Oklahoma And State Fair Arrive (1 Viewer)

[Patrick McCart]

Around the World in 80 Days (also Todd-AO) has some day-for-night shots, too. In the old pan & scan transfer, several of these were timed incorrectly, giving away the trick. On the DVD, they're properly timed.

 

[Jefferson]

I'm absolutely stunned.
I've posted before that when the (then) elusive TODD AO version was finally made available for purchase on laserdisc in the mid nineties,
I was elated.

I found it to be fresher, and sharper and more colorful,
in sound, picture and performance.
Now, to find out that this version is the one that looks awful on the newest release, well... (to borrow a phrase from one of the few songs they cut for the film version)
"ITS A SCANDAL! ITS A OUTRAGE!":frowning:

 

[Mark-P]

I must say, I have found this thread to be terribly discouraging. I did not buy the earlier DVDs of Oklahoma!, The King & I, and Carousel simply because I was holding out for 16x9 upgrades. I have the Laserdisc edition of the Todd-AO version of Oklahoma! which was stunning (in it's day, probably not so much now). So I was eagerly anticipating buying the new Oklahoma! DVD. I will still buy it, but I must admit that I'm a little taken back by the vehement negativity some people have towards the Todd-AO version on this set. I'm hoping it's not as bad as they are making it out. You can't really tell much from the one screen-cap that has been posted in this thread.

 

[Will Krupp]

Sorry Mark, but it is. I'm not getting that from a screencap, but from watching it (in horror)

I suggest you pick up the flawed, but superior, older dvd while you still can. It's got a mass of problems, to be sure, but you can still get the impression of what a fabulous treat it must have been to see in Todd-AO.

There's still alot of color, depth and clarity amidst the artifacts (at least on a 32 inch screen) and that opening shot of the blue sky as we clear the cornfield is quite a "wow."

No depth, no sharpness, no brightness, and no "Wow" factor anywhere on the new disc. And for all of the "color correction," Shirley's dress STILL varies from blue to pale purple from shot to shot.

You'll see for yourself once you get it, but I wouldn't prepare to be pleasantly surprised if I were you.

 

[JPCinema]

I was hoping the comments about the new Todd-ao "Oklahoma" being a terrible transfer were overreactions.
I watched the new disc tonight and I was shocked! It is truly horrible. Muddy, blurry and excessively grainy. How very sad to have this amazing Todd-ao shot film look like a badly transferred public domain title.
I wish Fox would recall the disc and do it right.
Now I have concerns about next years "South Pacific" and "King and I"

 

[MatthewA]

I don't understand how Fox could allow this. This is the first Todd-AO film and it should look gorgeous.

 

[TedD]

My theory is that Fox didn't spring for a new transfer. Take the old transfer, interpolate it to 480 lines, filter the h**l out of it to hide all the original problems, screw with the gamma and the levels, and:

Presto you have the new "improved" 50th anniversary edition. Horrible! Fox should be so ashamed, and the R&H estate should have made Fox do it right.

Sound of Music is better, but it suffers at times from a red color bleed issue on the right side of the image. Look at the scene when Maria is standing outside the gate when she is about to enter the Von Trapp villa. I am beginning to suspect this is a problem in the 4K 65mm scanners, since it shows up in both "Ben Hur" and SOM. I can supply screen caps if anyone is interested..... EE has been reduced from horrible to merely bad.

The real good news in the new releases is "State Fair".

The 1945 version looks extremely good, but my jaw dropped with amazement when I popped in the 1962 version.

It's certainly the best transfer of a RH non 1.33:1 film so far.

Amazing detail. Color is typical Deluxe, not great, but very servicable.

Look at the detail of the cows on the far hill. The detail in Pamela Tiffens hair when she sings "It might As Well Be Spring". The legibility of the text on the I.A.T.S.E. bug on the main titles. Throughout, the detail level continues to impress.

I guess we should look on the bright side....At least we now have outstanding transfers of 2 versions of one of the R&H musicals.

Ted

 

[Jefferson]

I didnt think i could continue to get sicker over this.
Yipes.
It is discouraging to hear that such a minor film as the 1962 STATE FAIR was (not the original, i love that one)...is the stunning looking film in this batch.
Eek.
Perhaps the Frake family spiked the mincemeat over at Fox?

 

[Mark B]

Do you think this one is so good because they actually had to create the digital element and didn't have old ones to fall back on?

 

[TedD]

Exactly! This one got the advantage of a new transfer from film on a state-of-the-art scanner, at least 2K, possibly even 4K resolution.

