shows that have been destroyed

Neil Brock

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Hi All,

I read an article several years ago that stated that producer Jack Chertok not only destroyed the 35mm masters of My Living Doll, he also did the same with the 35mm masters of Sky King. He didn't want to pay for the storage.
Until someone finds otherwise, I tend to believe it to be true.
 

Ron1973

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The TV station I worked for was the production facility for The Gene Williams Country Music Show in the mid 90s (until he moved it to Branson, MO). He purchased the 3/4" U-Matic tapes for the show (2 per episode - primary and backup recorded simultaneously) and took them with him when he moved the show to Branson. I've always wondered if those still play and if he found a use for them. At the time I considered it wasted money as the show was mainly him reminiscing about old times, reading letters from viewers, and playing country music videos with the bulk of it the videos.
I remember him. He took the 6pm timeslot on KAIT that Hee Haw had. I had been watching Hee Haw for the "flashback" shows, and all of a sudden it was replaced by his show. I never could get interested in his show.
 

BobO'Link

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I remember him. He took the 6pm timeslot on KAIT that Hee Haw had. I had been watching Hee Haw for the "flashback" shows, and all of a sudden it was replaced by his show. I never could get interested in his show.
I couldn't get interested either - and I directed it! I really don't know just who he appealed to. You could see the same videos on CMTV with far better announcers and filler material. It had to have been the "letters" segment with people writing in just to hear their name read on TV. I don't get that either.

I distinctly recall one video where the female artist did a slow ballad version of Janis Joplin's "Piece of my Heart." It was horrible! I ranted about it loud enough I'm surprised Gene didn't hear me over the camera operator's headset in the studio. He played it several more times and I always had the audio operator turn the control room speakers off while it ran.
 
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Neil Brock

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1969 (Orioles-Mets). Games 1 and 2 preserved by CBC in B/W kinescope. Games 3-4-5 exist in original color videotape from truck feed recordings with no commercials between innings.

1971 (Orioles-Pirates). Games 1 and 2, complete and uncut. Game 3, just the last four innings. Game 4, near complete. Game 5, first half only. Games 6 and 7, complete and uncut.

1972 (A's-Reds). The least complete WS of recent vintage. MLB vault has only an intact Game 4, a near complete Game 5 and just partials and fragments of the other games. An early home recording though does exist with the full Game 7 pregame and condensed action (between pitches edited) of the first three innings.

1973 (A's-Mets). Game 1 is the only one complete and uncut. Game 2 is missing the final inning and a half including the key Mike Andrews errors (though clips of those plays exist in a Peabody Awards video I have). Game 3 is missing the final innings. Game 4 is just the first four innings. Game 5 is just the last two innings. Only 28 minutes of Game 6 material exists from a Cartridgevision recording and Game 7 is missing the final two outs and postgame.
1969 Game 4 is missing the 5th inning

1971 Game 4 has big chunks missing
Game 6 cuts out in the 8th inning, comes back in the 10th
Gane 7 is missing one batter

1972 Game 4 is missing a half inning
Game 5 is missing between the 5th and 7th innings
Game 3 one hour and 45 minutes exists

1975 is not complete
Game 3 is missing 4 innings
Game 5 is also missing a few innings
 

Jack P

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Game 3 is only missing the 8th inning, not four innings. There are no missing innings on Game 5 either (an individual batter at worst maybe)

It's because the finale of 74 is missing its ending and trophy presentation that missing bits in 75 which are largely inconsequential don't stick out as much and why fans consider 75 to be "complete" in that sense.
 
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Lord Dalek

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BTW we can now knock down the total of missing Doctor Who episodes to 95...sorta.

 

AndyMcKinney

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There's an announcement of an animation coming tomorrow, if those are counted in knocking down the lost total.
I certainly don't count them. Animated or not (or, in the case of Mission to the Unknown, re-enacted or not), they're still missing, and I think if any previously-animated episodes ever turn up, Doctor Who fans will rejoice and will want the story re-released with the episode properly in place, the animation relegated to the special features.

For those who enjoy the animations, I harbor no ill will, I just can't really get all that excited about them. No matter how faithful they might try to be to the source material, they just can never be the same as the real thing.
 

