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Robert Harris

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Boy am I pissed about the 4K digital release of TMWKTM! Finally had a chance to pick it up and all the digital platforms only have the 2.0 mono soundtrack with the 4K. But I noticed Vudu was claiming 5.1 with the HDX specs. So I thought I’d check that out. I went into Vudu settings and changed playback quality from 4K to HDX, sure enough it played back the Perspecta track (3.0 in a 5.1 container). So I can either choose 4K HDR or Perspecta, but not both at the same time. What a gyp!
The way to see this properly is high data throughput 4k disc.
 

Dave H

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Boy am I pissed about the 4K digital release of TMWKTM! Finally had a chance to pick it up and all the digital platforms only have the 2.0 mono soundtrack with the 4K. But I noticed Vudu was claiming 5.1 with the HDX specs. So I thought I’d check that out. I went into Vudu settings and changed playback quality from 4K to HDX, sure enough it played back the Perspecta track (3.0 in a 5.1 container). So I can either choose 4K HDR or Perspecta, but not both at the same time. What a gyp!

The 2.0 mono is the original track and what's rightfully on the UHD BD.
 
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BionicJim

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I'm not sure how it took me so long to discover this forum, but after purchasing the Hitchcock set to watch one of my favorites again, Rope, I watched The Man Who Knew Too Much next and was blown away by the gorgeous restoration. Mr. Harris discusses it in the included documentary and a quick Google search whisked me to HTF and now I am in happy land, though my wallet isn't.

I have a question about the credits in TMWKtM - why do they look like they were eaten by termites? Maybe this is an issue that has been addressed somewhere that I haven't found, yet. I've attached a couple of photos showing the Main titles and even a green marker through the Photographic Effects credit. I'm assuming that the restoration materials were credit free and these were snipped from best available, but it sure stuck out for me. Thankfully, the rest of the movie is superb. VistaVision, wow!
 

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Robert Harris

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Robert Harris
I'm not sure how it took me so long to discover this forum, but after purchasing the Hitchcock set to watch one of my favorites again, Rope, I watched The Man Who Knew Too Much next and was blown away by the gorgeous restoration. Mr. Harris discusses it in the included documentary and a quick Google search whisked me to HTF and now I am in happy land, though my wallet isn't.

I have a question about the credits in TMWKtM - why do they look like they were eaten by termites? Maybe this is an issue that has been addressed somewhere that I haven't found, yet. I've attached a couple of photos showing the Main titles and even a green marker through the Photographic Effects credit. I'm assuming that the restoration materials were credit free and these were snipped from best available, but it sure stuck out for me. Thankfully, the rest of the movie is superb. VistaVision, wow!
No. The Main Credit sequence was the original. The background plate did survive, but the title glass did not. Nor did the hold-back mattes.

The Main Titles in 1955 were a third generation element. Since it was faded, it had to be recombined with a fourth gen element - the Yellow master record.

Any anomalies that existed in 1955 would have been lost in the reduction printing from 8-perf original down to 4-perf 35mm matrices, and further hidden by dye transfer printing.

The overall softness and other problems would not have been seen in the 1956 prints, but in a 4k scan from the large format elements…

The green artifact was a bit of dirt that attached itself to the M record used in combining the various elements in creation of the original sequence.
 

Nick*Z

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I neglected to mention that I feel this film is ripe for reappraisal.
The Man Who Knew Too Much has never quite lived up to my expectations.

It's a fine film in many regards. I think the altering of the original characters so that Doris Day can sing a song that Hitchcock worked like mad to 'integrate' into the plot is still the most awkward thing about this production.

Especially so in Day's penultimate execution of that pop ditty as though it were an operatic aria, with pregnant pauses so that her hubby can channel into their kidnapped son whistling it from a locked bedroom three flights removed from the ballroom where she is actually performing it to a live audience. Yeah, I know. Take one from Hitch..."It's only a movie."

The intermittent rear projection used during the Marrakech market sequence is a mistake. I mean, this is VistaVision with its exceptional 'motion picture hi-fidelity'. And it looks primitive! Did they really have to use 'inserts' when so much of the film was actually shot there?!?

The piece de resistance remains the failed assassination at Royal Albert Hall, which holds up spectacularly. Day's dramatic performance is also one for the history books. A finer implosion of maternal panic after Day's mum learns her tot has been kidnapped has yet to be achieved by any actress on the big screen. She's exquisite.

But Day and James Stewart lack the appropriate screen chemistry - even as an 'old married couple' with a young son. They just don't seem to match up. He's more brotherly towards her than anything else. I think Day and Cary Grant would have been a better fit here.

Finally, Brenda de Banzie is a very affecting baddie turned good in the eleventh hour. She's an actress who really didn't get many opportunities to shine, but in this movie she excels at toggling between sinister and compassionate.

