HTF AFI 100 revote results (1 Viewer)

[Seth Paxton]

Please note that I spruced up the announcement post.
When I announce the next 10 I will post them in a similar fashion and remove the pix for the last 10. I will also keep an overall list at the bottom of course.
Also, my goal now is to announce the last 10 on Dec 14 right before the TTT opening and the holidays. That way people might actually give a shit about these announcements still.
This means that after this SAT I will be posting the updates roughly every 3-4 days.

 

[Adam_S]

For those like me that are interested, I found the list of bottom 25 and 25 additions that were voted on, it's on page 8 of the HTF challenge/revote thread
Personnally I'm depressed to see that Shawshank Redemption was not a replacement, I figured that it would be a given to be a replacement; but that's just me.
I also found out that there were 19 new films voted on and 6 films that fought back on:West Side Story
E.T.
M*A*S*H
Rocky
Bringing Up Baby
and Gold Rush
and fyi here's the 100 top films they then reordered, after determining the twentyfive to add back in. page 15
I wish I could have done this, if only there were more time... I've decided to starta petition for a 27 hour day (though I'll settle for 26).

 

[Allen Hirsch]

Adam-
I'm pretty sure Shawshank was NOT eligible, since we kept the same cutoff year that AFI used for its original 100. Shawshank was therefore too new to qualify. (It would have been on my list, for certain, if it had been eligible.)

 

[David Dennison]

Shawshank was eligible. It came out in 1994, the same year that Forrest Gump (no longer on our list) and Pulp Fiction came out. I think Fargo might be the most recent movie on the list.

 

[Seth Paxton]

The 5 films that just missed being put in the "revote" group from the addition side (25 adds, 25 removes = 50 films in the revote) were:

Once Upon a Time in the West
Shawshank Redemption
Blade Runner
Arsenic and Old Lace
Adventures of Robin Hood

in that order, and they were all within 1 voter of being on (if the voter had ranked them at or near the top of their list).

Of course, other films like Sullivan's Travels, Blazing Saddles, Greed, Day the Earth Stood Still, and White Heat were even lower on the list.

Everyone had their favs, they just weren't the same much of the time. For example, I would place all 4 other films that just missed on the list before Shawshank. I do think SR is good enough to be mentioned, just not a top 100 IMO.


BTW, I have been avoiding rehashing the stats from earlier in the process in this thread so that the focus and drama will be on this final vote. I'm not complaining about others doing it, just explaining why I didn't do it myself. I wasn't trying to ignore anyone by not linking back to it.

 

[Allen Hirsch]

Well, I'm sure I voted for SR, since it WAS eligible, but it was long enough ago I guess I just forgot. (And, long after the fact, convinced myself it wasn't there only because it was NOT eligible. ) In any event, I didn't let it discourage me from participating in the re-vote.

 

[Jason L.]

Was the movie Lone Star eligible? It came out in 1996, and I couldn't remember if films had to be before 1996 or 1996 and earlier.

 

[John Knowles]

Just a quick note:

Thanks to Seth again for keeping on top of all this. I enjoyed watching and revisiting the films plus seeing what everyone else thought. Like some, I found it very difficult to rank these films, especially in the top 20 or so--there are simply some films that for various reasons I have trouble ranking over another.

I was also pleased that I wasn't the only one who wanted Music Man ranked. As much as I like (like the broadway show/music helps here) My Fair Lady, I slightly prefer MM (some of it is sentimental though...).

I ranked Fargo low because of its newness: I'm just not sure, as much as I liked it, that I'm ready to name it to my top 100 as I think how we look at a film or any artform through the lens of time has an impact, IMHO. My opinon of this one might change though and I don't begrudge Fargo this recognition.

Ah, let's see....American Graffiti. I'll just say that I think that while it's the best thing Lucas has done and that I think it's good, I think it's a bit overrated and just doesn't do it for me. There are just too many other films I feel are more worthy.

Enough for now....until the next set.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Do to the sorry state of the availability of titles in central and eastern Kentucky, I was unable to not only participate in the revote, but even finish the challenge as well.

