Hollywood ruining film prints on purpose (those red dots you're seeing) (1 Viewer)

[MikeDeVincenzo]

Vickie

Your quest is a noble one, and the efforts of people like Robert Anthony are noble as well, no question. I just want to flesh out what the purpose of my original post was a bit more.

I just have my doubts about the abilities of we, a small and strange slice of the general public, to have any impact on the decision making of studio and theater chain executives, when profit is not simply the prime concern, but the ONLY concern that drives them. I could make some remarks here about negative consequences that arise from the choice we've made as a society to entrust an integral part of our cultural heritage to corporations, but I know the limits of debate around here.

I'll just conclude by saying that these brown spots are just another negative consequence of such a choice, and I have my doubts about our ability to have an impact on the decision making that's behind them. This is why I resort to sarcastic posts such as my first post in this thread. However, show me an online petition about this issue, and I'll gladly sign it. And I will make my friends aware of this issue.

PS Vickie

I just wanted to thank you for your recommendation of Happy Rhodes a while back. I've come to really enjoy her music. Why she hasn't gotten more attention, I don't know. Oh wait, those corporations again....

 

[Glenn Overholt]

What are they going to do when they find 'that' bootleg out there with NO dots on it! Oh, and no missing or altered (fixed up) frames, either. I have a feeling that the dots won't last long.

Going back to that 60 Minutes article, it was mentioned that employees do sneak them out.

Of course, we'll never hear from anyone about that. The dots will magically vanish - for our viewing pleasure.

I am hoping that when we see the dots we yell it out, and when the flick ends, tell everybody to complain about them.

Glenn

 

[StevenA]

I am hoping that when we see the dots we yell it out, and when the flick ends, tell everybody to complain about them.

Well, please don't yell out in the middle of ROTK (or any movie for that matter), but DEFINITELY complain afterwards.

 

[Nigel McN]

Out, out damn spot!

Best post of the thread.

The Pirates are well aware of the dots and it is relatively trivial to remove a frame or two from and encode.

I don't know if I could leave a film I paid for early, but I definately will make a point to complain if I see it in any more films over here.

 

[Clay-F]

I got a reply from my theater....Interesting.

**************************************************

Sir,

I am sorry you had a bad experience while visiting us here at Cinemark.
The dots
you speak of were caused by us. They are a result of a scratch on the
print. I
would like to offer you Rainchecks for you and the people in your
party. You
only need to trade them in at the box office for a ticket to any movie
we show
anytime. If you would please reply to this message with your name,
address and
the number of people in your paryty, I will mail them right out to you.

Again, please accept my apologies.
Ray Boyce
Manager


************************************************** *****

What do you think? I think its awesome that he's offering me tickets, but it worries me that he either doesnt understand the problem, or doesnt want to admitt it.

I'm thinking of emailing him back and asking him to watching during the storm sequence for these dots on a few of his screens. Does anyone know how long into the movie it is?

 

[Dan Rudolph]

What are they going to do when they find 'that' bootleg out there with NO dots on it! Oh, and no missing or altered (fixed up) frames, either. I have a feeling that the dots won't last long.

You know how much trouble it would be to track down and remove the dots? I doubt bootleggers will actually do this.

 

[Jesse Skeen]

Shittymark doesn't know what the hell they're doing- they cut the green bands off previews as Company Policy!

 

[John_Berger]

You know how much trouble it would be to track down and remove the dots? I doubt bootleggers willa ctually do this.

Wow. You're clearly someone who has never done video editing. Once the dots are identified as well as where they take place, it's a very simple process to isolate those frames and remove them. It might take some time, but unless the dots are every other second, I'm positive that the dots could be removed in only a few hours when their timecode is isolated. I've done the exact same thing for tape wear problems, and while inconvenient it is neither difficult nor immensely time consuming.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

they cut the green bands off previews as Company Policy!

Good for them - the green bands are ugly (and unnecessary) and disruptive to good showmanship.

 

[Dan Rudolph]

I suppose chopping out frames would be easy enough (assumign finding all the dots is easily doable), but then the studios would just put the marks in differrent frames on different prints, if they're not already doing so.

 

[Glenn Overholt]

I am sure that you clearly knew that I was referring to getting a copy of the print before any dots had been put on it.

Also, any bootlegger would be an idiot to leave the dots on, as they would trace it back to them. Ok, maybe that is just a maybe.

So, the bootleggers would have to remove them before putting them up, and thus - they wouldn't be there. Aren't the studios going back to square one with this?

It would have been better to discretly put a mark on a frame (like a scratch on a mailbox, or a different house number) and send them out that way. At least it wouldn't distract from watching the movie.

Maybe I should send them a picture of a pistol, and ask them to point it at their feet! I'd make sure to add some dots to it before I sent it out, of course!

Glenn

 

[Dan Rudolph]

If it showed up with no dots an no missing or altered frames, that would mean someone in the studio or in the print manufacturing house was the leak, which I think would narrow it down more than the dots.

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

If it showed up with no dots an no missing or altered frames, that would mean someone in the studio or in the print manufacturing house was the leak, which I think would narrow it down more than the dots.

Unless someone removed the dots. I doubt it would be too difficult to hide them - just borrow a small amount of pictures from adjacent frames and I would have thought they could be well hidden.

