Please Watch Firefly tonight (1 Viewer)

[Patrick Sun]

Don't ask me why Joss thought it'd be a good idea to do a show with 9 characters on a space ship looking for jobs, hopping from one planet to another planet.

I think he got ahead of the story he was trying to tell. It's like he already had the backstory of all of his new characters in his head. The problem was that he neglected to fill the rest of the audience into all that backstory to give us a reason to hang around for a much larger story arc with the way the episodes have been shown on Fox.

 

[Dominik Droscher]

The problem was that he neglected to fill the rest of the audience into all that backstory to give us a reason to hang around for a much larger story arc with the way the episodes have been shown on Fox.

Well, if Fox would have shown the actual Pilot which they felt was too slow and with too much emphasize on the character introduction we would know a lot more about them. It was not Whedon who "neglected to fill the audience into all the backstory", it was Fox.

 

[Patrick Sun]

The pilot still had 9 characters. It might have been better to introduce the crew (Mal, Wash, his wife, Jayne, and Kaylee) in the pilot (fill in a little backstory), and then have them take on the other passengers as the series rolled along.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The pilot still had 9 characters. It might have been better to introduce the crew (Mal, Wash, his wife, Jayne, and Kaylee) in the pilot (fill in a little backstory), and then have them take on the other passengers as the series rolled along.

I dunno... the thing that keeps me tuning in is the strong ensemble the show has.

While "Serendipity" didn't have complete character introduction, it DID have an emotional hook... the story of the Doc and his sister. As it is, there wasn't any such emotional hook.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I'm talking about the average viewer, not us fans of large emsemble sci-fi dramatic/comedic/action series.

 

[Jason Seaver]

Right. I mean, sure, we like "Firefly" - but how do you convince a general audience to see this; Fox needs more than a niche for this to be a success.

And "Firefly" has a tough row to hoe there; so far, the characters are pretty simple types, it's visually not nearly as striking as other shows set in space, and it's a cross-genre thing that may be too weird for some.

I do think "Firefly" is improving some on that; the new open, for instance, is less arch and gives the audience a better feel for the backstory. I suspect that Fox is running episodes out of order to try and get as many of the space-based and more mainstream ones on first. But ultimately, I'm afraid that this series is too quirky to catch on with the general audience.

 

[Mike St.Louis]

Pat, could you tell me why Joss thought it'd be a good idea to do a show with 9 characters on a space ship looking for jobs, hopping from one planet to another planet?

 

[Brad Grenz]

Pat, could you tell me why Joss thought it'd be a good idea to do a show with 9 characters on a space ship looking for jobs, hopping from one planet to another planet?

He wanted something openended. I've always thought of Buffy and Angel as being, generally, close ended shows. Both end pretty much when the title characters martyr themselves. That or they win, which I'm not sure is possible. You can't utterly defeat evil. It's like Star Trek: Voyager that way. They're eventually going to make it home, and when they do, it's over. Firefly has an uninhibited, Next Generation thing going for it. Generation had an assload of characters, so does Enterprize for that matter, and what do they do but go from system to system looking for something to do? It's not as unprecidented a formula as some would make it out to be. I was worried about the number of characters at first too, but from what I've seen so far (and that's including the original pilot) the only character that seems under-represented to me is River. They've balanced things pretty well so far. And we're only 7 eps in.

Also, by setting a western in space the writers get to play with the litany of cliches and conventions from both genres, doubling their money, if you will.

Anyone know what the orinial episode order was? Are we sure we're not just offset by the missing first two (1.1 and 1.2)?

