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shows that have been destroyed

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by jimmyjet, May 12, 2013.

  1. BobO'Link

    BobO'Link Producer

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    Not to mention that tape was designed for reuseablility with things like newscasts, soaps, and game shows in mind. Less expensive than film, immediate playback, and once aired you can reuse the tape next day/week/month. You *might* keep the truly "special" stories/episodes but otherwise who'd want to watch a newscast, soap opera, or game show episode again? They could see the syndication value in prime time programs but daytime? That was mostly filler stuff or syndicated to begin with.
     
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  2. Message #422 of 470 Oct 17, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
    ClassicTVMan1981X

    ClassicTVMan1981X Screenwriter

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    This would then mean Star of the Family could have survived the wiping trend, as it was, like the classic 1966-71 Dark Shadows, a TV series (though once-weekly rather than 5-day-strip-type).

    ~Ben
     
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  3. bmasters9

    bmasters9 Producer

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    So could The Cavanaughs!
     
  4. MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    Studios are different. They have more space to save stuff. I seriously doubt Paramount would have thrown their tape library out that late in the game, even for short-lived shows. Even P&G started saving their soaps by then. Space isn't as much of an issue for a show that only ran 13 to 26 weeks and was on once a week. But factor in five shows a week 52 weeks a year indefinitely, with large tapes that played on machines as big as refrigerators, and it all adds up.
     
  5. ClassicTVMan1981X

    ClassicTVMan1981X Screenwriter

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    That would have definitely applied to Entertainment Tonight/This Week, even though Solid Gold, another once-weekly program lasting eight seasons, did get a reprieve somewhat through reruns on VH1 in 1998.

    Madame's Place would also have not been destroyed since despite being a 5-night-a-week strip lasting only one season, it had been re-ran on USA Network and later on TV Land.

    ~Ben
     
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  6. Message #426 of 470 Oct 18, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
    MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    Yet it's not listed in the CBS Syndication Bible when short-lived shows with only a small number of episodes are. Marblehead Manor, the show Michael Richards did before Seinfeld, remembered today mainly by Golden Girls fans as a snappy answer by Dorothy to a stupid question by Rose*, is there.

    *After it was not renewed for a second season, it was also a subject of post-mortem schadenfreude from Larry on Newhart.
     
  7. Rob P S

    Rob P S Cinematographer

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    Does anyone know if The Mike Douglas Show is intact?
     
  8. John Karras

    John Karras Second Unit

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    From my research over the years, the first show that was kept was from December 20, 1963 (2 years after the debut). After that, it is spotty during 1964 and 1965. From 1966 forward there are some gaps, but most of the remaining run survives.
     
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  9. MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    If the original Art Fleming and Chuck Woolery runs of Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune weren't kept, how come The Merv Griffin Show was? Was that a by-product of it not being on NBC?
     
  10. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    The Woolery episodes of WOF were reportedly destroyed by Merv himself out of pure spite because of how the relationship with Woolery as host ended on a bad note. The Fleming revival of 78-79 may exist. The earlier Fleming version just falls in the category of how NBC daytime shows of the 60s and early 70s were never kept. We have only the random handful that do and are in circulation (The earliest being the 2000th show from 1972, and also the last show).

    And not all of Merv's talk shows exist. Most of his CBS shows were destroyed by the network.
     
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  11. John Karras

    John Karras Second Unit

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    NBC erased all of Merv's NBC talk show (1962-63); only about 300 of the 1061 Westinghouse shows still survive; the CBS shows were erased, but that choice was made by Merv, who rejected CBS's offer to buy the tapes back (only about 12 of the 635 CBS survive); and of the 3780 Metromedia shows, only about 1400 survive.
     
  12. AndyMcKinney

    AndyMcKinney Cinematographer

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    Of course, that's just unsubstantiated rumour, right?

    Since most of Sajak's early NBC seasons are also mostly-wiped, it's far more likely that his (and Woolery's) episodes all met their fate at by the same method. What's odd is that NBC supposedly stopped erasing things in 1978. Maybe the real truth is they stopped erasing things without permission of the rights holders?

    Since Wheel was prepping to go into syndication, perhaps Merv felt there was no long-term value in these old NBC shows, so gave them permission to wipe? Or, maybe they offered to sell him the tapes, he refused (as he did with his CBS show), seeing no commercial value, and that's why they're mostly gone?
     
  13. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    There are a lot of indications that it is true regarding the spite of Woolery. It's also possible Merv didn't care about saving the first year of Sajak when Susan Stafford was still with the show and when the old Alan Thicke theme music (which to me will ALWAYS be the real theme of WOF) that people associate with the Woolery era was still being used. OTOH, I suspect that the NBC daytime run of WOF from the time the music changed to coincide with the start of the syndicated version (Fall 1983) probably does exist. (GSN did air Vanna's first permanent show from late 82 once along with a surviving Woolery show from 76).

    The apparent loss of the early years of SOTC I have no explanation for.

    And while NBC's mass destruction practice apparently did stop in 78, we still don't know if the 78-80 Alex Trebek High Rollers is intact or not.
     
  14. BobO'Link

    BobO'Link Producer

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    2" video tape was expensive. Very expensive. More expensive than an equivalent amount of film stock. It was the ROI that made it attractive. Even if you shelved a show you still had the option to wipe/reuse the tape. Had Merv purchased those tapes he'd have dropped quite a large amount of cash just for the tape. If they'd made the transition from Quad to 1" (AKA Type-A) tape it'd have been more problematic as he'd then need access to 2 different playback systems. While 1" machines were less costly than 2" machines they were still quite expensive.

    Trivia: Did you know Ampex held the trademark on the word "videotape" for quite a few years?

