shows that have been destroyed (1 Viewer)

[John Karras]

Merv is luckier than Paul Winchell. Metromedia actively wiped his ventriloquist show with Jerry Mahoney just to deprive him of royalties. Ironically, since he was also the voice of Tigger (among others from various studios), Disney would own it if there was anything left to own.

Speaking of Metromedia's crimes, let's not forget that they were complicit in the destruction of the Dumont network's kinescope library.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

There are a lot of indications that it is true regarding the spite of Woolery.

Yes, I'm aware of Griffin's personal dislike of Woolery. I was just saying that I don't see that as a reason he would intentionally wipe the Woolery episodes, though. I'm sure he'd have other motivations than that (particularly since it seems like the early Sajak years were also wiped).

It's also possible Merv didn't care about saving the first year of Sajak when Susan Stafford was still with the show and when the old Alan Thicke theme music (which to me will ALWAYS be the real theme of WOF) that people associate with the Woolery era was still being used.

Re: Susan Stafford? In a word, "no." Griffin loved her (at least, he didn't hold any grudges against her, unlike Woolery). In an interview she said that when she told Merv she was leaving, he tried to convince her to stay, telling her that he planned to go into syndication in another year or two, and that if she stayed on, she'd stand to make a big pile of money. She said she was more interested in pursuing charity work, and he eventually respected her decision. He must have still been okay with Susan to ask her back to fill in for Vanna after the death of White's live-in boyfriend in 1986.

Re: the music? You're right in that the entire reason Griffin changed the music beginning with syndication was all down to one thing: money, and more specifically, music royalties rights. Griffin probably figured he'd rather have those residuals going to him rather than Alan Thicke (especially now that there would be two episodes of the show every day.

Still, I doubt that Merv was worried about any "old" reruns of Wheel getting out there as competition. At that time, he personally owned the show. There would not have been any old episodes of the show in syndication without his say-so.

I'm sure the reason his archive didn't retain a significant run of the shows pre-1983 is all down to a combination of NBC wipings, and the likelyhood that he saw no more commercial value in keeping all those quads than he did in keeping a complete set of masters for his own talk show.

The apparent loss of the early years of SOTC I have no explanation for.

Do we know "for sure" that they're destroyed, though? I saw where the director of "Sales" at Fremantle confirmed the existence of 883 episodes (which may or may not include the two syndicated seasons. However, maybe we should take that with a tiny bit of salt. Since this was the Sales department who gave the info, that MIGHT simply mean that 883 is the number of episodes which exit on modern broadcast formats and are available for airing/syndication. It's entirely possible that the earlier episodes are in the archive somewhere, and just simply have never been converted to digital.

One possible theory I can come up with: maybe that number of 883 consists of all the episodes that originated after the switch from 2-inch to 1-inch tapes. Maybe the episodes from the first 2-3 seasons were recorded on 2-inch, and given the relative scarcity of the playback machines (compared to 1-inch), maybe Fremantle only ever converted the 1-inch tapes. And really, why would they? I'm sure they're well-satisfied that 800-plus episodes is enough, especially considering no US network that's ever played $ALE reruns has ever aired that many.

And while NBC's mass destruction practice apparently did stop in 78, we still don't know if the 78-80 Alex Trebek High Rollers is intact or not.

It's likely that the fate of ROLLERS is similar to HOLLYWOOD SQUARES: that the daytime episodes were likely still at NBC and got wiped, while the episodes of the syndicated version were still in the hands of the syndicator (or their successor) and as such, likely survived.

 

[Jack P]

If it's a case where NBC said to Merv, "Do you want the old Woolery episodes?" and Merv said, "No!" then I think the spite argument would still be valid. I shouldn't have made the speculation about Susan since yes, I remember her coming back for that week in 86.

Music royalties is also why when reviving Jeopardy he didn't bring back the original Fleming theme which was composed by his former wife.

