Rgpc 400s ?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Joe Tilley, Nov 17, 2002.

  1. Joe Tilley

    Joe Tilley Supporting Actor

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    I have read several reviews on this product & was wonting to see if anyone here has used this product & what your opinions are on them. I've seen quite a few good comments on Richard Gray products & I've been thinking about getting one of these units to run with my system.

    If its any help my current system consists of:
    Sony 36" 250XBR, but I will be upgrading to a 57" HDTV after Christmas.
    Sony STR-DA5ES recever
    Sony DVP-C650D DVD player, also getting upgraded
    Sony CDP-CX400 CD player
    Polk CS400i center, RT55i mains,RT55i front surrounds,& RT55i rear surrounds
    DIY 270 liter sono sub with PE 250watt plate amp & 15" Dayton DVC sub
    DIY power cords for the 5ES & PE amp made with 12awg stranded copper & Wattgate connectors
    Monster Power HTS1000

    I also plan on getting an Outlaw 770 amp & using my current 5ES as a pre amp but this will not be until around May or June of 03.

    Thanks for any help. Joe
     
  2. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Just what is it that you're looking for the RG units to do or perhaps better, what are you looking to achieve? I will say, without elaboration at the moment, that his 'Gray Paper' is replete with errors (lies, mistakes, misinformation?) and while one will no doubt find may satisfied users, that by itself does not imply the product either works as stated or that it is particularly effective at say improving either audio or video in a cost effective manner.
    Perhaps if you think about a response to the questions above, I or others may better provide a reasonable answer.
     
  3. Joe Tilley

    Joe Tilley Supporting Actor

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    Chu, I'm basically just looking for whatever improvements I might be able to find for audio & or video.

    I'm more so just curious on what peoples opions were on them, & if they had noticed any improvements of any type when using them.
     
  4. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    As much as I personally find little merit in many of StereoPhile's reviews, even they themselves recently wrote of finding no signficiant improvements through the use of Gray's product. Now from a periodical that's stated they think Green Pens work, that's something. This elicited a whiny response from Mr. Gray with the expected and I'm paraphrasing "lot's of respected companies use our products...lots of respected people recommend or use our product...we've got tons or letters and emails from people saying how satisified they are". In this world today, there's no shortage of positive reviews for things that don't really work! Hell Joe, you'll even find used units on Ebay or Audiogon. People will say they're selling them because they're upgrading or because of financial situations while telling you how good they are. All I can say to that, is if you were trying to get rid of a product that didn't work as advertised, would you be telling them "i'm selling this because I spent way too much money ($750) for a surge protector/EMI/RFI attenuation device". Hey look if you want positive experiences, go to his website and read about them. If you have an issue presently with such noise on your ac lines that its causing an issue with your equipment, I'd look at eliminating its source rather than treating its effects. If you simply want to lower the noise floor for whatever reason, then one can use products by Monster, Panamax, even Triplite and Belkin to do that. For greater noise reduction then balanced power and/or isolation transformers suggest themselves.
     
  5. Ron Boster

    Ron Boster Screenwriter

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    Joe:
    There has been in the past a lot of discussion, both pro and con concerning RGPC at www.avsforum.com Run a search using RIchard Gray for more details.
    In general, I would demo a RGPC before buying. From what I have read it depends on your system and the current coming in as to whether it would help....I think Chu would agree that since everyone's set-up is different, power products and their benefits will vary greatly from user to user.
    I saw noticable improvements in sharpness and darker blacks with the RGPC unit and my Mits RPTV. Yes, I did sell them to buy a balanced power unit that provided even more benefits (at a higher cost).
    If you decide to buy a RG unit. I wouldn't pay more than $400 used for one.
    Good Luck
    Ron Boster
     
  6. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    I agree Ron that everyone's environment is different, nonetheless, Gray's factual errors should not inspire any confidence in his products.
     
  7. Joe Tilley

    Joe Tilley Supporting Actor

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    Thanks for your input guys. Like I said I'm just looking for options that may or could improve the performance of my overall system.

    Chu, you said ( For greater noise reduction then balanced power &/or isolation transformers suggest themselves ). If this is the case would you recommend something like Monsters HTPS7000 as I can get any Monster products at close to half there retail cost. I've thought about getting either this or at least there HTS5000 to replace my current HTS1000. I have had my HTS1000 for a couple of years & noticed a subtle improvement with noise coming through my recever & tv so I have wondered if I could improve on that any farther.

    I guess with not having a great understanding of the different types of power treatments & so many different products out there I find myself confused on what would provide a benefit & what would not.

    Thanks for any farther advice you may have.
     
  8. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    I think that's a pretty good choice Joe and 1/2 off is not too shabby. It's got a few bells and whistles that may be of interest as I'm sure you're aware of and at least to me, it's easy to look at.
    Easiest thing for me to do is to want to spend your money and were you to say that Anna Nicole Smith has left you in her will and she was knocking at death's door, I'd be sorely tempted to [​IMG]. Personally, given that you're picking up a new plasma tv, i myself might be inclined to hold off the purchase till it came in, but that's just me. The nice thing about isolation transformers is that when you plug additional things into them they won't get 'stupid' like a BP unit might. Also isolation transformers can provide relatively enormous amounts of noise attenuation compared to say a BP or other typical means of filtration.
    I see that you're in Indiana, which I believe does have some parts that are particularly prone to lightning and some severe storms. Out of curiousity, is that an issue where you live and if so, have you already given thought to perhaps providing a general means of protection for the whole house?
     