Hitchcock claimed that the original Man Who Knew Too Much was made by an amateur, the remake by a master. But I like the original more and more over the remake as time wears on. It has a ribald Brit-based flavor and, of course, Peter Lorre as the supreme baddie. It also has better hubby/wife chemistry in Edna Best and Leslie Banks.

Oh well, opinions will differ. Que sera sera!
 

Robert Harris

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The Man Who Knew Too Much has never quite lived up to my expectations.

It's a fine film in many regards. I think the altering of the original characters so that Doris Day can sing a song that Hitchcock worked like mad to 'integrate' into the plot is still the most awkward thing about this production.

Especially so in Day's penultimate execution of that pop ditty as though it were an operatic aria, with pregnant pauses so that her hubby can channel into their kidnapped son whistling it from a locked bedroom three flights removed from the ballroom where she is actually performing it to a live audience. Yeah, I know. Take one from Hitch..."It's only a movie."

The intermittent rear projection used during the Marrakech market sequence is a mistake. I mean, this is VistaVision with its exceptional 'motion picture hi-fidelity'. And it looks primitive! Did they really have to use 'inserts' when so much of the film was actually shot there?!?

The piece de resistance remains the failed assassination at Royal Albert Hall, which holds up spectacularly. Day's dramatic performance is also one for the history books. A finer implosion of maternal panic after Day's mum learns her tot has been kidnapped has yet to be achieved by any actress on the big screen. She's exquisite.

But Day and James Stewart lack the appropriate screen chemistry - even as an 'old married couple' with a young son. They just don't seem to match up. He's more brotherly towards her than anything else. I think Day and Cary Grant would have been a better fit here.

Finally, Brenda de Banzie is a very affecting baddie turned good in the eleventh hour. She's an actress who really didn't get many opportunities to shine, but in this movie she excels at toggling between sinister and compassionate.

Hitchcock claimed that the original Man Who Knew Too Much was made by an amateur, the remake by a master. But I like the original more and more over the remake as time wears on. It has a ribald Brit-based flavor and, of course, Peter Lorre as the supreme baddie. It also has better hubby/wife chemistry in Edna Best and Leslie Banks.

Oh well, opinions will differ. Que sera sera!
Re-appraisal does not elevate it to one of the greatest films ever made. Initially, much akin to Vertigo, a far superior film, it was quite unappreciated. And Vertigo also had the Hitchcock rear projections, as did virtually every one of his productions.

The man did not like shooting on location unless a necessity.
 

John Maher_289910

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I hate VERTIGO, so yes, opinion will differ. As for Cary Grant being a better choice than Jimmy Stewart, I don't think so. He and Day exhibit zero chemistry in THAT TOUCH OF MINK. My least favorite Doris Day film.
 
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mskaye

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I hate VERTIGO, so yes, opinion will differ. As for Cary Grant being a better choice than Jimmy Stewart, I don't think so. He and Day exhibit zero chemistry in THAT TOUCH OF MINK. My least favorite Doris Day film.
Why do you HATE Verrtigo? Hate is a strong word.
 

John Maher_289910

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Why do you HATE Verrtigo? Hate is a strong word.
I guess it is a strong word. I, actually, really like the first 30 minutes or so, but then it just becomes so stupid to me. I dislike every character in it, and find it ridiculous that he is obsessed by her. She sort of reminds me of The Astounding She Monster. Perhaps if Vera Miles had played the role as originally intended, I might feel differently. As it is I really dislike the majority of the film.
 

Robert Crawford

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I guess it is a strong word. I, actually, really like the first 30 minutes or so, but then it just becomes so stupid to me. I dislike every character in it, and find it ridiculous that he is obsessed by her. She sort of reminds me of The Astounding She Monster. Perhaps if Vera Miles had played the role as originally intended, I might feel differently. As it is I really dislike the majority of the film.
Damn, I feel ridiculous now since after seeing that movie I developed an obsession for Kim Novak too. :laugh:
 

mskaye

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I guess it is a strong word. I, actually, really like the first 30 minutes or so, but then it just becomes so stupid to me. I dislike every character in it, and find it ridiculous that he is obsessed by her. She sort of reminds me of The Astounding She Monster. Perhaps if Vera Miles had played the role as originally intended, I might feel differently. As it is I really dislike the majority of the film.
It's always been a film that polarizes film lovers. Me and my film school pals thought it was overrated when we first saw it way back when (1980 private print shown at Columbia.) Now, the titles, music, dream sequences, Sirkian visual touches and over the top obsessive melodramatic moments haunt me. The ending is quite downbeat and Jimmy Stewart is at his best. It's still not my fave or the most perfect Hitchcock but I its maybe the most abstract and despairing and the purest distillation of his classic style. And that score.
 

