NTSC/PAL question (1 Viewer)

[Vahan_Nisanain]

I seem to remember reading that filmed programs, when shown in PAL territories, will be effected by PAL Speed-Up, depending on what the stations are working with. If they're working with tape masters, the speed will be left alone. But if they're working with the original film elements, then they will be sped-up.

Is that true?

 

[AndyMcKinney]

I seem to remember reading that filmed programs, when shown in PAL territories, will be effected by PAL Speed-Up, depending on what the stations are working with. If they're working with tape masters, the speed will be left alone. But if they're working with the original film elements, then they will be sped-up.

Is that true?

If the tape master is a standards-conversion from an NTSC tape (i.e. the film elements were recorded onto NTSC, and that NTSC tape was then converted to PAL), then correct, there is no PAL speed-up.

If, however, the film elements are being converted directly onto a PAL source (without an NTSC tape in-between), then that resulting tape master will be sped-up.

It's a catch-22, really. Using the original film will (barring a poor print) yield better picture quality than a conversion from NTSC, but results in 4% sped-up audio.

Sometimes, though, the UK studios will invest in pitch-correction technology which allows them to use the film, but to "fix" the sound (I know this was done for some high-profile releases like either Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings), so I guess it's an over-simplification to say that all PAL releases sourced from film would be sped-up.

 

[Sumnernor]

I live in a PAL land and the PAL color system is better than the NTCS system mainly because PAL was developed later and learned from the mistakes of the NTSC, Most of the world has a form of PAL. I believe that Brasil has a funny mixtures of PAL and NTSC..
I Once bought a region 1 DVD and found that the time was the same as my region 2 DVD, I don't hear people complaining about NTSC sped.down here. One moderator says that the main problem is the conversion on the US side.

 

[KMR]

Sometimes, though, the UK studios will invest in pitch-correction technology which allows them to use the film, but to "fix" the sound (I know this was done for some high-profile releases like either Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings), so I guess it's an over-simplification to say that all PAL releases sourced from film would be sped-up.

There's a difference between speed and pitch. With the conversion to PAL, the speed of the audio must be increased, in order to keep in synch with the picture. But while audio speed-up normally results in an increase in pitch, pitch correction can be used to lower the pitch of the faster-speed audio, to match the pitch of the original speed audio. (So, the characters will be heard speaking in the original pitch, but just a tiny bit faster.)

 

[AndyMcKinney]

I live in a PAL land and the PAL color system is better than the NTCS system mainly because PAL was developed later and learned from the mistakes of the NTSC, Most of the world has a form of PAL. I believe that Brasil has a funny mixtures of PAL and NTSC..
I Once bought a region 1 DVD and found that the time was the same as my region 2 DVD, I don't hear people complaining about NTSC sped.down here. One moderator says that the main problem is the conversion on the US side.

Well, most people in PAL countries have multi-system TVs (and have done for years), so they won't have anywhere near the same issues that many people in the US do.

Yes, PAL is superior in resolution. The only downside is in the sound of 24fps film being sped-up to be able to synch to the 50hz frame rate of PAL.

You didn't hear of NTSC being sped-down because it region 1 NTSC discs of films are authored at the correct speed. The only way you'd get NTSC slow-down would be if you took 25fps film footage shot for UK television (which is rare) and slowed it down to 24fps (like was allegedly done on the worldwide blu-ray releases of the UK Life on Mars TV series).

 

[John Hermes]

In this day and age, there's no need for the pitch of sound to be higher with these PAL transfers. There is plenty of fine digital pitch-shifting hardware out there. All that needs to be done is run the audio through the hardware when the transfer is being made. The speed of the transfer will still be 4% faster, but the audio will sound at the correct pitch. It can also be done after the fact with NLE software.

 

[revgen]

Actually, there shouldn't be any processing of the audio at all. 25fps speed can be accomplished by simply using RFF frames in the MPEG-2 encode. The PAL video should be the same length as the NTSC video and the audio shouldn't be changed at all.

 

[Worth]

If the tape master is a standards-conversion from an NTSC tape (i.e. the film elements were recorded onto NTSC, and that NTSC tape was then converted to PAL), then correct, there is no PAL speed-up.
Using the original film will (barring a poor print) yield better picture quality than a conversion from NTSC, but results in 4% sped-up audio.

Sometimes, though, the UK studios will invest in pitch-correction technology which allows them to use the film, but to "fix" the sound (I know this was done for some high-profile releases like either Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings), so I guess it's an over-simplification to say that all PAL releases sourced from film would be sped-up.

The pitch-correction may make the sound seem more natural, but everything is still being sped up. The image is running at 25 frames-per-second instead of the correct 24, which results in some odd looking movement.

 

[John Hermes]

The pitch-correction may make the sound seem more natural, but everything is still being sped up. The image is running at 25 frames-per-second instead of the correct 24, which results in some odd looking movement.

I don't agree. The most noticeable thing with some PAL transfers is the sound . A 4% speed-up visually is a non-issue. Things have never appeared as going "too fast" to me. Maybe it's different with you.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

I don't agree. The most noticeable thing with some PAL transfers is the sound . A 4% speed-up visually is a non-issue. Things have never appeared as going "too fast" to me. Maybe it's different with you.

I'm with you. The pitch-shift is very noticeable to me, but the live-action isn't. It's not like the Hallmark Channel showings of Frasier where they speed-up the end credits. That is very noticeable. Vision speed-up with a telecine-to-PAL isn't, as I perceive it.

Of course, the mileage of others may vary (I've seen some people on internet forums claiming not to notice the 4% audio speedup).