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

But of course, the problem is finding them. Removal of the frame(s) is simple- but when you have a pattern that flashes for one frame in an undetermined area of the screen, for a undetermined number of times-- i would say it would probably be tough to be sure you got them all.

120 minute film, 172,800 film frames to check- maybe 8-10 instances of the dots (guessing, who knows)-- like finding a needle in a haystack.

In addition- in a bootleg "business" where the rush it to get dupes on the street before your competitors do, how good do you think the pass is going to be? I would say it would take AT LEAST a day of work to even be 80% sure you got all the offending frames. I would imagine in a market like that, a delay of 2-3 days in getting boots out would mean a resonable loss of profit.

 

[Qui-Gon John]

OK guys, one thing to think about, and I don't think anyone has mentioned yet. Let's say a bootlegger video records the movie at a showing at his favorite local movie house and makes 1000 copies on DVD and sells them. And let's say he doesn't bother trying to remove the dots at all. Now let's say the studios find out about him and by viewing the bootleg he made, determine which theater it was shown in, and maybe even which print.

Now:

1. Can the theater say they only ever showed that print in auditorium #X, every time they showed it?

2. Even if they did, just how many people do you think viewed the movie in that auditorium by the time the studio gets involved to this point? And it's not like each and every person who attends a movie has to produce their ID and have their name and personal info recorded. How the heck can the possibly find out who made the bootleg based on this information.


So it seems that knowing which theater/auditorium was the source of the bootleg does VERY LITTLE to track down the culprit. So what's the point?

 

[CharlesD]

I think the point is (from the Studio's point of view) is that they can threaten theaters that if bootlegs are produced in one of their rooms, they will not let them have future films. The idea being that the threat of loosing out on the next big blockbuster will induce the theater to try and prevent the bootleg from being made in the first place. Maybe they could monitor the audience with night vision equipment or something. Or maybe they'll just make going to see a movie so unpleasant that no-one will show up anymore.

As far as the bootlegs go, I would argue that they are creating a NEW potential market for bootlegs where at least the most distracting dots are removed. You won't have to painstakingly examine every frame of Master And Commander for instance to find four or five blatantly obvious uses of these damn things. If these things DO make on to the DVD there is an instant market of people who have never even given a thought to bootleg DVDs now lining up to get the DVD without the (at least) most obvious dots.

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

As mentioned on the previous page:

1) For bootlegs hitting the street BEFORE the official theatrical release date- it obviously indicates inside piracy- and tracking the theater for the source would be a key element in cracking down on this type of piracy.

I know a local theater manager who holds private Wed/Thur screenings of new releases for the staff of the theater- sometimes a week before actual release. It would be just as easy for someone to be running the prints and putting up a camera as it would be for them to exhibit for the staff. Once they have a capture, they sell a boot master for replication- make a couple hundred bucks with very minimal effort.

Point being, in many cases the pirates are getting captures (either via camera or even telecine) of the materials before the print is shown officially in theaters. For years there has been endless debate as to the source of these leaks (trailer houses? screeners? press screenings?) Tracking down the ACTUAL sources for these specific leaks cases would be helpful to making any attempt to close them.

2) Just like the CAPS code before it- getting an idea of the source of bootlegs helps lead to bootleggers. Chances are good that the majority of film boots are coming from the same basic people-- If 4 major theatrical releases end up on the net or on the street, and all came from prints showing in the same theater, or the same basic geographic area- then you can concentrate there.

People sneaking cameras into the shows know the theaters where it is easiest to get away with- and stick with those screens. If the boots being released are concentrated to one theater or a couple theaters in one city- it absolutely makes it easier to catch the person(s) responsible... without necessarily "punishing" the theaters.


The original CAPS code lead to the arrest and conviction of dozens of bootleggers, according to figures I've seen. I don't like to see these measures taken- but I'd be a fool to say I didn't understand what they were hoping to achieve.

I understand what they're trying for, I just don't agree with the methods.

-Vince

 

[Qui-Gon John]

Sorry Vince. Guess I am just a fool, since I did not get how they were going to use this to stop bootlegs. I guess because I thought the intent was, just from the codes, they could somehow identify the individual bootlegger(s). Your post makes it clearer how they could be used to narrow the source down to a handful of specific theaters. But, if the theaters themselves aren't involved in stealing copies of the prints, I still don't think it will help too much.

The best defense against bootleg copies is high quality, reasonably priced DVD's available to whoever wants them. Why pay $10 for a crappy bootleg if you can pay $12 for a pristine quality special edition?

 

[Lew Crippen]

The best defense against bootleg copies is high quality, reasonably priced DVD's available to whoever wants them. Why pay $10 for a crappy bootleg if you can pay $12 for a pristine quality special edition?

Actually I think that this is an issue of timing, not one of price. For example, it will be quite a while before The Return of the King is available on DVD. The bootlegs will hit the market probably by the next weekend after the film opens, if not before.

I don’t think that too many people will be buying the bootlegs after New Line releases their DVDs.

 

[Francois Caron]

What if a bootlegger substitutes the dots from their own video capture with another theater's dots? The MPAA would end up accusing the wrong theater of bootlegging.

Just a thought.