Receiver with real analogue passthrough?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Hartwig Hanser, Mar 11, 2002.

  1. Hartwig Hanser

    Hartwig Hanser Second Unit

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    With all the interesting discussions about the new preamps and using receivers as preamps I finally realized that it looks like most or all receivers digitize ALL analogue inputs, even if you just want to pass them through without any processing. Is this correct and why is it so?

    And even more important: Are there any receivers out there that have at least one analogue input where the signal can be just passed through without digitizing?

    I appreciate any input.
     
  2. Mal P

    Mal P Stunt Coordinator

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    Howdy,

    The L/R inputs on the 5.1 inputs in most receivers would not usually digitize the sound. Give that a go.

    Cheers,

    Mal
     
  3. PaulKH

    PaulKH Second Unit

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    Many receivers have a 'direct' or pass through mode for analog signals. My new Pioneer Elite 49TX receiver can pass through even 7.1 analog signals! [​IMG]
     
  4. Legairre

    Legairre Supporting Actor

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    It's an older model, but the Denon 3300 has a "Direct" mode that bypasses all digital processing. I'm pretty sure most of the Denons have it.
     
  5. Jason_Hil

    Jason_Hil Auditioning

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    the b&k recievers have real analog.
     
  6. brian a

    brian a Second Unit

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    FWIW. A guy at work today told me that his Yamaha digitizes everything.
     
  7. Jason_Hil

    Jason_Hil Auditioning

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    On note of the denons, the 3802 and up have true pure direct. Not any of the models under that, while they have direct, they are not true direct mode.
     
  8. Hartwig Hanser

    Hartwig Hanser Second Unit

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    Thanks for all the replies. The Denon example is one of those that left me wondering, since they call it pure direct, but I found no explicit mention that the signal is not digitized. So, it might be, that even in socalled direct modes the signal may pass through the A/D and D/A converters, but you don´t have any further processing. I just want to be sure and am annoyed that the manufactures don´t clearly state what they do to the signal.
     
  9. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Hartwig,

    I know that my Sherwood Newcastle AVP-9080 can do analog stereo for all the inputs in stereo. It is a feature of the pre/pro that I'm very happy about. I would guess that some of the Sherwood Newcastle receivers built on similar platforms would operate in a similar manner.
     
  10. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    so what (if any) method can someone use to determine whether a receiver does true bypass?

    it appears if it has some sort of 'source-direct' mode that would mean it was true bypass? are there any other indicators i can look for?

    i would hate to add an additional AD conversion if i didn't have to.
     
  11. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  12. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    thanks phillip!
     
  13. PaulKH

    PaulKH Second Unit

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    The manual for the Pioneer 49TX is online including internal wiring schematic. I don't remember how the 'direct' stuff goes exactly, but the diagram should show whether it goes through the DSPs or not.

    I just checked and it sure looks like the analog can go DIRECTLY through to the amps, and not through the DSPs.

    The receiver has 'MULTI-DIRECT' and 'MULTI-ADJUST' modes, the latter meaning you have DSP adjustment capabilities, and the former meaning you don't.
     
  14. Chuck Kent

    Chuck Kent Supporting Actor

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    Hartwig: While I agree that there are still many receivers out there that digitize every signal, I also feel that maybe the pendulum is swinging the "analog staying analog" way more and more. (Of course, as Mal points out, nearly any unit that has a 5.1 input is most likely all analog through those jacks.)

    One example I'm pretty familiar with is Denon. For at least 3 generations of Denon's, (maybe longer, but I'm sure about the 3) analog 2 channel signals can continue to be handled as analog, if the user wants. This has been published in national magazines and Denon marketing papers. And the analog pathways have been verified by at least one AVR-5700 owner (an engineer at a different forum) who studied the circuit schematic from his 5700's service manual.

    Essentially, 2 channel analog signals can be played back in either "regular" stereo analog mode or direct mode. This is possible due to the fact that Denon offers a "parallel" bass management on it's receivers. This means that 2 channel signals are split and one copy/half stays in the analog domain and the other is digitized. So, if you want to stay "analog", the signal stays analog, all the way through the analog (but digitally "controlled") volume control to the outputs.

    Depending on what your needs are, there are reasons why one might want to use direct over analog, or visa-versa. The main differences between the 2 pathways is that "regular" analog mode also offers the use of the analog tone controls and the analog highpass crossovers. Direct bypasses them. Both modes offer the use of the subwoofer, but direct allows the sub to be turned off (at least in the most recent Denons.) (BTW, the sub lowpass crossover is digital. When the incoming analog signal is split (as I mentioned above) the copy/half that gets digitized is passed on to the digital lowpass filter. I guess Denon's approach is that digitizing the bass isn't subjectively harmful. For me, I don't disagree.)

    It's also worth pointing out that Denon's Direct mode can also work when using a 2 channel digital signal. In this case, the analog tone controls and digital highpass crossover are bypassed (the sub remains available as earlier.)

    (BTW, based on statements Denon has printed, I believe that the parallel bass management setup is on the 28xx series and up. I've not been able to verify the 16xx or the 18xx models.)
     

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