However, I would like to congratulate everybody, Seth Paxton especially, for bringing several wonderful films to my attention. I am so glad to have discovered new gems such as The Third Man, Annie Hall (yes, I've put my prejudices aside and discovered something wonderful), The Deer Hunter, and so forth.

Having said that, damnit Seth, where's the rest of the list? :p)

 

[Seth Paxton]

Let me also state that I didn't do the AFI challenge, that was Edwin based on someone else's idea (maybe Tino or someone IIRC). Also, almost all of the classic films suggested in the revote came from other participants and I was led to many great films myself. So the effort has already been rewarded.
2nd. The release of the next 10 is under contstruction as of now.

 

[Seth Paxton]

90-81 have been announced
One western actually improves from the AFI rank, so I guess we didn't diss the genre totally.
Two films that had been left off totally make appearances as well. I like both and was glad to see them put on.
Finally, we continue to respect comedy a bit more it seems, and a recent classic climbs a bit further up the ranks from it's AFI standings. Personally, I see it going much further than that in the next 10-20 years.
Take a look at this batch and get those comments in. I plan on getting 80-71 up late THR evening.

 

[David Dennison]

Thanks again Seth. Let's see those statistics (high, low, stdev, etc.) when you get a chance. My rankings of each are in parenthesis below. I will make some comments later.

90 Night of the Hunter (100)
89 The French Connection (88)
88 The Gold Rush (73)
87 A Streetcar Named Desire (98)
86 Silence of the Lambs (65)
85 The Searchers (83)
84 Cool Hand Luke (87)
83 Bringing Up Baby (62)
82 Network (66)
81 Pulp Fiction (50)

 

[george kaplan]

Just quickly (I'll expand this afternoon).
One of these matches my ranking exactly:
90 Night of the Hunter (my 90)
Two were ranked higher than I ranked them:
87 A Streetcar Named Desire (my 97)
85 The Searchers (my 99)
and seven of them (including all of the comedies) were ranked lower than I would have. I have to disagree with Seth about comedies starting to get respect on the list :frowning:
89 The French Connection (my 50)
86 Silence of the Lambs (my 57)
84 Cool Hand Luke (my 60)
83 Bringing Up Baby (my 37)
82 Network (my 72)
81 Pulp Fiction (my 76)
and surpassing Back to the Future and my most disvalued (so far), is
88 The Gold Rush (my 15) which dropped from AFI 74 to 88 despite my vote. Obviously some of you do not appreciate this film the way I do, and I trust everyone was evaluating the 1925 version, not the 1942 voiceover monstrosity.

 

[george kaplan]

OK, a few more thoughts about the films to give people ammunition to hurl at me.
Night of the Hunter - I just didn't like it. I thought Mitchum's acting was top-notch, but the either the story or the execution of the story wasn't very interesting to me. Hard to stay awake for this one (for me).
The French Connection - A great film. It doesn't even make my top 100 list (it's # 115), but of these 100 films, it's solidly in the middle.
Pulp Fiction & Network - both of these fall in my category of very well-done films that I liked watching once, but don't have repeatability for me. For me a film that can't inspire me to watch it a second time fails the 'great' test, no matter how good it was to watch once.
A Streetcar Named Desire - What can I say? Yech. I do not like anything about this film. The worst part was probably Vivien Leigh, who is possibly my least favorite actress of all time. She plays the same irritating, whiny, hysterical women in this film that she played in GWTW. I also, was less than impressed by Brando. Yes, his acting was a breakthrough of sorts, but his over the top emoting just grated on me. I thought he was much, much better in his more understated role in The Godfather.
Silence of the Lambs - A great film for which I really don't understand the low ranking, unless it's a backlash against a fairly recent film.
The Searchers - Nearly my least favorite western of all time. Another film which has no redeeming characteristics whatsoever for me. Wayne's acting is the worse I've ever seen in any of his films, and the story is boring, horribly written and borderline racist. This may not quite qualify as the worst western ever made, but it gets my vote as the most overrated, just by the fact that it even made this list, much less ended up ranked higher than Unforgiven! I know it's early, but so far this is the film ranked most higher than my own ranking.
Cool Hand Luke - another great film, with great acting, and a great story, which always seems to be slightly underrated around here for some reason. Perhaps someone can expound on why.
Bringing Up Baby - an excellent example of why I disagree with Seth about the comedies. A great movie in every way. I realize we ranked this a little higher than the AFI, but that speaks more to a flaw in the AFI list, IMO.
And finally,
The Gold Rush (1925) - This ranking is really depressing to me. By my count there are 4 silents on our list, and this ranks the lowest of the 4?!?! I'm sorry, but this is yet another fantastic example of the disrespect to comedies. I don't know where Sunrise ranks, but it's higher than The Gold Rush? Words fail me.
Billy Wilder was perhaps the best ever at putting comedy and drama together, but Chaplin was also a master of this and The Gold Rush is his best work. Very few films, silent or sound, really touch me, or bring me close to tears, but Chaplin's stand-up on New Year's Eve does. Keaton was funny, but he brought no real pathos to his films like Chaplin did.
I better not say anything more that I might regret.