There was no syndicated version of the 78-80 High Rollers revival. No one has ever seen an episode of the syndicated version where Leslie Uggams was the dice roller as opposed to Ruta Lee. That said, we know some NBC HSQ were not wiped and are in the lot that survive since GSN did air the one "Storybook Squares" special from 1977 that was an NBC daytime show. Not known is if the 1969 Saturday morning "Storybook Squares" exists (one archival episode does circulate), though since half of the 68 night shows survive and were aired, it's probable some do.

"Gambit" as a CBS show likely exists. I do remember in fact syndicated repeats of "Gambit" in 1978 or so on WPIX after its original run ended (NBC daytime HSQ also aired in syndicated repeats in 1981 on WPIX). We've seen since this thread began years ago several "Gambits" finally surface and posted by Wink Martindale himself on his YT channel after decades of only one episode being in circulation.

 

[bmasters9]

We've seen since this thread began years ago several "Gambits" finally surface and posted by Wink Martindale himself on his YT channel after decades of only one episode being in circulation.

And I've seen one of those Gambits that Wink put up-- the first couple took a car and bonus cash for a 21 on the first bonus round, then another couple (becoming a new champion) took $10,000 on the second one.

 

[Lord Dalek]

Was NBC still using 2" quad in the early 80s? Most of the world had moved on to 1" Type C by that point.

It's likely that the fate of ROLLERS is similar to HOLLYWOOD SQUARES: that the daytime episodes were likely still at NBC and got wiped, while the episodes of the syndicated version were still in the hands of the syndicator (or their successor) and as such, likely survived.

The only known surviving Heatter-Quigley shows are as follows...

The Celebrity Game
The Hollywood Squares Daytime (1 1977 Storybook Squares + most episodes from mid-1978 on)
The Hollywood Squares Nighttime (both 1968 NBC and Syndicated)
Gambit (CBS)
Battlestars
All Star Blitz
High Rollers 1986

The claim is that 3000 Hollywood Squares episodes were in the same storage facility as Dark Shadows. It has not been debunked.

 

[MatthewA]

Was NBC still using 2" quad in the early 80s? Most of the world had moved on to 1" Type C by that point.

I don't know about the first half of the decade, but by the time of the GE merger of RCA, they had switched to some format called MII for broadcast, and the results were not great to say the least. I've never heard good things about it from professionals.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Was NBC still using 2" quad in the early 80s? Most of the world had moved on to 1" Type C by that point.

Don't know. Was just floating a possible theory. I know as far as Doctor Who was concerned by the BBC in England, the show was recorded onto 2-inch quads until 1983, which was the year that $ale debuted in the States.

The claim is that 3000 Hollywood Squares episodes were in the same storage facility as Dark Shadows. It has not been debunked.

Yes, I read that story and I'm sure it's true. What isn't known for sure, though (or wasn't told), is whether 3,000 unique episodes were discovered or not. Remember, since episodes of syndicated shows were bicycled in those days (rather than via satellite), it's possible that there were multiple tapes for the syndicated run within this batch. I'm not saying the entire cache consisted of just syndicated and NBC prime-time shows, just that it's possible that the count of 'unique' episodes might be quite a bit below that 3,000 number.

Also, it's quite possible (nay, likely) that no more episodes were converted to digital than the 150 or so chosen by GSN for their reruns. Sony (the current rights holder) probably hasn't seen any value in transferring any more, especially since the GSN ratings didn't set the world on fire enough to warrant the purchase of an additional batch of episodes.

 

[Jack P]

They overdid episodes from 1975-76, many of them with a very unfunny Jonathan Winters.

 

[MatthewA]

Also, it's quite possible (nay, likely) that no more episodes were converted to digital than the 150 or so chosen by GSN for their reruns. Sony (the current rights holder) probably hasn't seen any value in transferring any more, especially since the GSN ratings didn't set the world on fire enough to warrant the purchase of an additional batch of episodes.

