Seth Paxton
Senior HTF Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 1998
- Messages
- 7,585
Okay, here it is. The place to start hashing out the problems and ideas that we will be facing as we try to come up with a fair and reasonable way to alter the AFI 100 list to make an HTF version.
This thread is for AFI 100 Challenge competitors only, although you need not be finished to participate. This is NOT the revote by any means. This is where we decide how we plan to do such a thing.
Here are some issues at hand...
What qualifications do the films need to meet?
Well, this is the AFI Challenge. Edwin and I have already discussed this issue and I think we are in strong agreement that this should still be American films only. This is not the Sight and Sound challenge or the BFI or something. The world is full of great films, maybe the greatest, but we have to stick to something we can handle and that fits with the challenge.
Saying that, what DOES make a film American? I think Kwai and LoA might be removable as not being American films. Maybe Holden's presence in Kwai is enough. Honestly, I don't know. I guess we want to refer to the AFI's guidelines, but this is a chance to fix/remove things that we don't think should be on an AFI 100 list which includes "non-American" films.
What merits should a film have to make the list?
Again, this has been discussed a bit already in the challenge thread among other places. I suggest we start by referring to the AFI page, but we don't have to hold to that completely. We should kick around our ideas, but we should have the criteria solidified before any voting starts to happen.
Historical perspective both in film and society might be considered, innovation might be considered, box office might have some weight, certainly overall film quality will be an important part. There is no "right" combo of these and other qualities, so please discuss. We just want to get everyone on the same page regarding the qualities that OUR list will have. We are "fixing" the AFI's approach, not necessarily holding to it 100% unless we choose to.
How will we revote this list?
Well, this is tricky. My suggestion has been all along that we first vote on a bottom 25 (or 20, something like that). We remove those 25 after totaling everyone's votes. This could be 1 point for each vote, or weighted by it's place on someone's list. I honestly don't know which would be better.
25 is because if it is less then a few "bad" picks might be left on simply because we didn't take enough off. But any more than that and we might find ourselves with too much to undertake. Plus, we should give some consideration to what the AFI already did.
Then we would suggest 25-40 ALTERNATES. Again we would total these up. At this point it would seem that we would have to enforce a rule that all these alternates be seen by everyone as well.
Then we take the alternates AND the films voted off and vote for 25 to be added to the 75 survivors. That means that we could end up with the original 100.
Once we have the 100, we revote the whole list. We could do this all at once, or perhaps in some dramatic fashion like voting for 91-100 first and posting results, etc etc for a week or 2 straight.
What can we do now to speed up the process?
Edwin and I have come to the conclusion that there is still a hella lot of work left here for those willing to try. Remember this is the payoff for working so hard to see all those films, a chance to make some knowledgable choices.
Here are my 2 suggestions.
1) If you have less than 25 to go, start picking your 25. Make sure the total of your films picked plus the number of films you have left to see is no greater than 25 (if that's the number we go with).
If we go only by total votes and not by weight, then we could start doing this right away. You could email me at [email protected] with a subject of AFI 100 vote and we could start getting a "remove" list put together.
If we go with weighted then you would need to be finished to have a final weighted list.
Either way, those finished could start working on this second part.
2) Start working on an alternate list. This could be open to all participants and we could vote very soon on this. Keep in mind that this list would mean MORE FILMS that need to be seen. But if this is where we are headed anyway then the sooner we get this list together the better.
I would suggest that if we start now that we should leave more alternate spots available (thus the 40). If we wait until the challenge is up and have less time knock these others down we might want to keep the alternate list to 25 maybe, just enough to replace the films removed possibly.
Finally, like the challenge itself, the revote is mostly for fun although I guess it will sort of be a HTF top 100 American films list of a sort. We are counting on honesty in this. It's unfair to those that are putting out effort to see ALL the films and unfair to the films if you choose between films without having seen them all.
Okay, the discussion has begun. Let's hear what you other AFI'ers think. These are only early guidelines and there is still plenty of time to establish a different method.
------------------
Greetings from the Humungus! The Lord Humungus!
The Warrior of the Wasteland!