 

[Seth Paxton]

George, something to keep in mind about Gold Rush is that it was the 3rd Chaplin film on the list. Our list will feature a Keaton film which the AFI list did not. Our list has BTTF on it, AFI did not. And Bringing Up Baby moved up from it's AFI position.
General, City Lights, Modern Times, Sunrise = 4 silents by my count. Certainly you have to appreciate the fate of Gold Rush over that of the DW Griffith works.
And I have no problem saying that I see Sunrise miles ahead of Gold Rush, so in that we must just disagree. I also think Modern Times and City Lights are much better than Gold Rush, as is The General (which is more straight comedy than GR by my account).
BUB is not the only Grant comedy on the list either.
Pulp Fiction is easily in my top 10 personal fav films. It is addictively rewatchable to me, both for it's rhythmic dialog and it's wonderful cinematography. I find it to be flawless filmmaking.
Hey, but we do agree on Cool Hand Luke. I'm happy with its rank (no need to go higher), but really happy that it actually made it on the list. It's an incredible film and such a unique story. A very interesting exploration into anti-establishment ideals and the lone rebel. I think it takes an angle on the subject that is very anti-Hollywood (which was a trend of the era of course).
"Stop feeding off me" Great line, great moment. At least Guns and Roses gave the film it's props.

 

[Brian E]

My rankings for this part of the list.

90 Night of the Hunter (87)
89 The French Connection (80)
88 The Gold Rush (61)
87 A Streetcar Named Desire (54)
86 Silence of the Lambs (49)
85 The Searchers (33)
84 Cool Hand Luke (93)
83 Bringing Up Baby (73)
82 Network (67)
81 Pulp Fiction (83)

 

[george kaplan]

Seth,

Are you certain City Lights made it to our final 100? It's not on the list that I thought was my votes, but I've got 8 million excel files, so I could be looking at wrong one. :b

 

[Allen Hirsch]

My rankings:
90 Night of the Hunter (88)
89 The French Connection (35)
88 The Gold Rush (13)
87 A Streetcar Named Desire (95)
86 Silence of the Lambs (69)
85 The Searchers (82)
84 Cool Hand Luke (49)
83 Bringing Up Baby (86)
82 Network (76)
81 Pulp Fiction (90)

Maybe it's because The Gold Rush was the first of Chaplin's 3 silents that I saw on this list, or I was fascinated by the use of the Tahoe location that I know well now - this just resonated much more with me than his other 2, and I had it VERY highly-rated, as you see above.

Others have already spoken for/about Cool Hand Luke and The French Connection, which are the 2 other films from this grouping that I had much higher. The rest I can't quibble about, since my rankings are quite close.

