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So, I finally started watching Battlestar Galactica (1 Viewer)

Paul_Scott

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Originally Posted by Sam Favate

I also found many similarities to Lost, particularly in the way both shows ended.


Warning: Spoilers for Lost and BSG here.


Both shows ended with too much reliance on faith. What drew us in to these stories in the first place was the dedication to realism and the intensity of the plots and the way they unfolded in dramatic, yet logical fashion. In end, in both cases, we're left with several things that are not explained in any way other than some quasi-spiritual explanation. Even The Force had a more detailed and easily explained construction (midiclorians notwithstanding).



Nevertheless, I ultimately liked the BSG finale, and found it as satisfying - if not more so - than Lost's. BSG earned its place among the very finest shows ever on TV, and certainly among the top tier of science fiction shows. FWIW, I think the BSG writers kept it together more than the Lost writers did, although I enjoyed both shows.

I walked away with exactly the same impression from both. And I totally disagree with Travis on how they diverge. Both of these properties had an end date stipulated by the creative team behind them well in advance of their expiration. Both shows were also sold to the public as having a master plan in place, a concept which the specified end dates only bolstered. Both these shows, going into their final seasons, had the confidence of their audiences that the creative minds shepherding them were working with a specific structure and resolution and were not merely making it up as they went along.

And in both instances, this wasn't the case. The last (couple) of seasons of both are very problematical- full of flab and running in place- and neither show ends with the same values it started with.


In the case of BSG, what bothered me most of all in the finale was that the most momentous decisions undertaken at the end are met with ZERO conflict. All 30,000 or whatever survivors are fully on board with every massive way-of-life ending decision made by a small group of military brass (some of which have turned out to be Cylons). The show is suddenly in such a hurry to go out and wrap everything up nice and neat, that the massive implications of what has gone down in the post new Caprica never register. Logical, rational, unpleasant cause and effect only intermittently applies anymore. In fact, Logicial behaviour frequently goes out the window after Kara shows up.

I won't even begin to try to address the WTF absurd importance of a Bob Dylan song to the survival of the human race. At that point, anyone who misses the early days of the show can't help but throw up your hands and say "whatever".


And what is up with Adama Sr suddenly wanting to live on a mountain top alone with the remains of his girlfriend? This show started off with him feeling the acute pain of the distance his career and lifestyle had left between him and the last close family member to him and laboring to make amends. It would have been far more satisfying to see him in a flash forward of 5-10 years sitting in a chair as a grandchild frolics around. A flash forward would also give us some kind of sense of how society is developing (or devolving) under the circumstances and give implications of what the near future will hold. Something like that would have been worthy of the first couple seasons. Instead we just get Fantasy Island. You just drop down into an unknown and potentially hostile environment and your first impulse is to as much distance between yourself and any other people? Puhleeeeezzze.


Reading as Ron made his way through the series reminded me of how great this show initially was- something I had a hard time doing in the wake of the finale and last season.
 

hampsteadbandit

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Reading as Ron made his way through the series reminded me of how great this show initially was- something I had a hard time doing in the wake of the finale and last season.


Paul, this is the problem with BSG as a "complete" series - the ending is weak-sauce


If I watch "The Wire" and "The Shield", these shows got better, and better as they progressed, with extremely powerful endings that rewarded the viewer who has invested 100s of hours of their life watching all the seasons!



I have watched The Wire twice, and have an urge to re-watch The Shield, to expierience the awesome finale once again, after a long build up


If I re-watch BSG, I only want to watch the Mini-Series (which I have seen 6 times!), Seasons 1 and 2, and early elements of S3, and Razor, as the ending / finale totally sucked and showed up the lack of talent writing and producing the finals seasons :(
 

Ronald Epstein

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Rob,


Glad I made the decision to come clean on my

feelings about this show. There seems to be

wide agreement.


I have now recommended BSG to a lot of my

friends I work with, but warned them that only

the first 3.5 seasons are worthy of the hype.
 

Randy Korstick

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Glad you enjoyed the show Ron. For me only the first 2.5 seasons lived up to the hype. I struggled with the differences from the original series but finally got past them and after the excellent 2nd season I finally thought I may have found another Babylon 5 but it was not to be the case. After they left the planet early in Season 3 the show was all down hill for me and the ending very anti-climatic. I will definately not purchase the show and have doubts if I will ever revisit it. It would be a difficult show for me to reccomend even though I did find the mini-series and Season one pretty good and Season 2 excellent.
 