I just get done watching the entire film and I can't remember ever seeing a transfer of a 1960's film that looked so much like film and so little like video in my HT. Thats on a 5' x 12' screen viewed from a distance of 14' or so. Almost no EE, wonderful fine detail, natural film grain structure. Heck, even the trailer looked great.

After watching this one, I think that Hollywood should just junk any and all transfers not done in the last year or so and start from scratch, using the best scanners available today.

Aside from the technical details, Pamela Tiffin and Ann-Margret..... Yumm.

Ted

 

[Joe Caps]

I have a feeling that because this film (62 State Fair) is considered minor, everyone else kept their damn hands off it. With major titles, you often have a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth.
Someone has done something with the sound here, because the 62 State fair sounds far better than it has in years.

 

[Greg_M]

Great to hear that the 1962 "State Fair" is a great transfer. It's the only one I looking forward to purchasing.

 

[felipenor]

Why isn't the original State fair on the dvd two? I wish it was...

 

[TedD]

It is. It's a 2 disc set with disc 1 having the original version and disc 2 having the 1962 version.

Vern

 

[Mark-P]

I think he was referring to the "other" original version, the 1933 Black & White film.

 

[TedD]

Ah, I see.


And it was a Fox release as well.

The libretto for "State Fair" was written in 1945. The 1933 version was a straight comedy. I guess Fox didn't have viable elements, or maybe just didn't want to spend the money.

Anyhow, I would be against putting anything on the second disc that would reduce the bit rate on the 1962 version.

Ted

 

[felipenor]

I thought there could only be one original version! lol Anyway, I wish Fox would release it, whether in this set or not. Just look what Warners have done with The Wizard of Oz!

 

[Bob Graham]

Anyway, I wish Fox would release it, whether in this set or not.

Well, it would make a good candidate if Fox were to decide to do a Will Rogers set...

 

[Roger Rollins]

Sorry, but I doubt there are many people, if any people working at 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment that would know how to respond to that except to say..."Will, who?"

Sad.

We see evidence of this in so much they do. They're finally releasing a Betty Grable musical. Although Grable's films don't hold up very well today, there are a few that still entertain nicely due to the talents and fine music involved.
So Fox looks at her filmogrphy and they release one of her weakest "PIN-UP GIRL", just because of the title.

She is known to people who don't know film, because of her famous '40s pin-up posters during WWII. So they go "Yeah, that's what we should release..."

Sad.

RETURN TO PEYTON PLACE canonized as a FOX STUDIO CLASSIC?
A wretched film that got terrible reviews, made no money, and can't hold a candle to the original, which does have its virtues...

Of course! Some "brand manager" who came to Fox after selling hair care products (but knows nothing about movies)probably made that choice.

And of course we come to this OKLAHOMA! travesty.

They tried to get it right. Provide both versions. Try to put together some nice extras....

MASSIVE FAILURE! WHAT A HEARTBREAK!

I saw both versions at a friend's home last evening, and while the Scope version is "nice", it's nothing to write home about, and the TODD-AO version is indeed as horrible as everyone here said it was.

Sometimes people tend to wreak havoc on a release based on screen caps (that are usually inaccurate) and have a field day here trashing it. and I feel that HTF is going down the drain.

This was the case with BEN-HUR and THE WIZARD OF OZ, where both releases were truly magnificent, but pre-release, there was a virtually orgy of bashing going on here on the forum, from many who were uneducated to the background of either film, only to have several members back pedal later, admitting they were wrong...

..and I salute anyone that has the integrity to say "Whoops, I was wrong".

However, there will be no such comments about OKLAHOMA!. I doubt anyone who buys it will post here saying they think it's great. It's a botched job and an insult to an American landmark work.

Rodgers and Hammerstein Organization should pull back the rights and license them to companies like Paramount or Warner who seem to be the only studios in town who know how to do right by their films in terms of transfers. (Paramount's extras leave something to be desired, but their transfers usually are top flight)....WB is in a class by itself, but that's another story....

So, I'm glad I saw OKLAHOMA! before I bought it. I also saw bits of the new SOUND OF MUSIC (which was a big letdown as well...although not the insulting disaster that OKLAHOMA! is.

I'm glad I kept my original DVDs of these titles, because I ain't buyin' the new onss.

I would advise anyone reading this to stick with what you have. The old OKLAHOMA (despite lack of 16x9) is still much nicer to look at, and the old SOUND OF MUSIC is undoubtedly sharper and crisper.

Sad....:rolleyes

 

[Will Krupp]

I definitely agree with your first sentiment Roger, but I would take a second look at SOM if I were you. The disc is not perfect, but on balance I think it bests the older issue on all but a few points (although I still wish the gazebo scenes had those strong five-star blues.)