 

[Evan Case]

Let us see here...
Night of the Hunter ended at #60 on my list and Mitchum is the primary reason, along with some gloriously eerie photography. Several sequences will remain etched in my mind for eternity.
French Connection I'm less enthusiastic about, it reaching only #94 for me. It's not without merit, but the whole production has a kind of grungy, shot and acted by the seat of the pants type feel that never really works for me. Little in the film (save the justly praised chase sequence) strikes me as anything I either haven't seen or have any inherent interest in.
The Gold Rush I had at 51, even though I genuinely love it and would certainly rate it as a four star film. Its only problem is that there are 50 other films I like even more ahead of it (including, on this list, two Chaplins, a Keaton, and yes George, Sunrise). City Lights is Chaplin's ultimate masterpiece in my mind, not The Gold Rush.
Streetcar was at 93, and I'm not entirely sure what to make of my feelings for the film. I can't fault the acting (even Leigh), I know that. Perhaps it's just a case of the film being to "stagebound" (but then, there are plenty of stagebound films I cherish). I just don't know. To use a cliche, "it didn't work for me."
Silence of the Lambs I had #70. Never an out-and-out favorite of mine, but I proudly own the Criterion DVD and can still be readily chilled by Hopkins' performance (enhanced by some brilliant use of close-ups). A worthy, if unusual, Oscar-winner and AFI film.
The Searchers I had slightly above at #80. I do believe it's among Wayne's finest few hours (Red River and The Quiet Man are among the others), and the photography is magnificent. Additionally, I still rank the initial Indian ambush on the Homestead as one of cinema's most frightening scenes. Yet I do have problems--I don't think the action scenes are staged as well as Ford often proved capable; also some of the supporting turns blow my mind with how poor they are, especially the bald feeble-minded guy (sorry, don't feel like checking IMDB for the name--I'm sure you'll know who I'm talking about) and Jeffery Hunter's Indian "wife." These conspire to undermine what I find to otherwise be among the most psychologically complex westerns.
Cool Hand Luke I had at 84. A lot to love about it though. My only problem was that I felt I was kept at a bit of a distance from Paul Newman's predicament. This could be purposeful, though--sort of a story told from the perspective of his fellow inmates and his incarcerators, rather than Newman himself. It also suffers a bit dramatically in comparison to I Am a Fugitive From a Chain Gang.
Bringing Up Baby I had quite high at 47, and for pure laughs this is about as good as it gets. Probably my favorite work from both Hepburn and Grant, who are both as charmingly loopy and incompatibly perfect together as one can imagine. Even those rare times when sapitude threatens, it's quickly undercut by some next bit of insanity. A great, great film.
Network improved substantially from my first viewing about six or seven years ago, up to #72 for me. Every performance is superb and the humor extremely biting and relevant. Indeed the only things keeping it from rising higher are its tendency to lose characters in the shuffle of activity (some majors disappearing for 25+ minutes at a time), and an ending that, even as satire, just doesn't ring as believable to me. Yes, I know the whole film is over-the-top, but the final scene just crossed into pure fantasy for me.
Pulp Fiction I had way down at #96. It's reasonably well-made, and certainly well-acted (kudos particularly to Samuel L. Jackson), but I just don't see the substance. A lot of it just seems content to recycle bits and pieces of pop-culture into witty, but ultimately pointless stretches of dialogue. I guess a criticism like that is odd considering I'm a big Seinfeld fan. Perhaps it has something to do with the appeal (or lack thereof) of the characters. I don't care if Bruce Willis gets his watch (and the story that sets up why we/he'd care is basically a rather long fart joke); I don't care if Uma Thurman ODs; I don't much care if Ving Rhames is left to the mercies of the gun shop guy and his gimp. In short, I don't care. Perhaps if the film wasn't so completely built up out of useless pop-culture triviality, I might. (That should get the ball rolling. )
Evan

 

[george kaplan]

Seth,
I tried to track down the list in the original thread, and I think there was some confusion about City Lights and The Exorcist.
I sent you my list very early, and the copy I have has the Exorcist, but not City Lights. I honestly don't remember if I sent you a correct list or not, but if so I don't have a copy of it.
If I never did, then obviously my list is somewhat flawed, but c'est la vie. If I did, could you tell me where I ranked City Lights?
Thanks.