Will_B

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Originally Posted by Paul_Scott

And what is up with Adama Sr suddenly wanting to live on a mountain top alone with the remains of his girlfriend? This show started off with him feeling the acute pain of the distance his career and lifestyle had left between him and the last close family member to him and laboring to make amends. It would have been far more satisfying to see him in a flash forward of 5-10 years sitting in a chair as a grandchild frolics around.

I think ultimately, despite his best intentions, Ron Moore's own personality overshadowed that of Bill Adama in the last episodes. I'm just guessing of course, but if you look at Moore, he wears a beard which is often a sign of an antisocial person (sorry, just speaking as a general rule, I know there are many exceptions!), and he has his scotch & cigar ceremony (as seen in his podcasts) which is an "accepted" way of withdrawing from one's wife and family, etc. I don't know him, obviously, but I read him as a person who wouldn't be able to relate to Bill's love. He related to Bill's detachment in the early seasons, much more strongly. In my opinion.
 

Jonathan Peterson

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I will definately not purchase the show and have doubts if I will ever revisit it.
Yeah, this is how I feel at times too. I am kind of torn as their are some episodes, "33" from season 1 for example that are just so outstanding. Another episode "Crossroads" when Baltar is on trial, the scene where Lee recounts what he had to do in said episode "33". Powerful stuff. But then you have the whole Baltar cult, 5th Cylon, weird warp person mumbling, etc...


I guess if I see the Blu complete set for a really good reduced price, I may pick it up. But for major rewatchability, to me it is no Star Trek or Lost or Babylon 5.
 

Timothy E

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Originally Posted by Paul_Scott
In the case of BSG, what bothered me most of all in the finale was that the most momentous decisions undertaken at the end are met with ZERO conflict. All 30,000 or whatever survivors are fully on board with every massive way-of-life ending decision made by a small group of military brass (some of which have turned out to be Cylons). The show is suddenly in such a hurry to go out and wrap everything up nice and neat, that the massive implications of what has gone down in the post new Caprica never register. Logical, rational, unpleasant cause and effect only intermittently applies anymore. In fact, Logicial behaviour frequently goes out the window after Kara shows up.


I won't even begin to try to address the WTF absurd importance of a Bob Dylan song to the survival of the human race. At that point, anyone who misses the early days of the show can't help but throw up your hands and say "whatever".


And what is up with Adama Sr suddenly wanting to live on a mountain top alone with the remains of his girlfriend? This show started off with him feeling the acute pain of the distance his career and lifestyle had left between him and the last close family member to him and laboring to make amends. It would have been far more satisfying to see him in a flash forward of 5-10 years sitting in a chair as a grandchild frolics around. A flash forward would also give us some kind of sense of how society is developing (or devolving) under the circumstances and give implications of what the near future will hold. Something like that would have been worthy of the first couple seasons. Instead we just get Fantasy Island. You just drop down into an unknown and potentially hostile environment and your first impulse is to as much distance between yourself and any other people? Puhleeeeezzze.

Paul, I had exactly the same thoughts about the finale as you did. It made no sense to me with the progression of Adama's character that he would decide to go native and live as a hermit. It was absurd that there was such volatile conflict in the fleet regarding decisions less profound than the final one to strand humanity on the planet (especially after the debacle of New Caprica), and yet there was no apparent objection from anyone regarding this momentous (and irrational) decision.


Adama's self-imposed exile reminded me somewhat of Arthur Dent's decision to go native on prehistoric Earth in the Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy novels (although Arthur did not have much of a choice whereas Adama made his choice).
 

TravisR

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Originally Posted by Timothy E
It made no sense to me with the progression of Adama's character that he would decide to go native and live as a hermit.


I always thought of it that he had had enough and wanted to retire to a place that was peaceful and quiet after years of genocide and destruction.


It's been a while since I've seen the episode but does he actually have to be a hermit? I know he's living solo in the cabin but couldn't he just be living off the beaten path from a nearby colony?
 

Will_B

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Spoilers


Some fans theorized that he wasn't even going to build the cabin that he planned to build and live in with his girlfriend, he was going to shoot himself a few moments after we see him last, and that's why he said farewell to his friends and family and said that he going off alone.


So if there was supposed to be some happiness there, the show didn't do a good job conveying it.
 

TravisR

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Originally Posted by Will_B
So if there was supposed to be some happiness there, the show didn't do a good job conveying it.


It's certainly a bittersweet moment for Adama but it's not the episode's fault that some fans want to put a dark spin on it. As far as I'm concerned, he finally got to rest after all the years and that's the best thing that could happen to him.
 

