Oklahoma And State Fair Arrive (1 Viewer)

[GregK]

Regarding the current Oklahoma TODD-AO mess, I found an interesting post in the rec.arts.movies.tech usernet forum

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Wow. Wonder if they can squeeze out any info on why the decision was made to release this inferior version in the first place.

I mean...with HD formats just around the corner...wouldn't it make sense to do decent 1080P film-tape transfers *now* and use them for current DVD editions as well?

 

[Carlos_M_Nash]

When I buy CDs or DVDs, I expect a quality product. Therefore, I have no qualms at pointing out shoddy productions. I like this idea of 'worst of...'. I hadn't seen the new DVD release of Oklahoma!, so I can't really comment yet.

One DVD I have problems with is Sony's release of Oliver! I swear I have heard a better version of the soundtrack -- I just can't place where. Perhaps it was a laserdisc.

 

[TedD]

You are behind the times, David

Direct film to tape is no longer optimum, and 1080P transfers are also way behind the curve if we want the ultimate (at least today's ultimate) image quality for our DVD's and future HD media.

Today, to be state of the art, it should be a 4K pixel transfer, done on a high resolution scanner. 1080P would be a 2K pixel transfer.

Also, state of the art transfers (or, more properly, scans) are no longer performed to tape in the video realm. The scans are captured on a large array of hard disks, because the data rate at 4K x 10 or 12 bits color depth per pixel per color represent data rather than a video signal and are too large to put directly on tape. Since 4K scanning is also not normally performed in a real time environment, the asynchronous clocking of the output data would also cause problems when trying to output to tape.

When the media needs to be moved, it can either be backed up onto data tapes (not video) and shipped, or can be sent via high speed telecom facilities to the destination.

When the data arrives at the destination, it is restored to an array of hard disks and is downsampled, or manipulated to produce the final media.

This is the new world and it is the mechanism that is responsible for what we see on the best DVD releases.

Here is some fascinating reading material on the restoration and 4K transfers for R&H's "Carousel":

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2005/cinemascope/55.htm
http://www.theasc.com/magazine/june0...cus/page1.html
http://www.in70mm.com/news/2005/cine...e/carousel.htm


Ted

 

[DaViD Boulet]

4K...of course

Not only is that better for archival/restoration purposes because of the higher resolution...but it allows for a superior 1080P master as the higher frequencies in the 4K image can be "mapped" down to 1080P to preserve more apparent detail than just using a brick-wall filter as would be needed for a straight-1080P transfer.

I use "film-tape" as a general phrase...just like we use "anamorphic" for 16x9 encoded DVD.

Are industry folks saying "film-disc" or using some other phrase to differentiate between the technology used for a film-digital transfer? Perhaps that's the best phrase of all..."film-to-digital"...that covers it all!

dave

p.s. Great links!

 

[Mark B]

In the TODD-AO Oklahoma! watch Aunt Eller's lips during "I don't say I'm no better than anybody else...."

Her mouth says "I'll be DAMNED if I ain't just as good." The soundtrack is DANGED, of course.

I think Shirley Jones and Nick Redman were watching the old DVD during their commentary, because they talk about the day-for-night scenes, which on the new DVD were, as reported earlier, muffed.

 

[JPCinema]

I made my call to Fox today. I was told to call back next week for an answer.

 

[frank manrique]

Well, I hope Fox call us all who bought their latest Oklahoma! 50th Anniversary DVD set and do the right thing...'cus the Todd-AO version is an absolute visual abomination.

After viewing the gorgeous CinemaScope version...I had to clean my glasses over and over thinking it was them which made the 70mm version look like it had gobs and gobs of vaseline smeared over the lenses. Yuck! What a joke.

And I too agree that the shots that were supposed to be taking place at night are anything but...so Fox needs to fix that too...among many other things. And they believe we all are pirates...

-THTS

 

[john a hunter]

Any news as to whether Fox will recall or reissue that mess that they call the Todd-ao version of Oklahoma?

 

[Jefferson]

I know that Warner reissued KISS ME KATE after some of our complaints.
I hope that Fox does the same.
But what will we do with our old discs if that happens?
Coasters anyone?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Fox isn't as quick to admit error and repress. Remember...there's "no lip sync issue with DTS on Moulin Rouge" in Fox-speak...

 

[Thomas T]

I don't know ..... Fox did pretty well accomodating those Cleopatra replacements.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

good point.

 

[Joe Caps]

However, Fox didn't fix missing Intermission music in STAR.
They still have missing Exit Music act One and INtermission Music in DIARY OF ANNE FRANK.
the Overture for the film IS there, but is not attached to the mpovie in the right way. All of this is correct on the old Laserdisc, so Fox certainly knew how it should go.

 

[Thomas T]

Joe,

The intermission and entracte omission from Diary Of Anne Frank was apparently intentional, done at the request of George Stevens Jr. (who provides commentary along with Millie Perkins). Apparently Stevens Sr. never wanted an intermission break but gave in to Fox's intention to present it as a full blown roadshow attraction. Stevens Jr. requested the elimination of the intermission and entracte per his father's original wishes.

Still, it would have been nice if Fox had given us a branching option like the special edition West Side Story DVD which allows us to play it with an intermission and entracte should we choose to do so. Robert Wise (like George Stevens) didn't want an intermission and most theatres honored that request but United Artists provided an intermission point and entracte for theatres that chose to do so.

 

[Patrick McCart]

It's the end of the week. Is the verdict out, yet?

 

[Joe Caps]

Thomas T - INtermission, etc for Anne Frank was indeed taken out per request of Stevens Jr. - but that is something he made up out of his head.
When Fox requested stevens shorten the movie for a second run, Fox also took out the intermission because the film was now almost a half hour shorter.
I have seen a letter from Stevens Sr. to Fox protesting the removal of the intermission even in the short version, because he thought that without a break, the film would be too intense and the audience needed a break. If Steveans wanted the intermission in the short version, he certainly wanted it in the even longer version.

 

[john a hunter]

Has anyone been able to speak to Fox and find out whether they are going to repress the Todd AO mess?
I'm in Sydney so it's a bit difficult for me.
Hopefully some kind person stateside will know what's happening and let us all know.

 

[GerardoHP]

The Rodgers and Hammerstein Organization's response to my complaint about the Todd AO Oklahoma! transfer:



Thoughts, anyone?

 

[Mark B]

I think it's a lame, bulls#:t-ridden excuse. I don't buy it. I got the same email today and am still pissed.