Well, let's be fair, GSN did a lot of things to annoy its target audience, from squeezing the credits in a tiny box to stripping away sponsor plugs. And as usual, just like Bravo, my cable company didn't add it until its best days were behind it. Ratings only count a select number of people who actually watch; it has no way of tracking people's reasons for not watching shows. They assume if people don't watch, it's because they don't like the show; they never considered viewers who like a show but hate seeing it mutilated in such a fashion.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

They overdid episodes from 1975-76, many of them with a very unfunny Jonathan Winters.

Yeah, I wish that GSN had selected a wider variety of episodes, including ones from the later syndicated seasons as well. One article I read (whether or not it's true) is they were screening episodes at that time to try and eliminate ones that might be considered too 'politically incorrect'.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

The fact that GSN ran them to death initially also didn't help. They started out with four unique episodes per day, five days a week (as I recall). With only 150 'new' episodes to burn, this show quickly became a victim of rerun abuse.

 

[MatthewA]

If anything, streaming might be the salvation for a lot of shows of this nature simply because of how many discs a complete series set would occupy. Plenty of 1970s/1980s era Goodson-Todman shows are on Amazon Prime as we speak.

Yeah, I wish that GSN had selected a wider variety of episodes, including ones from the later syndicated seasons as well. One article I read (whether or not it's true) is they were screening episodes at that time to try and eliminate ones that might be considered too 'politically incorrect'.

I remember reading that they pulled a Match Game episode — can't recall whether network or syndicated — because of an anti-gay slur being one of the answers, yet they were probably under the influence of God knows what at the time they made it. 10 years earlier, you couldn't talk about it on TV in ANY context!

 

[bmasters9]

If anything, streaming might be the salvation for a lot of shows of this nature simply because of how many discs a complete series set would occupy.

You bet-- with 5 a day most weeks, that'd be at least 100 discs, perhaps more!

 

[Lord Dalek]

Don't know. Was just floating a possible theory. I know as far as Doctor Who was concerned by the BBC in England, the show was recorded onto 2-inch quads until 1983, which was the year that $ale debuted in the States.

It should be pointed out that Doctor Who was one of (and in fact, in the case of The Five Doctors, the very last) BBC shows to be produced on 2". They had been making the change over to 1" with sitcoms and news since 1978.

 

[Sky King]

Hi All,

I read an article several years ago that stated that producer Jack Chertok not only destroyed the 35mm masters of My Living Doll, he also did the same with the 35mm masters of Sky King. He didn't want to pay for the storage.

 

[Pmprod7]

This would then mean Star of the Family could have survived the wiping trend, as it was, like the classic 1966-71 Dark Shadows, a TV series (though once-weekly rather than 5-day-strip-type).

~Ben

I wrote a question to CBS Television Distribution --the clip licensing division-- about 'Star of the Family' and they wrote back that it's still in their system. (CBS/Paramount Television would have the show.)
I don't know if they can say rather it could be available on MOD DVD, streaming or syndication though.

 

[ClassicTVMan1981X]

This would then mean Star of the Family could have survived the wiping trend, as it was, like the classic 1966-71 Dark Shadows, a TV series (though once-weekly rather than 5-day-strip-type).

~Ben

I wrote a question to CBS Television Distribution --the clip licensing division-- about 'Star of the Family' and they wrote back that it's still in their system. (CBS/Paramount Television would have the show.)
I don't know if they can say rather it could be available on MOD DVD, streaming or syndication though.

Good to know it's not missing! I still hope they will put it out on MOD DVD, though.

~Ben

 

[Pmprod7]

Pardon the quotes on my post. I hit 'reply to post' and it came up that way. I thought that it would display normally when I logged out.

 

[BobO'Link]

Pardon the quotes on my post. I hit 'reply to post' and it came up that way. I thought that it would display normally when I logged out.

It's easy to fix. You have a rogue "I" in the first instance of "QUOTE" causing parsing to break. Remove the "I" and all will be good.

 

[Pmprod7]

thanks--I didn't notice that on there