Sam Favate

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Originally Posted by TravisR



It's certainly a bittersweet moment for Adama but it's not the episode's fault that some fans want to put a dark spin on it. As far as I'm concerned, he finally got to rest after all the years and that's the best thing that could happen to him.

I agree with that. He had the weight of the survival of humanity on his shoulders for so long, with even his trusted associates turning on him (Gaeta) or turning out to be something other than what he thought they were (Tigh). Given those circumstances, I'd go live in the mountains or the trees too.
 

Brandon Conway

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I'll just say that I think the show works 100% perfectly for my sensibilities. I, frankly, loved every minute of it, and the "worst" episode is a 7/10 for me.


I actually feel the final 2 seasons are the strongest of the show. There's a maturity of family drama there that sci-fi doesn't typically venture into. Yes, the first two seasons of RUN RUN RUN RUN are great - but you can only do that so long and remain relevant. I like stories that see open sores and poke sticks at them, and then allow the reflex to that instigation occur.


I know people get upset that there are "unexplained" elements in regards to how some things happen ("God", the angels, Starbuck). The way I look at it is this: a cat simply will never understand algebra, and humans will simply never understand the unexplained elements of BSG. I happen to like a little ambiguity in these matters. One can explore themes and concepts without getting the full final answer and still be satisfied. The main point of satisfaction and conclusion that needed end points were the main characters and getting "home", Anything else more than that is trying to get answers for what are ultimately questions without solid answers (what is faith? what is God?).


As for the people agreeing to lay down technology - eh, these people had been through total hell 100x over. Many of them will probably regret that decision immediately, but I buy the initial effort and hope as taking place. It was sold as their only chance, and they were in a state of exhaustion and relief and made a bold move. Stranger things have happened in real life. Who would have thought the Nazis could be so dominant in spreading their ideology, or that the American Revolution - really only wanted by maybe 20% of the colonial population - would work on behalf of the majority in the late 1700s?
 

TravisR

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Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
I actually feel the final 2 seasons are the strongest of the show. There's a maturity of family drama there that sci-fi doesn't typically venture into. Yes, the first two seasons of RUN RUN RUN RUN are great - but you can only do that so long and remain relevant.


I enjoy the first two seasons more than the second two but I agree that changing things up was a good idea. They left me wanting more rather than wearing itself out but crossing over into repetition.
 

RickER

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Originally Posted by Brandon Conway

As for the people agreeing to lay down technology - eh, these people had been through total hell 100x over. Many of them will probably regret that decision immediately, but I buy the initial effort and hope as taking place. It was sold as their only chance, and they were in a state of exhaustion and relief and made a bold move. Stranger things have happened in real life. Who would have thought the Nazis could be so dominant in spreading their ideology, or that the American Revolution - really only wanted by maybe 20% of the colonial population - would work on behalf of the majority in the late 1700s?

I couldn't tell if they even kept a shovel, saw, or anything else to help build a shelter. Forget about weapons for hunting and self defense. Anything to wear when it gets cold?


You know, it would be one thing if you just didn't have it, like the Pilgrims. But if you had it, and tossed it aside so you could be one with nature...well...you might not last a week, much less the winter!


I would hang on to a few nice things, especially if it was all you had, and the last of its kind. Just in case i needed it in some unforeseen event.
 

Will_B

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I do have to hand it to the show that they put some supreme misdirection in the search for Earth by referencing the Eye of Jupiter so much as they neared our part of space. I couldn't have been the only one who expected that after Starbuck descended into that weird storm, that she'd go through a wormhole and pop out of Jupiter's Great Red Spot, was I?
 

Brandon Conway

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Originally Posted by RickER


I couldn't tell if they even kept a shovel, saw, or anything else to help build a shelter. Forget about weapons for hunting and self defense. Anything to wear when it gets cold?


You know, it would be one thing if you just didn't have it, like the Pilgrims. But if you had it, and tossed it aside so you could be one with nature...well...you might not last a week, much less the winter!


I would hang on to a few nice things, especially if it was all you had, and the last of its kind. Just in case i needed it in some unforeseen event.

Just because it wasn't explicit doesn't make it not happen. They were still wearing their clothes after all, so obviously their "back to nature" concept didn't go to that extreme. I thought it was pretty clear that they shunned electronics based technology, not tools and mechanical based technology that is centuries old by our standards. Basically, they went back to the equivalent to our 17th century or so is the way I took it.
 

kowalski65

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I notice a few people took issue with my dubbing the "re-imagined" series "Battlestar Politically Correctica." Probably not the best name, but it had a certain lilt to it.