 

[Dominik Droscher]

Brad, here is an episode listing. They are ordered in the way they were shown but the produciton number still shows the actual order. So we watched 1 and 2 first, then 5, 6 and 7, and will now get 3 and 4 ...
“The Train Job”
1AGE01
Writers: Joss Whedon & Tim Minear
Director: Joss Whedon
Airdate: 9/20/02
Summary
“Bushwhacked”
1AGE02
Writer: Tim Minear
Director: Tim Minear
Airdate: 9/27/02
Summary
“Our Mrs. Reynolds”
1AGE05
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Vondie Curtis Hall
Airdate: 10/4/02
Summary
“Jaynestown”
1AGE06
Writer: Ben Edlund
Director: Marita Grabiak
Airdate: 10/18/02
Summary
“Out of Gas”
1AGE07
Writer: Tim Minear
Director: David Solomon
Airdate: 10/25/02
Summary
“Shindig”
1AGE03
Writer: Jane Espenson
Director: Vern Gillum
Airdate: 11/1/02
“Safe”
1AGE04
Writer: Drew Z. Greenberg
Director: Michael Grossman
Airdate: 11/8/02
"Ariel"
1AGE08
Writer: Jose Molina
Director: Alan Kroaker
Airdate: 11/15/02
"War Stories"
1AGE09
Writer: Cheryl Cain
Director: Jim Contner
Airdate: 11/22/02
Untitled
1AGE10
Writer: ?
Director: Tom Wright
Airdate: 12/6/02
Untitled
1AGE11
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Joss Whedon
Airdate: 12/13/02
"Serenity"
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Joss Whedon
Airdate: 12/20/02

 

[Phil Florian]

I think audiences aren't too averse to larger ensembles. ER has a giant cast, MASH had a giant cast, Hill Street Blues had a giant cast, West Wing has a large cast, etc. Cheers anyone? Even Friends, while not giant, still has more than a few folks in it. And then there are the apt comparisons above to sci-fi shows with largish casts. Sopranos? I mean, look at the stereotypical soap opera...people can share stories about the zillion characters on that and can express their arc for the last 20 years. So I don't think a largish ensemble is the problem. If anything, do these wandering solo shows succeed for very long? Beyond Quantum Leap, that is. Nowhere Man? VR5? John Doe? Er...John Doe?

I think it is more along the lines of being too high a concept for a general audience and not nearly geeky enough for the hardcore sci-fi folks. The middle ground of character driven story in a cool environment appeals to less people than Joss thought, I guess. Here is hoping we get at least a full season.


Phil

 

[Thomas D]

“Jaynestown”
1AGE06
Writer: Ben Edlund

That's not the same Ben Edlund as in Ben Edlund, The Creator of The Tick, is it?

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Thomas, indeed it IS that Ben Edlund

 

[MickeS]

So "Firefly" had a 3.0/6 rating, is that enough?

 

[Jason Seaver]

Who knows? It depends who those ~3M people are, whether the show gains momentum or loses it over the next month, etc. Fox is going to use a lot more than just that one number to make that decision.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

A rare occurance, Jason and I agree on this one Fox will not just tkae the rating

 

[Phil Florian]

I certainly hope not. At least get us through to December to see if it has some legs. Are the remaining episodes in the can already? Would they cancel a show even though the money has been spent and footage shot? That seems even a more monumental waste.

Phil

 

[Dominik Droscher]

Phil, Fox ordered 3 more episodes last week so I suppose they are still on track. Episode 9, War Stories, was shot last week and the original Pilot still has to be shown. So if it wold get sacked now which I don't hope we would at least have 4 more episodes and the 2 hour Pilot.

 

[Phil Florian]

Sweet sweet information. Thanks!

Phil

 

[Jason Seaver]

Fox will not just tkae the rating

Right. For example, we don't get the 1/2-hour breakdowns. For example, if "Firefly" is shedding viewers from 8 to 8:30, that's obviously bad. Also, News Corp. may decide that even with relatively low ratings, "Firefly" will still sell well on DVD or to Sci-Fi for its third-run.

And "girls club" being cancelled may help it - Fox doesn't need two giant holes in its schedule (and it also opens up a timeslot where I, personally, am not watching anything).

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

And "girls club" being cancelled may help it - Fox doesn't need two giant holes in its schedule (and it also opens up a timeslot where I, personally, am not watching anything).

I personally prefer the Friday slot, but would love for it to move to the Girl's club slot if it meant more viewers (which it almost certainly would, Friday being a social night and all).