Paradigm or SVS? (1 Viewer)

[Paul Chalk]

I'm having a hard time trying to decide which sub to get, a PW-2200 or an SVS PC. Because I live in Canada I can get Paradigm products fairly cheap. After a phone call to my local Paradigm dealer, and some calculations I have come up with these prices (the SVS prices are rough estimates, give or take about 50 bucks)

Paradigm PW-2200 - $990 MSRP plus tax (can easily bargain down to $800 or even lower, I've heard of one guy getting it for $670)

SVS 25-31PC - $1325 inc. tax

SVS 20-39PC - $1460 inc. tax

SVS 16-46PC - $1580 inc. tax

My HT room is about 1000 cubic feet and it's attached to another room that's about 1500 cubic feet, so I don't have to worry about the sub being too small. I use my system for about 65% music and 35% movies. I've read many reviews, and it seems the PW-2200 isn't as fast and clean as the SVS's, but I can't make that judgement because I can't audition them. So I have a couple questions:

1) I've already listened to the PW-2200 and I like it a lot. Will I see a drastic improvement if I choose to get an SVS? Are the extra costs of the SVS's over the PW-2200 worth it?

2) It's possible for me to get 2 PW-2200's for relatively the same price as the 20-39PC. I'm guessing I will get more bass with the 2 PW-2200's, but will the cleaner, faster bass of the SVS's be better?

 

[Dustin B]

If you like the PW2200 a lot, in a combined room of that size I would think you would be a lot better off with 2 PW2200s than one 20-39.

In the US the increased price of of the Paradigm makes the SVS a much easier call. In Canada two PW2200 will easily out gun a single 20-39. They will just have slightly less extension, a few hz or so.

With the price being almost equivalent I guess it will come down to whether you think the SVS will sound sufficiently better to forgo the increased output of twin 2200s. Not being able to hear the SVS makes that very hard to do. I've heard the PW2200 but haven't heard the SVS. Where is Okotoks? If it's close to Calgary or Edmonton there has to be someone in one of these cities willing to demo their SVS for you.

Personally I'd go with the twin 2200s in your situation.

 

[Paul Chalk]

Okotoks is about 25 km south of Calgary. But because I'm a high school student and I don't have my own vehicle, I don't get into Calgary too often. Doing an audition at someone's home would be difficult for me to do.

 

[Dustin B]

But it is the only way you'll be able to know for sure without eating the shipping cost on an SVS.

Come to think of it can you get the brokerage and tax back if you return it?

 

[Salvador]

Paul or can i call you oogins? well anyway i'm also in the same situation as you since i still don't have a sub to match the 20's. If i had the money right now, i would be willing to bite the bullet and take the risk, based of course on all the good things i've heard about SVS in this forum and other websites. Don't take for granted though the taxes and brokerage fees that they charge you. Here's a breakdown of someone who has bought an SVS sub here in toronto:

To all the Canadian folks with questions on cost mine broke down like this : GST $92.24

Ont.PST $105.41

Brokerage Fee $62.00

GST on Brokerage fee $4.34

Total Taxes Etc. $263.99

Add this to the $799.00 U.S which turned out to be $1366.01

The total came to $1630.00

Sorry Salvador,

I neglected to include the $55.00 U.S. for shipping. My mistake

he ordered a CS 20-36 w/samson700 amp

When i get enough money (probably summer 2003), i'll probably get a 16-46PC+

 

[Dustin B]

You could easily get a Servo15 for that. I'd definately take a Servo15 over a 20-39.
Unless you can DIY. If you have or have access to the tools and the idea intrigues you, I'd highly recommend building your own. Follow the link in my sig and or go the the DIY section (just above the first post there is a link to sonotube projects, lots of examples there).
For comparison, mine cost me just over $800 CDN to build and should match a pair of SVS 20-39 subs. It's something to hear the ball explosion in the TPM THX intro at almost 110dB at your listening position

 

[Salvador]

this hobby is nuts though. i haven't been studying this past week because all i've been doing is browsing through this forum and listening to my system. I think i have to put a stop to this while its early in the semester. My motivation this semester will be an SVS sub and a Stratos amp.
i'll probably lay off this forum for a while and concentrate on my studies. Univeristy of Toronto ain't making it easy for me you know.

 

[Everett A]

From what I've read, though, the main benefit that svs brings is the cleanliness and "speed" of the bass, not just the output levels.

I can tell you for sure though, once I get my svs in a couple of days.

 

[Paul Chalk]

Paul or can i call you oogins?

If I can find a decent amp within the next couple weeks I'll probably pick up the 25-31CS. I calculated that to be about $850. Not too bad, but I will still need to spend more for an amp.

 

[Howard_S]

I would go with the Servo 15 especially since you're more interested in music. The SVS are known to produce a lot of bass but I have heard criticism in terms of musical performance. I think that if we were in the US the SVS's price may be attractive but since we're in Canada it makes Paradigm much more attractive since our loonie is dropping lower and lower.

