Replicating a PB2 plus.....

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Cam McFarland, May 28, 2004.

  1. Cam McFarland

    Cam McFarland Supporting Actor

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    What components, sans cabinet material, would it take to replicate a PB2 plus?
    And no, not just "a big ass woofer & amp", but a little more detail, please. [​IMG]
     
  2. ColinM

    ColinM Cinematographer

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    In form or on paper (measurements)?

    I'd say my discover card would work, but I'm not about to post my #.[​IMG]
     
  3. Cam McFarland

    Cam McFarland Supporting Actor

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    Subwoofer make & model.
    Amp make & model.
    Enclosure design/blueprint, etc.

    I am sure there are DIYer's that have thought about this.


    Oh Colin, I dont need your Discover card number, just
    an address to send the bill.....[​IMG]
     
  4. Arthur_King

    Arthur_King Stunt Coordinator

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    Uh, unless you use the identical stuff from SVS, you obviously are not going to "replicate" it 100%.

    Aside from that, how about dual Shiva's with 380 rhythmic amp? Dual DVC 12" with a 500watt amp from Parts express.

    How about whipping out WinISD and diving in.

    Daffy Arthur King
    with the brain of a duck
     
  5. minhG

    minhG Stunt Coordinator

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    These posts always confuse me, if you want to replicate something exactly it's usually easier and cheaper just to buy the darn thing!

    If you're trying to compromise, thats a different story, but you still need to focus what you're trying to achive.

    I'm sure many people here could come up with a design that would give more output then a PB2+ for less money--but maybe the box would be bigger.

    or they could come up with something that fits in a smaller box but would require a lot of power

    Or they could get the box size to be the same, but it would not 'sound' the same.

    or ...

    there are a lot of factors here. the biggest one being that many of us have not heard a pb2+.

    If you just want crazy amounts of clean output, any of the adire audio vented alignments are scary loud, particularly the tempest and maelstrom ones. That would be a lot less then a PB2+, if the budget was bigger i'd use the Tumult which is supposed to give tighter output.

    If you gave us more info on what you're trying to achieve, it will be more productive then trying to 'copy' something. Just because the PB2+ is a great sub, doesn't mean it's the only design you should use.

    I've got a Shiva in the AA EBS alignment, total cost for me was well under $200 because I already had an amp. I'm powering it with 200W of power. It can easily shake my apartment building and at the same time give tight natural bass. Standup bass on Jazz recordings are phenomenal--sounds like i'm in the club, it's that natural.
    It suits me well in my apartment.
     
  6. Cam McFarland

    Cam McFarland Supporting Actor

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    I am too ignorant....... [​IMG]
     
  7. Rudi B

    Rudi B Stunt Coordinator

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    Almost the same drivers would be Stryke's AV12s or TC2+ from O Audio ...

    http://www.oaudio.com/

    It is all very tempting (even to me, I already have a PB2+ and I did DIY my main speakers), but the price point at which the SVS guys pull it off is really awesome. I doubt that it would pay off for a single sub in regards to buying all the required equpiment, wasted time,...
     
  8. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

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    If you would view it as a waste of time then yeah, don't DIY. Though I find it unfortunate that anyone could view building something that would give them years of enjoyment a waste of time. [​IMG]
     
  9. minhG

    minhG Stunt Coordinator

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    amen! if you enjoy the process then DIY is great, but if you consider it a PITA or chore--then DIY will end up costing you much more then just buying the pre-made product.
     
  10. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
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    AV12s will have a greater XMax than the SVS + drivers. They will also most likely have a greater power handling (thermal). What will be tough to do is find a box size allowing for the multiple tuning points at the same frequencies as the PB2+ (16hz, 20hz, and 25hz) while also optimizing for proper frequency response of the system.

    Also, w/ the dual VCs in series and the two drivers in series you'll have a total impedance of 8ohms. This won't get the most power out of any plate amp. You may want to use a pro amp that's stable to 2ohm and use the VCs in seires and the drivers in parallell for a net 2ohm load.

    Either way, a pair of AV12s ($350), a decent pro amp ($300) and $50 in lumber would be amazing. That said, you may be better going w/ a Tumult and a pro amp to save on enclosure size and gain a HUGE xmax and power handling.