DeWilson

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When I was in one of the East Coast CBS warehouses 15 years ago there were tons of Captain Kangaroo 2-inch tapes. No reason to think they wouldn't still be around.
The Admin on the "Captain Kangaroo Existing Episodes, Excerpts and Memorabilia" page on Facebook claims a contact he has at CBS reported the network holds nothing - show tapes and kines are now gone, wiped, destroyed - but then we all know how there's loads of misinformation going around on the survival of many shows - tape and film/kinescopes. )

As a friend of mine said recently, "If I don't see an inventory print out of a network's vault holdings - I don't believe stories of what still and doesn't exist - and even then we know those lists can be inaccurate."
 
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Jack P

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The Jack Narz hosted Concentration that ran in syndication from 1973-1978 and was produced by Goodson-Todman productions is extant but unfortunately when GSN wanted to air repeats, NBC which owns the format, wouldn't permit it, nor would they allow repeats of the Alex Trebek hosted "Classic Concentration" of 1987-1991. Unfortunately the boat has long since sailed on any hopes of seeing them repeated again given GSN's current policy (the Trebek stuff maybe someday if NBC relented, but the Narz stuff I doubt would fly).
Starting March 30, I will be pleased to have been proved wrong as Buzzr will start airing the 1970s Jack Narz version of Concentration on the daily schedule at 7:30 PM.
 

The Obsolete Man

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Starting March 30, I will be pleased to have been proved wrong as Buzzr will start airing the 1970s Jack Narz version of Concentration on the daily schedule at 7:30 PM.
And I just watched a block of Trebek's Classic Concentration yesterday, so apparently Buzzr and Fremantle are willing to play ball with NBC more than GSN was.
 
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Lord Dalek

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It would be kinda remarkable if Freemantle and Comcast could hash out a deal over what survives of the Hugh Downs/Bob Clayton years but I'm not holding my breath.
 

LouA

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Here's a thought : how many shows that still DO exist , but are no longer popular , will be allowed to deteriorate . Things like , Adventures In Paradise , My Little Margie , Tightrope , Andy's Gang, Life Of Riley etc.? You all know the shows - no one , not even the right's holders really care about them - just a small group of loyal fans. Most haven't been on TV in years. Will they be allowed to languish and eventually deteriorate? I think I know the answer!
 
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Neil Brock

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Here's a thought : how many shows that still DO exist , but are no longer popular , will be allowed to deteriorate . Things like , Adventures In Paradise , My Little Margie , Tightrope , Andy's Gang, Life Of Riley etc.? You all know the shows - no one , not even the right's holders really care about them - just a small group of loyal fans. Most haven't been on TV in years. Will they be allowed to languish and eventually deteriorate? I think I know the answer!
Most likely, yes. If shows are deemed to have no commercial value, and many shows fall into that category, then that's exactly what will happen. Unfortunately, there are a great many TV shows which failed and are forgotten or are just too old and there is just no market for them.
 

DeWilson

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Here's a thought : how many shows that still DO exist , but are no longer popular , will be allowed to deteriorate . Things like , Adventures In Paradise , My Little Margie , Tightrope , Andy's Gang, Life Of Riley etc.? You all know the shows - no one , not even the right's holders really care about them - just a small group of loyal fans. Most haven't been on TV in years. Will they be allowed to languish and eventually deteriorate? I think I know the answer!
I wouldn't worry about anything held by a major studio or company with Archive Management - stuff properly stored even if it's sitting on the shelf for decades - Stuff like Adventures in Paradise (20th Television) and Tightrope (Sony) are safe and sound. They won't deteriorate as they are being properly stored. "Amos and Andy" is still properly stored somewhere at CBS (Studio City Radford or Fort Lee,NJ - or Both) and nice, 35mm master transfers of those will never see the light of day!

Don't believe that BS about "Farmer's Daughter" having been damaged in storage - that was a BS story Sony told AntennaTV because they didn't want to spend the money go back and make new transfers of elements that have been properly stored. 100 35mm Picture Negatives and separate 100 Sound Negatives just don't get "damaged". Sony in notorious for NOT spending money to go back into the archive for material. The missing "Circus Boy" episodes that AntennaTV didn't air EXIST - they just didn't want to spend the funds to replace the missing 35-odd year old syndication tapes. That's the same reason there's old transfers on almost every other "borderline" Screen Gems show.