    Here's an article that discusses videotape from its inception in the 40s and how difficult preservation is with such media. There are a few inaccuracies (one states it would be "impossible" to build a 2" Quad playback machine from scratch to play back tapes from the 50s-70s - I'd argue difficult but not impossible) and it reads a bit disjointed at times but overall it is pretty good.

    Having worked with various tape formats in a broadcast facility (radio and TV) I learned early on how unstable tape can be and to not rely on it for long term storage/preservation. I've seen first hand how improper storage can render a tape "unplayable" after only a year. That led to me owning very few commercial VHS tapes (only Star Trek:TOS) and only starting a video collection when DVDs came along (Laserdisc was too unwieldy and expensive).

    Any time I see where an old TV series that was mastered on 2" tape is getting a release I'm rather amazed. One that it even survives and two that it's still playable enough to be worth releasing.
     
  15. Lord Dalek

    Lord Dalek Producer

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    The claim of daytime WoF being wiped into 1985 comes from an otherwise unnamed "KingWorld representative" and has been repeated elsewhere online. There has been no substantiated evidence to suggest the claim is legit though.
     
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  16. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    As we're nearing World Series time, and since the matter of those broadcasts came up earlier in the thread, I thought I'd post on how things stand with what exists prior to 1975 now (1975 being the earliest year where every game is intact).

    1952 (Yankees-Dodgers). Games 6 and 7, complete.

    1955 (Yankees-Dodgers). Game 5 partial. Game 1 is rumored to exist (I saw a clip in an early 90s HBO special) but has not surfaced.

    1956 (Yankees-Dodgers). Game 2 ending. Game 3 near complete. Game 5 (Larsen perfect game) near complete. Game 7 near complete (Just released)

    1957 (Yankees-Braves). Games 1 and 2 complete. Game 3 near complete. Game 5 complete. Game 6 partial. Games 4 and 7 are known to exist but have not been released.

    1960 (Yankees-Pirates). Game 7 kinescope discovered in 2010 in Bing Crosby's cellar.

    1961 (Yankees-Reds). 30 minute segments only of Games 3, 4 and 5.

    1963 (Yankees-Dodgers). Just a couple innings from Game 3.

    1965 (Twins-Dodgers). All seven games preserved by CBC in B/W kinescope.

    1968 (Tigers-Cardinals). All seven games preserved by CBC in B/W kinescope.

    1969 (Orioles-Mets). Games 1 and 2 preserved by CBC in B/W kinescope. Games 3-4-5 exist in original color videotape from truck feed recordings with no commercials between innings.

    1970 (Orioles-Reds). All five games preserved by CBC in B/W kinescope and Game 5 also exists in color videotape from a truck feed.

    1971 (Orioles-Pirates). Games 1 and 2, complete and uncut. Game 3, just the last four innings. Game 4, near complete. Game 5, first half only. Games 6 and 7, complete and uncut.

    1972 (A's-Reds). The least complete WS of recent vintage. MLB vault has only an intact Game 4, a near complete Game 5 and just partials and fragments of the other games. An early home recording though does exist with the full Game 7 pregame and condensed action (between pitches edited) of the first three innings.

    1973 (A's-Mets). Game 1 is the only one complete and uncut. Game 2 is missing the final inning and a half including the key Mike Andrews errors (though clips of those plays exist in a Peabody Awards video I have). Game 3 is missing the final innings. Game 4 is just the first four innings. Game 5 is just the last two innings. Only 28 minutes of Game 6 material exists from a Cartridgevision recording and Game 7 is missing the final two outs and postgame.

    1974 (A's-Dodgers). All games complete except Game 5 which is the Bottom 3rd to Bottom 8th only.

    Also I have over the last few years found on reel-to-reel tape audio of these lost WS telecasts.

    1961 World Series (Games 3, 4, 5)
    1962 World Series (Games 1, 3, 7)
    1964 World Series (All games except Game 3)
    1967 World Series (All seven games)
     
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  17. Mark Y

    Mark Y Screenwriter

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    I remember seeing a copy of a contract regarding "Entertainment Tonight" years ago where it stipulated that TV stations were REQUIRED to erase the shows after they aired.
     
  18. BobO'Link

    BobO'Link Producer

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    The TV station I worked for was the production facility for The Gene Williams Country Music Show in the mid 90s (until he moved it to Branson, MO). He purchased the 3/4" U-Matic tapes for the show (2 per episode - primary and backup recorded simultaneously) and took them with him when he moved the show to Branson. I've always wondered if those still play and if he found a use for them. At the time I considered it wasted money as the show was mainly him reminiscing about old times, reading letters from viewers, and playing country music videos with the bulk of it the videos.
     
  19. MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    Merv is luckier than Paul Winchell. Metromedia actively wiped his ventriloquist show with Jerry Mahoney just to deprive him of royalties. Ironically, since he was also the voice of Tigger (among others from various studios), Disney would own it if there was anything left to own.

    Has anyone floated the idea of doing this with a 3D printer?
     
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  20. BobO'Link

    BobO'Link Producer

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    If you think you can 3D print something like this, go ahead:

    Just one of several models/designs of the Ampex VPR-80:
    [​IMG]

    Here's part of the transport electronics/mechanics:
    [​IMG]

    Here's what the inside of the playback head wheel looks like:
    [​IMG]

    The tape moves at 15ips with the head spinning at 14,400rpm. The 4 heads (where it gets its name: Quadruplex or Quad for short) are switched on/off as the head rotates and they touch the moving tape.

    Trivia: In 1956 a 1 hour reel of tape cost ~$300 - that's ~$2,800 today.
     

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