Let me apologize and explain a bit about my objections. Please understand, I am likely a generation older than most of you posting here (but maybe not.)

The "re-imagined" series - as is the case with almost everything that has come out of Hollywood the past 20 years - lacks moral clarity. In the days of the REAL Battlestar Gallactica, you always knew who the good guys were and who the bad guys were. Frank Capra helped defeat the Nazis with his craft.

Now, the progenitors of culture consider it their duty to accentuate "coolness," to saturate every situation with edgy violence and sexuality and to assault the main stream at every opportunity.

But what REALLY annoys me is when franchises (movies, TV, comics) are misappropriated and turned into something they were never intended to be. If someone wants to produce and someone wants to imbibe a dark, moody, new Age, gender-bender "space opera," let'em do it. I have the option to ignore it. But why in the HELL do they have to capitalize on a known commodity, and turn it into their own frustration toy? Had they called it, "Space Sucks," no problem. Go for it!

It happens way too much. Other "re-imaginings" include "The Defenders" - taking a marvelously acted, socially relevant courtroom drama and turning it into a James Belushi clown car - "Lost in Space" - watchable only for the nostalic tug of hearing Dick Tufeld reprise the voice of the Robot - "A-Team" - haven't seen it yet - and just about every primary Marvel and DC character.

I understand the idea of "re-imagining" "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" is being kicked around. Please - GOD! - don't let'em do it!!

Please! If you can't do something original, don't bastardize someone else's work!

I guess to sum it up, just because something is "new," doesn't make it good (though the converse, also, is true.)

Again, I apologize for ralphing all over a show so many of you like. I'll get out of here and go back to my thread about the release of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea DVDs.
 

Harry-N

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Originally Posted by kowalski65


Let me apologize and explain a bit about my objections. Please understand, I am likely a generation older than most of you posting here (but maybe not.)

I'm probably in that same older demographic (to put it in the more politically correct term), turning 60 within the next year. And though I don't want to dredge up old arguments, I will say that I found the new BATTLESTAR GALACTICA quite entertaining - and I generally hate modern reboots - and I still enjoy the old show too.


As for VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA, I'll probably dislike any attempt at a reboot there, as we discussed in that thread. I can just imagine a Captain Leigh Crane being female, Harriman Nelson being a rogue anti-establishment type, and several of the Seaview crew being gay. Not that there's anything wrong with any of those things, but they don't belong in VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA, IMHO.


I was fairly impressed with Fox's TIME TUNNEL reboot pilot. I thought it had some interesting promise in spite of changing Tony Newman into Toni Newman - at least Andrea Roth was easy on the eyes! I liked the idea of the "240" and the changes in the present timeline. That, to me, made a potential series a bit more adult and exciting than just the 'lost in time and can't do anything about it' philosophy of the original, my sentimental favorite TV series of all time.


Harry
 

Jack P

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I watched the proposed Time Tunnel reboot for the second time recently and found myself less impressed than I was the first time because on the second viewing I realized I had misunderstood something from my first viewing. There was evidently no way to fix what had been changed, only to prevent future changes, and I think that was a poor premise. You would have created a lot more interesting tension if fixing the timeline had been part of the mission and then created a tension among the leads since one character would have wanted to see things fixed (to restore her family) but the other would run the risk of losing his.


On Galactica, I will just add one other point again. Whenever I have seen another property reimagined, there has always been in the project, whether it was good or bad, an underlying respect and fondness for the original version. That was NEVER the case with Galactica. It's production team had a sneering contempt for the original and a determined mindset that the only way one could be a fan of it was to be a nostalgia-obsessed person yearning for his childhood and that the original's only "proper" place was to be viewed as kiddie fare for the silly. That arrogance that came forth from More, Eick, Sackhoff etc. was only further rubbing of salt in the wounds for a fanbase that simply wanted a simple one-off project to close the series they enjoyed and appreciated on a much deeper level than its critics ever seem to realize.
 

kowalski65

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Jack, you said it better and more succinctly than I.

The "sneering contempt" you note is dead on accurate.

Absolutely ZERO "respect" or "fondness" for the original Battlestar.

They could have done the newer series, with a different title and different characters, and the fans could have enjoyed it just as much as they do now.


Now. . .check back here in day or so to see how we've gotten creamed!
 

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