Heck, Rhino has done a BETTER job with THE MONKEES master elements than Screen Gems/Columbia Pictures TV ever did. I'll give you an example - the prints transferred for broadcast in the 1980's - the ones that MTV aired and were in the ones that replaced the old 16mm prints in syndication - Songs from Repeat airings,and even Saturday morning airings were on a handful of episodes, lower-quality end credits,and incorrect edits listing different songs than on the episodes - and one episode - "Alias Micky Dolenz" was from 16mm elements - when the 35mm were safe and sound! Heck, these transfers ARE STILL being used in syndication 35 years later! the Blu-Ray box set was the first totally proper release,unedited with all the proper elements as aired on NBC first-run.

It's the OTHER stuff that worried me - "Life of Riley" who the heck has that, or is storing it's masters? (I know Tgg released the Gleason episodes - but they were edited,and I'm not 100% sure they were legit licensed) That's got to be the only MAJOR 1950's comedy series that hasn't seen the light of day in decades.

"My Little Margie" is in the public domain - what the heck happened to the master elements? (same with other shows Roland Reed was involved in.) ROCKY JONES - SPACE RANGER (Roland Reed was involved in that,too) - where are the negatives of the TV and Feature length elements? As far as the original 39-episodes, none are "lost", and have been in private hands for years, but some of the features-compilations seem to have gone missing.

That is what worried me - the shows that don't have a major studio or rights holder safely storing elements. Look at what happened to stuff like FLASH GORDON, TERRY & THE PIRATES (although we've heard about elements being found, including the missing 2 episodes only to have them thrown out when the person died) , DICK TRACY, even series as recent as the 1968 CBS BLONDIE series is missing - CBS doesn't have it, Universal doesn't have it, King Features doesn't have it It, Kayro Productions doesn't exist anymore (KFS do have the master elements on the films and the 1957 TV series which got a DVD release) (Yes, i'm using comic strip related shows as an example)

The BLONDIE hurts the most as Bruce Lee guest stared in the final episode - the only American TV appearance he made that doesn't exist - and if Bruce Lee researchers over the years couldn't find it - and trust me they have looked and look - filmmakers and documentary makers - those who would have access to such places others don't - then it really is gone.
 
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B-ROLL

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Here's a thought : how many shows that still DO exist , but are no longer popular , will be allowed to deteriorate . Things like , Adventures In Paradise , My Little Margie , Tightrope , Andy's Gang, Life Of Riley etc.? You all know the shows - no one , not even the right's holders really care about them - just a small group of loyal fans. Most haven't been on TV in years. Will they be allowed to languish and eventually deteriorate? I think I know the answer!
I know that the William Bendix version of "Life of Riley" was shown very late at night on Nickelodeon circa 1981-1982. They looked to be new film prints. They were not restored, so there might be some issues with the source material (especially the audio).

IMDd says the "studio" was NBC ...
 

timk1041

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Most likely, yes. If shows are deemed to have no commercial value, and many shows fall into that category, then that's exactly what will happen. Unfortunately, there are a great many TV shows which failed and are forgotten or are just too old and there is just no market for them.[/QUOTE
Terrible!
 

Mark Y

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Here's a thought : how many shows that still DO exist , but are no longer popular , will be allowed to deteriorate . Things like , Adventures In Paradise , My Little Margie , Tightrope , Andy's Gang, Life Of Riley etc.? You all know the shows - no one , not even the right's holders really care about them - just a small group of loyal fans. Most haven't been on TV in years. Will they be allowed to languish and eventually deteriorate? I think I know the answer!
This isn't a TV show, but just for instance, the nitrate negatives of the 1940s Paramount cartoons are said to be at UCLA, but no serious efforts seem to be made to preserve them. One cartoon, "Cat O' Nine Ails," with Herman the Mouse for some reason appears not to have been released to television back in the day and no prints apparently exist beyond what UCLA has. Someone hopefully will correct me if I am wrong.
 

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