The Ayatollah of Rock and Rollah!
[Edited last by Seth Paxton on November 17, 2001 at 12:14 AM]
This thread is for AFI 100 Challenge competitors only, although you need not be finished to participate. This is NOT the revote by any means. This is where we decide how we plan to do such a thing.
Here are some issues at hand...
What qualifications do the films need to meet?
Well, this is the AFI Challenge. Edwin and I have already discussed this issue and I think we are in strong agreement that this should still be American films only. This is not the Sight and Sound challenge or the BFI or something. The world is full of great films, maybe the greatest, but we have to stick to something we can handle and that fits with the challenge.
Saying that, what DOES make a film American? I think Kwai and LoA might be removable as not being American films. Maybe Holden's presence in Kwai is enough. Honestly, I don't know. I guess we want to refer to the AFI's guidelines, but this is a chance to fix/remove things that we don't think should be on an AFI 100 list which includes "non-American" films.
What merits should a film have to make the list?
Again, this has been discussed a bit already in the challenge thread among other places. I suggest we start by referring to the AFI page, but we don't have to hold to that completely. We should kick around our ideas, but we should have the criteria solidified before any voting starts to happen.
Historical perspective both in film and society might be considered, innovation might be considered, box office might have some weight, certainly overall film quality will be an important part. There is no "right" combo of these and other qualities, so please discuss. We just want to get everyone on the same page regarding the qualities that OUR list will have. We are "fixing" the AFI's approach, not necessarily holding to it 100% unless we choose to.
How will we revote this list?
Well, this is tricky. My suggestion has been all along that we first vote on a bottom 25 (or 20, something like that). We remove those 25 after totaling everyone's votes. This could be 1 point for each vote, or weighted by it's place on someone's list. I honestly don't know which would be better.
25 is because if it is less then a few "bad" picks might be left on simply because we didn't take enough off. But any more than that and we might find ourselves with too much to undertake. Plus, we should give some consideration to what the AFI already did.
Then we would suggest 25-40 ALTERNATES. Again we would total these up. At this point it would seem that we would have to enforce a rule that all these alternates be seen by everyone as well.
Then we take the alternates AND the films voted off and vote for 25 to be added to the 75 survivors. That means that we could end up with the original 100.
Once we have the 100, we revote the whole list. We could do this all at once, or perhaps in some dramatic fashion like voting for 91-100 first and posting results, etc etc for a week or 2 straight.
What can we do now to speed up the process?
Edwin and I have come to the conclusion that there is still a hella lot of work left here for those willing to try. Remember this is the payoff for working so hard to see all those films, a chance to make some knowledgable choices.
Here are my 2 suggestions.
1) If you have less than 25 to go, start picking your 25. Make sure the total of your films picked plus the number of films you have left to see is no greater than 25 (if that's the number we go with).
If we go only by total votes and not by weight, then we could start doing this right away. You could email me at [email protected] with a subject of AFI 100 vote and we could start getting a "remove" list put together.
If we go with weighted then you would need to be finished to have a final weighted list.
Either way, those finished could start working on this second part.
2) Start working on an alternate list. This could be open to all participants and we could vote very soon on this. Keep in mind that this list would mean MORE FILMS that need to be seen. But if this is where we are headed anyway then the sooner we get this list together the better.
I would suggest that if we start now that we should leave more alternate spots available (thus the 40). If we wait until the challenge is up and have less time knock these others down we might want to keep the alternate list to 25 maybe, just enough to replace the films removed possibly.
Finally, like the challenge itself, the revote is mostly for fun although I guess it will sort of be a HTF top 100 American films list of a sort. We are counting on honesty in this. It's unfair to those that are putting out effort to see ALL the films and unfair to the films if you choose between films without having seen them all.
Okay, the discussion has begun. Let's hear what you other AFI'ers think. These are only early guidelines and there is still plenty of time to establish a different method.
------------------
Greetings from the Humungus! The Lord Humungus!
The Warrior of the Wasteland!
The Ayatollah of Rock and Rollah!
[Edited last by Seth Paxton on November 17, 2001 at 12:14 AM]