering reasons more for its low opening weekend (the worst MCU opening weekend ever), which was indicative of its poor box office in general.

Once it had that low opening, it was 90+% unlikely to recover, as such a low opening is its own negative word-of-mouth. Unless, like you mention, the audience reception was positive. But as we’ve seen with the 2nd weekend, there was little of that.

The reasons why fewer people went to the opening weekend should be less related to quality (since most people haven’t seen it yet). Maybe a portion who were intending to see it on opening weekend (eg. on Sunday) changed their minds from reviews or word of mouth. But other reasons could be lack of interest (eg. title-related), lack of recognition (D+ heroes), poor marketing, etc., which is what I was offering.

 

[Joe Wong]

Might???

I don’t want to speak for Marvel Studios.

 

[Malcolm R]

The fact that Marvels is not available at home right now and still had a bigger second weekend drop than Black Widow (-68%) is especially telling about just how big Marvel missed the mark with this particular movie.

All the press about potential and actual disappointing performance at the box office also lowers its profile to a film that many will wait and watch at home, knowing these films appear fairly quickly on D+. If that was not an option that Disney had worked so hard to condition everyone to expect over the past couple years, more might make the effort to get to a theater.

 

[Joe Wong]

Maybe I'm being willingly naive here because I like Brie Larson, but I still think Carol has untapped potential as a character. It would take some serious damage control, though. If the next big crossover is outstanding, and Carol has a significant role to play in it, that would be a start. They would also have to make sure any future solo film was absolutely top-tier, which neither of Carol's films have been thus far. So that's a lot of "if"s and I am totally aware that fulfilling them all is unlikely. But I still hope don't throw away the character.

The following interview is encouraging for Carol going forward.

Brie Larson Teases Carol Danvers' Future in the MCU (Exclusive)

Following the release of 'The Marvels,' Larson told ET that there is 'so much more to go' for her character, Captain Marvel.

www.etonline.com