Oklahoma And State Fair Arrive

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Joe Caps, Nov 8, 2005.

  1. Joe Caps

    Joe Caps Screenwriter

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    A local store got one copy today of each ofthese new titles and did't realize they were putting out new releases a week too early. I grabbed them and ran.
    A few, but not many negatives. Fox has coming up two musicals - Pin Up Girl and Weekend in Havana - for which they have some cut musical numbers, but they are not including them. Same Here - State Fair - 1946 has a reprise of a song by Dick Haymes, a little of which is seen in the Rodgers and Hammerstein, the sound of movies Doc. Wish Fox had included the entire number here.
    The new State Fair (46) looks no better or worse than before and sounds good in both fake stereo and mono.
    The 1962 State Fair - first release in widescreen, looks very good and sounds far better than I have ever heard it.
    Over the years, I have seen a few prints that have a very short exit music, the Fox chorus sings Its a grand NIght for singing. My old prerecord tape has it. I was sorry to see that there was not a chapter for exit music.
    I got a big surprise !! The film ends, then the exit music comes on, but for the first time in my experience with picture - an end cast where we see film of each star and who plays what!! I was never so shocked.
    A nice extra is a 30 min. doc on all versions of State Fair including the broadway adaptation.

    Oklahoma - the cinemascope version has been worked on and both picture and sound, compared to the old laser, have been improved out of recognition.
    Oklahoma - the Todd AO - frequently, ugly, soft to the point of looking out of focus. I'll save my old DVD for that one.
    can't wait to see the new Sound of Music next week for the new extras.
     
  2. Paul Borges

    Paul Borges Stunt Coordinator

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    Do you mean that they used the same transfer for State Fair (45) as the old dvd?
     
  3. Joe Caps

    Joe Caps Screenwriter

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    no, the old transfer was fine and this one doesn't look too much different.
     
  4. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    I got Oklahoma! today and...

    Right from the first shot, I could tell what's wrong with it. Fox applied a massive amount of digital noise reduction. You can see during movie shots, textures simply smear around. The color is great, though.

    I doubt it'll happen, but Fox needs to recall the 2nd disc as soon as possible and replace the DVNR-ed video master without it. Honestly, they could at least get Lowry Digital Images to work on it if they need to clear up grain and dirt. At least their process doesn't turn every texture into sludge.

    Literally, it looks like someone held up a transparent sheet of sandpaper over the lens... you see a grain texture, but it never moves!

    I will give Fox a complement for transfering the two Todd-AO shorts in 16x9, although they seem to suffer from the same overload of DVNR. The two trailers, both from re-releases, look awful... and the longer one is incorrectly encoded 16x9 when it's 4x3 video.


    The CinemaScope version looks amazing. Almost as great as 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea's DVD transfer. However, it has a little bit of edge enhancement... which wasn't added to the Todd-AO version!
     
  5. Mark B

    Mark B Supporting Actor

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    Is anyone viewing Oklahoma! on a regular old 27" TV, or does everyone use HD and projetion set-ups?
     
  6. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    Obviously not the same frames, but this shows how bad the DVNR is on the Todd-AO version...

    Todd-AO (65mm):

    [​IMG]

    CinemaScope (anamorphic 35mm):

    [​IMG]

    For further comparison, here's a screenshot from Around the World in 80 Days (filmed in 65mm like Oklahoma's Todd-AO version, though the WHV DVD is seemingly from a special 35mm anamorphic reduction, like My Fair Lady), handled by Warner Home Video:

    [​IMG]

    80 Days is supposed to be a film that was (or may still be) near oblivion. Yet Oklahoma's negative is apparently printable and new 70mm print(s) are stunning. Fox does so well, this is shocking to see this kind of quality coming from them.

    Although, the sound on the Todd-AO version is nothing short of amazing. Like Warner's 5.1 mix for "80 Days", it keeps the directional sound, it's flawless in fidelity, and sizzling with power.
     
  7. Mark B

    Mark B Supporting Actor

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    Oy! I'm so disappointed. Time to storm the Fox gate with torches, tar, and feathers.....
     
  8. Tim Glover

    Tim Glover Lead Actor

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    Where can one read about the differences in the Todd AO and CinemaScope versions? Aspect ratio etc...
     
  9. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    www.widescreenmuseum.com

    The featurette on disc 2 features Mr. Hart, as well as his treasures: original Todd-AO bugeye lens and an original CinemaScope camera lens adapter.
     
  10. Tim Glover

    Tim Glover Lead Actor

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    Thanks so much Patrick! I thought about sending you a PM but figured you could just post it here. Again, thanks! [​IMG]
     
  11. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Screenwriter

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    Can anyone tell me if the 5.1 soundtrack on the new Todd-AO version is appreciably better than that found on the old dvd? I don't mind keeping the old dvd for the Todd-AO version (heavily flawed but sharp) but I'd hate to have the soundtrack on the "new and degraded" version be superior.

    Can anyone help?
     
  12. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Screenwriter

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    Scratch my last question, as the point is now moot. A local store had all three of these Anniversary releases on the shelves today (in massive quantities) so I snatched them up (thrilled since I have the day off tomorrow.)