    Hope this helps [​IMG]
     
  11. Rory Buszka

    Rory Buszka Supporting Actor

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    Stryke's AV12 drivers are very close. They sacrifice some efficiency and have a marginally higher inductance in order to gain more excursion capability. Their dual spiders are spaced about 1cm from each other unlike the SVS's which are simply bonded at the same points. The Stryke's dual spiders contribute to a slightly more stable suspension, and the 12-spoke stamped steel basket won't flex at all under demanding conditions. I don't know how much difference the cast frame makes over the stamped frame that SVS uses. Honestly, if TC Sounds makes it, then it is probably going to be really high quality. The biggest advantage for SVS of using the stamped basket is reduced cost, but there is also some reduced weight in there as well. I own an AV12 and though my box is not finished yet I have run the AV12 in free air with my 500w Parts Express amplifier and it is going to be one heck of a driver.
     
  12. Rudi B

    Rudi B Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey, that was the little voice of reason in me...

    Something like a PB2+ clone (at least to me) would be a big-ass project. The thing is huge. Finishing would probably be costly. Clamps cost, it is somewhat difficult to move such a box without a friend, ... It's just that the price at SVS is so low, that *I* see little reason in going thru all the hassles. The sheer weight of such big boxes baffles me.

    Now, don't get me wrong. DIYing rocks! I have a pair of GR AV/2s and I'm thinking about building 3 more this summer. Incredible price/performance ratio compared to the local retail speakers. And yeah, all the "wasted time" did repay itself quite nicely... [​IMG]


    Ok, back to cloning... A good plate amp would be Keiga 1kW...
     
  13. Cam McFarland

    Cam McFarland Supporting Actor

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    Actually I am planning on purchasing an Adire tempest,
    not sure which amp yet, & building an enclosure per the "ported adire" specs.

    The Tempest dual voice coils are both 8 ohm, what does that work out to as far as what the amp will be seeing?

    What am I trying to acompolish:

    I just looked at the SVS website & picked out a subwoofer that I though I might like & decided to try to build one that would be close to "or whatever" the PB2+.

    The one thing about being ignorant is you go through life
    happy, not knowing that you should be upset over the little stuff....[​IMG]

    Thanks guys........
     
  14. minhG

    minhG Stunt Coordinator

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    with the dual 8 ohm vcs you have 3 options.

    1) run each voice coil to a two channel amp (good if you have an older stereo amp or reciever lying around)

    2) run them in parallel for a 4ohm load (good for a plate amp, or a decent single channel of an amp)

    3) run then in series for a 16ohm load (least likely scenario but maybe you have a wierd reason)

    the ported tempests enclosures all give good output with moderate power, 150-250W would be plenty.
     
  15. Cam McFarland

    Cam McFarland Supporting Actor

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    Thanks Min.....[​IMG]


    Does anybody have any eperience with this plate amp ?

    Any thoughts ....also it does not appear to have a rumble filter...what would I do?
     
  16. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Rumble filters are not the "end all, be all" feature. If you are building a "killer" sub that will hit below 20Hz, you may not want a rumble filter on your amp because it might limit frequency response below 20Hz.

    There are plenty of us here running pro audio amps without rumble filters or sub-sonic filters. Also, consider the passive subs that SVS sold with the Samson amps. There were no rumble filters present there.
     
  17. Cam McFarland

    Cam McFarland Supporting Actor

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    [​IMG]

    Thanks Wayne.....I am just here absorbing it all like a sponge....shame there are so many holes......lol
     
  18. John E Janowitz

    John E Janowitz Second Unit

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    FYI, the statement about the stamped steel basket was incorrect. They use the 12 spoke cast aluminum basket, which has venting under the spider. Also, we are no longer having woofers made by TC Sounds. All woofers will now be made by hand here in our facility so I can keep a close eye on quality control.

    John
     
  19. Cam McFarland

    Cam McFarland Supporting Actor

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    Once again youse guys presume "I" know what "you" are talking about.....all I see is a bunch of graphs that mean
    ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to me.......[​IMG]
     

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