 

[Paul Chalk]

I have a hard time believing a 15" inch sub can be musical. Granted, I haven't heard it yet. But I just always assumed subs 12" or less were better for the fast dynamics of music.

 

[Steve Winkler]

Hey neighbor. Paul, I live by the enormous hamlet of Indus, Alberta , a mere 35 minutes from you. I have a SVS 20-39PC and it is one sweet unit. However, given the ever sliding loonie (under 62 cents today), seriously look at the either 2 PW-2200's or a single servo-15. The Paradigms are excellent subs and I probably should've demoed one in home before I bought the SVS. Another however just to make your decision no easier, the svs performs very well. I'm not sure how accurate my readings are but with my RS spl meter, I have attained 118db at my listening position with just the one sub. This was with the dts track on Titan A.E. It rumbles and it is smooth and I think it sounds very good with music. I have bottomed it out once with Toy Story 2 but I had my sub level a bit too high at that point. As for $$$, I paid the following:
$749.00US +$51.50US shipping for the sub X 1.56=$1248.78CAN+
$144.00CAN to UPS for Brokerage & GST for a total of $1392.78 CAN. Ouch.
Cheers,
Steve

 

[Dustin B]

Paul, cone size has nothing to do with how the sub will sound. The most important factor is the enclosure, the next is the strength of the driver's motor. An Adire Malestrom (18" driver) in a proper enclosure will walk all over a 10" driver in a not quite optimal enclosure. It will also play loads louder and lower.

I thought as you did when I started to learn about this stuff. Smaller driver means easier to control, so better bass. I've since learned otherwise. And can speak from experience in that my 15" Adire Tempest DIY has noticably better sound quality wise than my old 10" Paradigm. And absolutely crushes it output and extension wise.

 

[Howard_S]

Paul. It really depends on whether you like to use a sub for music or not. But for the sake of comparison you will find that the Servo 15 has gotten pretty rave reviews about its musicality while from what I've heard musicality is SVS's weakness. I'm not saying SVS isn't good because a lot of people absolutely love it. But I think it's pretty fair to say that SVS subs are better for movies than for music or for people who value bass output.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>Paul. It really depends on whether you like to use a sub for music or not. But for the sake of comparison you will find that the Servo 15 has gotten pretty rave reviews about its musicality while from what I've heard musicality is SVS's weakness. I'm not saying SVS isn't good because a lot of people absolutely love it. But I think it's pretty fair to say that SVS subs are better for movies than for music or for people who value bass output.

 

[Dustin B]

I hope Jack doesn't mind, but I'm gonna quote him a couple times from a thread in the DIY section here:

I don't know if you guys are actually serious, but a "loony", as defined in my statement, would be someone who regards "musicality" and "loud and flat" as mutually exclusive. Both of the these qualities are inherent in certain designs, like an EBS, no real mystery.

The SVS 20-39 will be very close to, if not an EBS allignment. It will sound great for both. The Servo might have a slight edge (given it is a sealed design with a servo feedback circuit). But from what I've read the gap will be rather small. Small enough that I doubt that given each calibrated to the same level on the same system, I highly doubt you could tell them appart in a blind listening test.

Last thing I'll say is, I agree with Jack, a sub either does both well or neither well. I don't like sloppy boomy bass for my DVD watching and I don't like it for my music listening either. If a sub can produce the frequencies it is asked to accurately and with authority it will work fine for both music and movies.

 

[SVS-Ron]

"If a sub can produce the frequencies it is asked to accurately and with authority it will work fine for both music and movies."

Well said Dustin, you and Jack G. have both made this point before and we fully agree with it. It's amazing the number of folks that cling to the theory that there are subs that are more "musical" and some "only good for movies".

Certainly there are subs that ONLY perform well with the typically less demanding music bass (and suffer when more serious low and loud bass is called for) but if this is what folks mean by "musical" subs... they can have them.

The reviews of excellent "HT subs" are usually excellent for music too (though calibration levels can vary widely for each application. This is more a matter of taste however). A thorough read of our reviews page should illustrate this well. I can't recall a single customer that felt music suffered with one of the better subs we recommend, ours or others we know to be good performers.

Ron

 

[Sebastien David]

just thought i'd pitch in saying i love my $670 Pw-2200...

still can't believe i paid that low a price, without even trying to bargain!

 

[Daniel_M]

I spent six months doing research and

listening to a dozen different brands

of subs.

The Servo 15 was by far the best sub I

heard for under $5000.

Dan

 

[Paul Chalk]

I'm becoming more interested in the Servo 15. From the reviews I read on audioreview.com many people are claiming it's an excellent sub. I'm just wondering, because the sub is 15" would it be able to keep up to very fast music? Some music I listen to is quite fast, like metal, punk and techno.