  9. Joe Tilley

    Joe Tilley Supporting Actor

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    I live right in the middle of IN & we are very pron to some pretty good lighting in the summer months. I was going to have a whole house surge put in from the power co but since I'm renting my house right now the land lord wont go for it for some reason.
    My biggest concerns are the wiring in the house is kinda shabby, most of it needs to be redone but I do have a dedicated 20amp line to my system that I ran.
    My land lord is one of those not so good do it your selfers so the wiring is just plain scary. I'll put it this way I have a 100 amp panel in the house that has a sub panel attached to it. That than feeds into another 100 amp panel in one part of my garage which in turn feeds a 60 amp fuse box in another part of the garage or at least something like that.
    My biggest problems are when I'm using larger power tools in the garage like my table saw or compressor. Any time they are on I get some kinda fuzz or noise inside on my tv or receiver. This really isn't to big of a deal for me as I cant watch a movie & be in the garage at the same time but the wife doesn't care for it much. And at the same time I don't wont these things to do any kinda damage to my system so I would like to stop them if possible.
    BTW I'm getting a HD RPTV not a plasma, I could only wish I had the extra 5 or 6 grand for that[​IMG]
     
  10. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Joe, you know as well as I do that the wiring scheme is likely a nightmare and even though your HT system is on another circuit, only an electrician could take a look at what you've got there and figure out if the wiring isn't at least somewhat responsible. Seeing as how you're renting and pretty much stuck with the present situation, maybe we can think of a way to make the picture quality better while you're putzing around with the power tools. For starters, it remains to be seen if the picture problems are due to EMI coming through the lines or via the air. Maybe both ways? [​IMG] I'd consider a little experiment (assuming space considerations permit it) where I'd attach say a 20 ft extension cord to the power saw. Then I'd compare the picture quality of the TV by running the power tool in the garage and then, using that same extension cord, moving the same tool 20 ft further away from where you keep your HT setup. If there's a significant reduction in TV 'noise', that'd suggest the majority is coming via the air. If not, that'd suggest most is coming via the AC lines...possibly through ground. In the latter case, there is a very strong possibility that the Monster unit you're considering will work. It also suggests that maybe another or additional approach can be taken. Put a heavy duty EMI/RFI suppressor between your power tools and the outlet they're hooked into. Another, less expensive, but possibly equally effective approach would be to put toriod cores on all the cords of your power tools. You can buy clamp on toroids that will go onto power cords, monitor cords, serial cables, etc. Looping the cord so that it passes through the toroid several times can greatly improve the amount of shielding it provides. You can also buy just plain toroids in a variety of sizes from amateur radio sources or many electronic stores (Radio Shack for instance). Toroids are available in different flavors that have specific frequency responses. I'd take a stab at something that's 30 MHz and below as an initial shot. Of course you could always line your garage with aluminum foil that's grounded!
     
  11. Joe Tilley

    Joe Tilley Supporting Actor

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    [​IMG] Hay I like the foil idea cause actually my garage is already pretty much foil lined with that double sided foil & foam insulation board.
    But really I will give a couple of your ideas a shot & see what I get from it. As for the electrician idea thats another thing as my father in law is an electrician but he isn't willing to mess with it unless my land lord agreed to let him do so. He has suggested that some of my problems are most likely due to the crazy wiring.
     
  12. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    I'm hoping that just maybe if some of that nastiness is coming through via the lines on account of your power tools then just maybe the 'choke' approach might have some benefit by at least attenuating it somewhat. I can appreciate your father-in-law's reluctance but perhaps he can look things over in the garage and see if there are any grounding issues. Also I'm sure he's also got an outlet tester and you could always borrow that and go around verifying that all the outles and GFI's are properly hooked up. Post back Joe with how you're making out there.
     
  13. Joe Tilley

    Joe Tilley Supporting Actor

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    Well I did try out a few things this afternoon with the table saw on some different outlets in the garage & distances from the house using a 25' extension cord. It's my assumption that it's not EMI as nothing changed at all, & I even had the saw right by my back door & plugged into an outlet in the house. My compressor I cant really try anything different with as it is 220 not to mention it weighs about 400lbs.
    I think if anything most of the trouble is in the house box as it is the most cluttered. The 100 amp panel in the main part of my garage is very well organized but I don't know how or where the other 60amp box is tied in at. I think the only thing the 60 amp is used for is the lights in that side. I have looked several times to try & figure out where the main line comes in & what it goes to first but without pulling off paneling I cant get to anything to see.
    One other thing I don't think it would make a difference but the main part of the garage is all ran in conduit & uses THHN 12awg stranded copper. Everything seams to be grounded properly but I'm not an expert at wiring so there may be something I'm not catching.
     
  14. Joe Tilley

    Joe Tilley Supporting Actor

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    Well I found my main problem today. I got to digging in my main panel in the house & found out that the feed going into the garage was NOT grounded. The hot & neutral were fine but for whatever reason the ground was left unhooked. So I went ahead & shut off the main & hooked it up along with getting rid of two unused circuits in the house.
    After that I was off to try things out & almost all of the static I was getting is gone. What is there now is barley noticeable at all.

    All in all I think I have made up my mind & will be picking up the Monster HTPS7000 the first of the year. I found out today I can get it for $785 not bad at more than $500 off retail & thats direct from Monster brand new.
     
  15. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    so part of the problem was the grounding. that's great! Give the idea of a 'choke' a little thought as there 'may' be some benefit there. Good choices to look might be the Shack as their return policy is pretty good. As an aside Joe, if you've got a spare surge/line conditioner laying around try hooking that up to the TV and see if that clears up your issues with the tools running.
     

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