Trancas

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I guess it is a strong word. I, actually, really like the first 30 minutes or so, but then it just becomes so stupid to me. I dislike every character in it, and find it ridiculous that he is obsessed by her. She sort of reminds me of The Astounding She Monster. Perhaps if Vera Miles had played the role as originally intended, I might feel differently. As it is I really dislike the majority of the film.
I hear the lament that Vera Miles didn't play Madeleine but Vera was 29 in 1958 (Vertigo) and 31 in 1960 (Psycho). Whatever she had at 21 had dissipated by 31 and I don't think it was there at 29 either. She looks middle-aged in Psycho and I don't think it's just the bad wig. She looks like John Gavin's somewhat older sister instead of his potential new girlfriend.
Vera on Staircase.jpg

Vera confuseed.jpg

29282_2_1080p.jpg

Vera and John.jpg

Could Vera have played the simple-minded, slutty Judy Barton as well as Kim Novak? Could Vera have had the same "smolder" as a seemingly classy - but hot and cold - honeypot?
Vertigo Kim and Al.jpg
 

Nick*Z

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I hate VERTIGO, so yes, opinion will differ. As for Cary Grant being a better choice than Jimmy Stewart, I don't think so. He and Day exhibit zero chemistry in THAT TOUCH OF MINK. My least favorite Doris Day film.
I think it's Day that's the problem here.

I love her.

And with the right co-star, she is sheer magic on the screen. Personal favs that immediately come to mind; Love Me Or Leave Me - opposite that WB powerhouse, Cagney; Calamity Jane, with the great baritone, Howard Keel, Romance on the High Seas, with the riotous Jack Carson, and, of course, Pillow Talk, with Rock Hudson.

Hudson and Day had something that she never achieved with her other costars. Her antiseptic virginity clicking perfectly with his closeted homosexuality. The piquant scenes in Pillow Talk where he 'feigns' at being fey "mmmm, ain't these tasty!" to wrangle out of a marriage proposal are hilarious.

I'll concur, That Touch of Mink is a mess, but I wouldn't dump it all in Cary Grant's lap. After all, a well-aged Grant is exquisite opposite Audrey Hepburn in Charade.
 

John Maher_289910

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I hear the lament that Vera Miles didn't play Madeleine but Vera was 29 in 1958 (Vertigo) and 31 in 1960 (Psycho). Whatever she had at 21 had dissipated by 31 and I don't think it was there at 29 either. She looks middle-aged in Psycho and I don't think it's just the bad wig. She looks like John Gavin's somewhat older sister instead of his potential new girlfriend.
View attachment 211517
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Could Vera have played the simple-minded, slutty Judy Barton as well as Kim Novak? Could Vera have had the same "smolder" as a seemingly classy - but hot and cold - honeypot?
View attachment 211520
That's hair and make-up. Take a look at Vera a year or so later, in BACK STREET. She and John Gavin look incredible together. Not at all like brother and sister. Vera looks better to me than Kim in Liberty Valance! So a matter of taste, I guess.
 

John Maher_289910

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I think it's Day that's the problem here.

I love her.

And with the right co-star, she is sheer magic on the screen. Personal favs that immediately come to mind; Love Me Or Leave Me - opposite that WB powerhouse, Cagney; Calamity Jane, with the great baritone, Howard Keel, Romance on the High Seas, with the riotous Jack Carson, and, of course, Pillow Talk, with Rock Hudson.

Hudson and Day had something that she never achieved with her other costars. Her antiseptic virginity clicking perfectly with his closeted homosexuality. The piquant scenes in Pillow Talk where he 'feigns' at being fey "mmmm, ain't these tasty!" to wrangle out of a marriage proposal are hilarious.

I'll concur, That Touch of Mink is a mess, but I wouldn't dump it all in Cary Grant's lap. After all, a well-aged Grant is exquisite opposite Audrey Hepburn in Charade.
I have no issue with Day or Stewart in the film. I was just mentioning the lack of chemistry between Grant and Day in a single film, as a response to someone else suggesting Grant. I can't say I ever noticed a lack of chemistry between Doris Day and anyone else. She is excellent in everything to me, including THAT TOUCH OF MINK. It's Grant I have an issue with in it. He doesn't seem to want to be in it (which is probably true).
 

jim_falconer

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I hate VERTIGO, so yes, opinion will differ. As for Cary Grant being a better choice than Jimmy Stewart, I don't think so. He and Day exhibit zero chemistry in THAT TOUCH OF MINK. My least favorite Doris Day film.
I picked up Vertigo on BD a few years back, and after watching it, was very disappointed in wasting 2 hours of my time on such an awful film. After reading so many positive comments about film, I felt maybe I missed something the first time. I dusted it off once again this past Fall and gave it another shot. A truly unenjoyable experience. I put the BD in a pile designated for Goodwill.
And just to be clear, in my mind James Stewart is an absolute American icon of an actor…one of the very best ever.
 

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