    I couldn't wait and dived into OKLAHOMA first. The Todd-AO version is nothing less than disgusting. I really can't describe how awful it is. It's virtualy worthless and I will be using the old release to enjoy the 65mm version. Even with all of that dvd's distracting jitters, artifacts, lack of anamorphic enhancement and color differences, the brighter, sharper, and frankly more colorful image is still superior. I really can't understand or forgive how this could happen.

    The Cinemascope version is indeed sharper, but I still didn't find even that to be any great shakes as far as color fidelity and depth go.

    As for THE SOUND OF MUSIC, I spent most of the evening doing A/B comparisons (my ever patient better half was really sweet about it, as it's one of his favorite movies, but I suspect even he could have cheerfully sliced his own throat after about an hour of the back and forth) and I really must say that, for the most part, I like the new transfer.

    The lack of artificial sharpness and somewhat lightened image gives it a smoother, more film like feel, with more detail apparent. I also found there to be, surprisingly, more depth to the image than on the five star release (though I have no idea why I'm surprised). Unfortunately, I have to give a thumbs down to the less punchy colors. Most noticeable during the two gazebo scenes, the lack of the Five Star's rich and lustrous blues and turquoises is a much missed negative. I also prefer the look of the final confrontation in the Abbey in the Five Star release, finding the new one too pale and lacking the same dramatic impact.

    I haven't had a chance to look at STATE FAIR yet, and will save it until tomorrow (after all, poor Kevin can only take so much!!) :b
     
  13. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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    Patrick,

    as always your posts really help educate us all. THANKS for taking the time to post those screen caps and detail what you're seeing and hearing. Thanks especially for standing-up for the preservation of the original directional mix in the todd version. That's at least something Fox gets right more than many other studios.

    Will,

    You lucky dog. Now I'm tempted to go out and try to find these discs on the shelf somewhere at a B&M store. Ugh! My S.O. just "lets me do my thing" when I get DVDs like this and need to spend hours comparing them. Too bad so many of us live so far apart...we could have some fun gigs all geeking out together playing with these movies while our S.O.'s could form a support group to help each other get through since they'd never see any of us!

    [​IMG]
     
  14. TheLongshot

    TheLongshot Producer

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    Course, some S.O.s wouldn't mind from the fact that they like musicals. Course, you'd have to play a whole musical number, or else they'd get annoyed.

    I do want Oklahoma in my collection, but it doesn't sound like it is time yet for that...

    Jason
     
  15. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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    I'm tempted for the cinemascope version alone...but then again it's going to come out on Blu-ray...maybe with a new film-tape tansfer and the 65mm presentation done right!

    Does anyone know if the HD spec allows for 1080P 30 fps?

    Of course...they'll probably screw up the audio (something's got to go wrong to keep us buying the next and the next and next)...making us all try to sync our old DVD audio with the new HD image... [​IMG]
     
  16. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Screenwriter

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    I don't know that I'm allowed to say this, but lots of stores seem to be stocking these well ahead of street dates (some studios apparently send boxes without a specific laydown mentioned and some blue shirted employees--hint hint--put them out right away.)

    Now I'm not mentioning any names, mind you, but your best chance to buy these might be to check local stores. :b
     
  17. Joe Caps

    Joe Caps Screenwriter

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    the Oklahoma set has a wonderful background on Todd AO vs. Cinemascope. Very prominent is Martin Hart from Widescreen museum. I liked the computer demos showing how all these things work on a big screen
    I wish we could get someone to do a complete documenatary on Scope, Scope 55, Vistavision, Technirama and various types of stereo sound. - Robert Harris, where are you?

    Odditiy on both versions of Oklahoma. The opening scene after the intermission, Laurey and Jud on a buggy going to the social -in every print I've seen, thiw is day for night, the sun has almost gone down, and this is the way it looks on the old dvd - on both versions of the new one, its dytime arouned 1 p.m. fropm the angle of the sun, but this is wrong.
    When Shirley Jones and Rod steiger almost run into a train, the train has ALL ofd it's lights on and Juds buggy also has a light lit on it. Hmmmm.
     
  18. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    I think there's a way using interpolation. There's a silent being restored in HD that's using a type of interpolation allowing a slower speed (I think 20fps).
     
  19. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Screenwriter

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    Joe, I noticed the same thing! It's as if the engineer in charge of "Color correction" thought the darkened day-for-night frame was either a mistake or a ravage of time and "fixed" it.

    Not surprising really, when you consider what an all around debacle this release is. I know some people really like the Cinemascope version and I respect that, but it is shocking to me just how awful the Todd-AO version looks. It's just so sad.
     
  20. Joe Caps

    Joe Caps Screenwriter

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    Will, more than likely is that the neg or IP is day and it was printed as night to make the film.
    The fact that all of those lights are on should have given the transfer person a clue.
    All of Oklhoma (up to the wedding and final scenes) all takes place in one day. Now it looks like everyone cools off at Aunt Ellers, sings Many a New Day, then takes off for the party at high noon. Some community with nothing to do for the day.
    The scope is worth having because it looks and sounds far better than it ever did.
    The new Todd AO transfer is a real stinker. Were they drunk (or worse) when they transferred that ?
    Hope we don't get the same screwups when we get the rstored full length South Pacific next year.
     

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